Or stay put

(03-13-2018 08:42 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But who else is really out there to reload with besides Seattle?

GCU has the diploma mill reputation and vast resources, neither set well with small Catholics.

Cal Baptist is an unproven program with a much different theological background than most of the WCC.

Denver is intriguing as an option but I think they are comfortable where they are and like having their hockey rivals in Olympic sports.

Outside of that you're bringing in NMSU (football aspirations) or Utah Valley (former community college).

It's slim pickings once you get past Seattle; I don't think GCU ever enters the conversation, Cal Baptist has too many question marks, and a non-D1 like APU carries too much baggage. I think you're hoping to add Seattle and see if BYU misses its chance at a chair when the music stops a la UConn. If BYU leaves and you want to get to 10, it's Denver or bust, IMO, even though they are nonsectarian.

Who is on deck after that who fits the mold of the conference? If you're looking for a Catholic school to match the general profile of the league... gosh, you're probably going for somebody like Chaminade? They have zero interest in D1, but I can't think of any Catholic schools on the mainland who have much in the way of athletic tradition or ambition and aren't already in the WCC.

The WCC will be dealt a harsh blow by Gonzaga's departure, but it can endure and be competitive if BYU stays. If BYU (or worse but less likely, St. Mary's) leaves, they may just have to stand pat at 9 and deal with the scheduling headaches that come with it until the right fit presents itself - which could be a decade or longer.

(03-13-2018 08:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Fresno St. Alum,

BYU looks like they will be sticking around for a few years. And while BYU is in the league you can forget about SU. There will be a few others (SMC for sure) lining up with BYU on that.

I think SU fans have been running under the delusion that it was only GU keeping them out. That is wrong. It is their own dreadful athletic record, especially in Men's Basketball. What has changed from 2013 when they were passed over in favor of UOP? What makes you think the ADs of the California schools are any more in favor of SU today than then? It's not good enough to be Jesuit, there needs to be stronger links than that. I didn't find them on the boards of trustees. Father Sundborg's ties are all in the Northwest, while the California Presidents ties are largely with each other. This is not a situation where the President of Marquette was batting for Creighton where he served on their board of trustees. This is more like Saint Louis in this scenario where they are in the same Jesuit order, but they had no inside links.

SU doesn't bring much to the table. The big claim their fans are making is "we are Jesuit, and we'll be a 10th school" is not particularly appealing sales pitch. You guys need to flip your POV from that of SU advocate to that of the WCC skeptic.

Well no one does other than BYU and SMC(while that coach is around) Sounds like a good fit. So I'll hold out hope that Seattle gets in, not that they have anything to do with anything in my fandom. I just like to see conference movement. Yeah BYU stuck until 2021 or something?

(03-13-2018 11:05 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-13-2018 08:13 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Fresno St. Alum,

BYU looks like they will be sticking around for a few years. And while BYU is in the league you can forget about SU. There will be a few others (SMC for sure) lining up with BYU on that.

I think SU fans have been running under the delusion that it was only GU keeping them out. That is wrong. It is their own dreadful athletic record, especially in Men's Basketball. What has changed from 2013 when they were passed over in favor of UOP? What makes you think the ADs of the California schools are any more in favor of SU today than then? It's not good enough to be Jesuit, there needs to be stronger links than that. I didn't find them on the boards of trustees. Father Sundborg's ties are all in the Northwest, while the California Presidents ties are largely with each other. This is not a situation where the President of Marquette was batting for Creighton where he served on their board of trustees. This is more like Saint Louis in this scenario where they are in the same Jesuit order, but they had no inside links.

SU doesn't bring much to the table. The big claim their fans are making is "we are Jesuit, and we'll be a 10th school" is not particularly appealing sales pitch. You guys need to flip your POV from that of SU advocate to that of the WCC skeptic.

Well no one does other than BYU and SMC(while that coach is around) Sounds like a good fit. So I'll hold out hope that Seattle gets in, not that they have anything to do with anything in my fandom. I just like to see conference movement. Yeah BYU stuck until 2021 or something?

Gonzaga to the MWC may be the final move of the decade.

Gonzaga makes sense to pair with Hawaii football to get to 12. Im sure the mwc would jump to 14 with BYu and utep if byu we’re willing to jump. Not sure if the mwc would jump to 14 with UTEP and another Texas school. It would be dumb for the wcc to not bring in Seattle if Gonzaga left

UTEP and Rice are best options if they wish to expand to 14 ..BYU w/o Football creates odd scheduling issues .. Maybe Gonzaga , Rice and UTEP ... stop @ 14 ...and see what happens with BYU ...


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(03-13-2018 12:50 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Denver isn't getting into the MWC - ever. They suck and have no fans.

"They Suck" is a very harsh, and somewhat inaccurate assessment. Denver was 15-15 this year and third place in the Summit League, the second year under a new coaching staff. That's a mediocre record in a solid, 17th-ranked conference.

Head-to-head, DU did well against the MWC schools that would schedule the Pioneers. DU beat Wyoming (by 10) and San Jose State from the MWC and came within a basket of beating Air Force in the three MWC games played this year - 2-1 vs MWC. In most years, DU would likely be a mid-pack MWC team with the current level of recruits that they get. If they became a MWC member, their recruiting level would go up, and I think DU could be very competitive in short order.

DU has a $35 million sports budget without football, which would be mid-mid pack in the MWC already and spends $3 million a year on basketball, and facilities are all excellent and under 18 years old.

As for fans, it's chicken and egg. Right now, playing Summit league teams with a mediocre record is not going to be a big draw here. That said, DU has proven it can average 5,400 fans per game (as in 2012) when the team was winning 22 games per year, and that was playing mostly teams with no local recognition. If Denver were to be a MWC team, attendance would likely go up to 6,000-7,000 per game, and Denver area also has a strong base of fans from other MWC schools.

In short, Denver could bring a lot to the MWC table:
-Good location in league footprint
-Large Denver TV market (top 25) with large media presence
-Easy travel with low cost, direct flights (hub airport)
-Academic prestige (top 85 university)
-Attractive travel destination
-Nice newer facilities
-Strong budgets
-Strong MWC alumni area
-Top non football athletic department in America, with 33 NCAA D-I championships in history
-Most Olympic sports would be immediate contenders in the MWC

In short, Denver doesn't suck, and the fans would come if the Pioneers could schedule attractive MWC opponents.

(03-14-2018 09:29 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Gonzaga makes sense to pair with Hawaii football to get to 12. Im sure the mwc would jump to 14 with BYu and utep if byu we’re willing to jump. Not sure if the mwc would jump to 14 with UTEP and another Texas school. It would be dumb for the wcc to not bring in Seattle if Gonzaga left

That would be the best plan. The MW would only move to 14 if BYU came with football. Otherwise, we just stay at 12 w/Gonzaga.

And really, when you think about, BYU would have to bring a whole bunch more TV value than they do now to make-up for UTEP or whoever the #14 would be. Probably, it would be just breaking even financially if not a slight deficit for the whole MW. So really, while some fans and the reporters of the old MW/WAC guard that keep asking the question about BYU coming back, it wouldn't make that much more financial sense as well as scheduling sense to add them.

Any MW team that wants to schedule BYU in football or basketball can do so.

(03-14-2018 11:23 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 09:29 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Gonzaga makes sense to pair with Hawaii football to get to 12. Im sure the mwc would jump to 14 with BYu and utep if byu we’re willing to jump. Not sure if the mwc would jump to 14 with UTEP and another Texas school. It would be dumb for the wcc to not bring in Seattle if Gonzaga left

That would be the best plan. The MW would only move to 14 if BYU came with football. Otherwise, we just stay at 12 w/Gonzaga.

And really, when you think about, BYU would have to bring a whole bunch more TV value than they do now to make-up for UTEP or whoever the #14 would be. Probably, it would be just breaking even financially if not a slight deficit for the whole MW. So really, while some fans and the reporters of the old MW/WAC guard that keep asking the question about BYU coming back, it wouldn't make that much more financial sense as well as scheduling sense to add them.

Any MW team that wants to schedule BYU in football or basketball can do so.

Good point about making up for the cost of adding a 14th member. And then there are all the issues around BYU getting out of its current football game contracts. I really don’t see BYU landing in the MWC, there are too many complications.

In the end this is really just about adding Gonzaga to the MWC in the same way the AAC added Wichita State. It looks like it would be a win-win for both Gonzaga and the MWC so I think it will happen.

I like the idea of also adding U of Denver ... Excellent Academics .. Great Sports market .. right in the middle of MW ...Maybe Gonzaga , Denver .. One more ..??


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(03-14-2018 11:16 AM)puck swami Wrote:  

(03-13-2018 12:50 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Denver isn't getting into the MWC - ever. They suck and have no fans.

"They Suck" is a very harsh, and somewhat inaccurate assessment. Denver was 15-15 this year and third place in the Summit League, the second year under a new coaching staff. That's a mediocre record in a solid, 17th-ranked conference.

Head-to-head, DU did well against the MWC schools that would schedule the Pioneers. DU beat Wyoming (by 10) and San Jose State from the MWC and came within a basket of beating Air Force in the three MWC games played this year - 2-1 vs MWC. In most years, DU would likely be a mid-pack MWC team with the current level of recruits that they get. If they became a MWC member, their recruiting level would go up, and I think DU could be very competitive in short order.

DU has a $35 million sports budget without football, which would be mid-mid pack in the MWC already and spends $3 million a year on basketball, and facilities are all excellent and under 18 years old.

As for fans, it's chicken and egg. Right now, playing Summit league teams with a mediocre record is not going to be a big draw here. That said, DU has proven it can average 5,400 fans per game (as in 2012) when the team was winning 22 games per year, and that was playing mostly teams with no local recognition. If Denver were to be a MWC team, attendance would likely go up to 6,000-7,000 per game, and Denver area also has a strong base of fans from other MWC schools.

In short, Denver could bring a lot to the MWC table:
-Good location in league footprint
-Large Denver TV market (top 25) with large media presence
-Easy travel with low cost, direct flights (hub airport)
-Academic prestige (top 85 university)
-Attractive travel destination
-Nice newer facilities
-Strong budgets
-Strong MWC alumni area
-Top non football athletic department in America, with 33 NCAA D-I championships in history
-Most Olympic sports would be immediate contenders in the MWC

In short, Denver doesn't suck, and the fans would come if the Pioneers could schedule attractive MWC opponents.

Won't happen. MWC turned down DU with annual cash payments, what makes you think anything has changed? DU has a problem. Your strongest sports, hockey and LAX, no one cares about. Your soccer programs are solid, but again, no one really cares.

The MWC is a FB first conference that wants to strengthen their basketball to keep up with the AAC. The AAC adds Wichita, the MWC adds Gonzaga. Done. Re-alignment complete.

DU adds nothing to the MWC. The WCC is a possibility, but that would take a number of Pacific based schools showing interest in going east. Adding BYU in the Mountain Time Zone is one thing, it appeased Gonzaga, giving the league another strong program. What does DU offer the WCC but more travel. My guess, if you get an invite into the WCC it will include a large annual cash payment spread among members to cover the additional travel costs into the Mountain time zone.

(03-14-2018 11:47 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  I like the idea of also adding U of Denver ... Excellent Academics .. Great Sports market .. right in the middle of MW ...Maybe Gonzaga , Denver .. One more ..??


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Hahahahaha...You must hate the MWC now that you are out of it TCU fan....

DU to the WCC has more then a 50% chance. Hate to say that because as a UND fan was looking forward to rivalry games in more sports. DU-UND has an intensity that is not understood on this board.

If Gonzaga is gone, DU is the most natural travel partner of BYU. The WCC would be gaining national power in soccer and it doesn’t skimp on basketball. DU recruits a lot of students, not just athletes, from the West Coast, so the WCC is just a perfect conference for them from an academic viewpoint.

The WCC potential opening comes at the worst time for Seattle, as it won’t have access to Key Arena for a couple years, forcing it to play MBB at its tiny campus gym. See BYU strongly wanting DU in the WCC when the Zags leave.

(03-14-2018 12:16 PM)NoDak Wrote:  DU to the WCC has more then a 50% chance. Hate to say that because as a UND fan was looking forward to rivalry games in more sports. DU-UND has an intensity that is not understood on this board.

If Gonzaga is gone, DU is the most natural travel partner of BYU. The WCC would be gaining national power in soccer and it doesn’t skimp on basketball. DU recruits a lot of students, not just athletes, from the West Coast, so the WCC is just a perfect conference for them from an academic viewpoint.

The WCC potential opening comes at the worst time for Seattle, as it won’t have access to Key Arena for a couple years, forcing it to play MBB at its tiny campus gym. See BYU strongly wanting DU in the WCC when the Zags leave.

-10%

(03-14-2018 12:15 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 11:47 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  I like the idea of also adding U of Denver ... Excellent Academics .. Great Sports market .. right in the middle of MW ...Maybe Gonzaga , Denver .. One more ..??


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Hahahahaha...You must hate the MWC now that you are out of it TCU fan....

Still like the MW a lot ... Best travel destinations in the Country .... Big 12 .. pretty weak on good travel spots .. Austin , D/FW ..it gets pretty thin after that ..


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(03-14-2018 10:04 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  UTEP and Rice are best options if they wish to expand to 14 ..BYU w/o Football creates odd scheduling issues .. Maybe Gonzaga , Rice and UTEP ... stop @ 14 ...and see what happens with BYU ...


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So ESPN is going to give the MWC more money for UTEP and Rice football? Why would they do that or anyone else? The MWC is only adding members if they bring $$$ to the table. Does GU basketball? Sure. Does UTEP and Rice sports? Not at the moment.

(03-14-2018 10:04 AM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  UTEP and Rice are best options if they wish to expand to 14 ..BYU w/o Football creates odd scheduling issues .. Maybe Gonzaga , Rice and UTEP ... stop @ 14 ...and see what happens with BYU ...


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Some people just don't get it.

(03-14-2018 11:16 AM)puck swami Wrote:  

(03-13-2018 12:50 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  Denver isn't getting into the MWC - ever. They suck and have no fans.

"They Suck" is a very harsh, and somewhat inaccurate assessment. Denver was 15-15 this year and third place in the Summit League, the second year under a new coaching staff. That's a mediocre record in a solid, 17th-ranked conference.

Head-to-head, DU did well against the MWC schools that would schedule the Pioneers. DU beat Wyoming (by 10) and San Jose State from the MWC and came within a basket of beating Air Force in the three MWC games played this year - 2-1 vs MWC. In most years, DU would likely be a mid-pack MWC team with the current level of recruits that they get. If they became a MWC member, their recruiting level would go up, and I think DU could be very competitive in short order.

DU has a $35 million sports budget without football, which would be mid-mid pack in the MWC already and spends $3 million a year on basketball, and facilities are all excellent and under 18 years old.

As for fans, it's chicken and egg. Right now, playing Summit league teams with a mediocre record is not going to be a big draw here. That said, DU has proven it can average 5,400 fans per game (as in 2012) when the team was winning 22 games per year, and that was playing mostly teams with no local recognition. If Denver were to be a MWC team, attendance would likely go up to 6,000-7,000 per game, and Denver area also has a strong base of fans from other MWC schools.

In short, Denver could bring a lot to the MWC table:
-Good location in league footprint
-Large Denver TV market (top 25) with large media presence
-Easy travel with low cost, direct flights (hub airport)
-Academic prestige (top 85 university)
-Attractive travel destination
-Nice newer facilities
-Strong budgets
-Strong MWC alumni area
-Top non football athletic department in America, with 33 NCAA D-I championships in history
-Most Olympic sports would be immediate contenders in the MWC

In short, Denver doesn't suck, and the fans would come if the Pioneers could schedule attractive MWC opponents.

You guys didn't even draw over 2,000 for any home game this year and had 3 under 1,000.

Sorry, but the MWC is NEVER happening. The MWC already has the Denver market in Colorado St. They don't need DU. Nobody goes to your games, so nobody is watching them either.

Stick to lacrosse, hockey, and skiing.

(03-14-2018 09:29 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Gonzaga makes sense to pair with Hawaii football to get to 12. Im sure the mwc would jump to 14 with BYu and utep if byu we’re willing to jump. Not sure if the mwc would jump to 14 with UTEP and another Texas school. It would be dumb for the wcc to not bring in Seattle if Gonzaga left

I do not understand this obsession people have with the Mountain West and UTEP. Why, because it's in Texas? It's 45 miles away from New Mexico State; one can be in New Mexico from the geographic center of El Paso in 15 minutes if traffic is good. The way college sports fans think of Texas, UTEP might as well not be in Texas at all. NMSU would be an exponentially better addition that recruits virtually the same territory. It adds better quality and fan support to the basketball league, plus a rivalry with UNM that makes for excellent atmosphere and probably for much better viewing than UTEP vs. anybody currently in the conference.

The Mountain West is not a league that is obsessed with getting maximum TV exposure, as evidenced by their desire to have greater control over football kickoff times; they want atmosphere and fan engagement on the local level and the best quality product possible. Adding UTEP over NMSU - whether UNM wants to keep the Aggies out or not - is a short-sighted move that doesn't jive with the idea that the league wants to be more competitive in basketball. You're better off staying with 12 at that point.

Just saw this quote from Mark Few: "We’ve talked with a bunch of people, not just (the Mountain West). I guess this is just the one that leaked out. Were going to do what’s best for Gonzaga."

https://twitter.com/KREMEvan/status/973984569400545281