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(11-30-2017 10:41 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Connor Burchfield might be the best shooter in the country.

How's his defense?

(11-30-2017 10:29 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 09:20 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 09:14 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 08:06 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 06:58 AM)mac Wrote:  W&M scoring 114 points is sure more exciting then watching a 53-51 slugfest. There was a time when Sonny Allen was coaching ODU that we also put up 100 points many a game. And no three point shot either.

W&M shot 64% from three point land last night. That is flat out incredible skill. Most teams can't do that in warm ups.

Outside of a few teams, that is not college basketball anymore. Coaches understand that defense wins championships. I remember when Duke won when Greyson Allen was a freshman. They were 114th ranked defensive team in the country during the season. Everyone remembers the run they made in the NCAA Tournament that year...well...they were the number 1 defensive team in that NCAA Tournament. Defense wins, whether we want to admit it or not.

Defense wins in conjunction with offense. Teams that sacrifice offense at the alter of defense do not win championships.

Yes, and I didn't mean it to sound like you can win a championship with no offense.

I think we can all agree that you have to play solid defense to win big, but I guess reason your original comment doesn't sit well with me is that Duke, philosophically, could not be further away from the "defense wins championships philosophy". That is to say, K, especially in recent years, seems to take more of a defense is a work in progress, and the effort and understanding on that side of the ball will come eventually, because kids want to win. As long as K teaches defensive principles, I think he trusts that when the time comes bare down and do what is needed for a win, the kids will get it done. This year's Duke team is a perfect example. They play no defense for the first 30 minutes of every game, then when their asses are on the line they turn into a top notch defensive team. That is not good, but I imagine by tournament time, they will figure it out. This approach is nothing like the JJ approach that demands defense before you can even move on to anything else. I have always been a confidence first person when it comes to coaching, and believe that allowing poor performance as long as it is building toward something positive is more effective than trying to prevent mistakes by punishing them or even emphasizing them, and I think that is what K does.

Sorry for the meandering post got a lot more into philosophy than I intended.

Well I am pointing out facts of teams in the NCAA Tournament that raised the level of their defense by a large margin. That year Duke won it, they locked up in the tournament. K actually credited the defense as the reason they won.

At the risk of sounding like Giles...

"Since the KenPom ranking system was established in 2002, no team with a Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (AdjD) ranking of less than 21 has ever won the NCAA title."

"Aside from that 2009 UNC team, every other national championship team has had a KenPom AdjD rating of 15 or better. It's safe to say a team must have a strong defense to have a shot at winning the NCAA Tournament."

(11-30-2017 10:46 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:41 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Connor Burchfield might be the best shooter in the country.

How's his defense?

Probably terrible.

(11-30-2017 10:56 AM)757ODU Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like Giles...

"Since the KenPom ranking system was established in 2002, no team with a Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (AdjD) ranking of less than 21 has ever won the NCAA title."

"Aside from that 2009 UNC team, every other national championship team has had a KenPom AdjD rating of 15 or better. It's safe to say a team must have a strong defense to have a shot at winning the NCAA Tournament."

Yeah, Duke isn't going anywhere this year unless they significantly improve their defense.

(11-30-2017 10:41 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Connor Burchfield might be the best shooter in the country.

I’ve been following college hoops for I guess 30 years and that 09 UNC team was the best offensive team I’ve ever seen. Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington, and Danny Green could all light it up. If they did happen to miss, Tyler hansborough and Ed Davis rebounded everything and stuck it back in. They scored 90 on mich state in the title game and mich state was the best defensive team in the nation probably.

Unc team that won last year was very different. Very good defensively. Outrebounded everyone. Not a very strong shooting team. But great in the paint and great defending the paint.

(11-30-2017 11:17 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  I’ve been following college hoops for I guess 30 years and that 09 UNC team was the best offensive team I’ve ever seen.

They were also in the Top 20 on defense that year.

(11-30-2017 11:17 AM)The Nature Boy Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:41 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Connor Burchfield might be the best shooter in the country.

Can you explain what is funny about that?

(11-30-2017 11:15 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:56 AM)757ODU Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like Giles...

"Since the KenPom ranking system was established in 2002, no team with a Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (AdjD) ranking of less than 21 has ever won the NCAA title."

"Aside from that 2009 UNC team, every other national championship team has had a KenPom AdjD rating of 15 or better. It's safe to say a team must have a strong defense to have a shot at winning the NCAA Tournament."

Yeah, Duke isn't going anywhere this year unless they significantly improve their defense.

Nobody disagrees with that, the point is that they will improve it, and not by sitting MB3 and taking other measures that will effect their offense negatively.

(11-30-2017 11:37 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 11:15 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:56 AM)757ODU Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like Giles...

"Since the KenPom ranking system was established in 2002, no team with a Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (AdjD) ranking of less than 21 has ever won the NCAA title."

"Aside from that 2009 UNC team, every other national championship team has had a KenPom AdjD rating of 15 or better. It's safe to say a team must have a strong defense to have a shot at winning the NCAA Tournament."

Yeah, Duke isn't going anywhere this year unless they significantly improve their defense.

Nobody disagrees with that, the point is that they will improve it, and not by sitting MB3 and taking other measures that will effect their offense negatively.

There issues defensively aren't with Bagley, they are with Trent, Allen, and Duvall.

(11-30-2017 11:43 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 11:37 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 11:15 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 10:56 AM)757ODU Wrote:  At the risk of sounding like Giles...

"Since the KenPom ranking system was established in 2002, no team with a Adjusted Defensive Efficiency (AdjD) ranking of less than 21 has ever won the NCAA title."

"Aside from that 2009 UNC team, every other national championship team has had a KenPom AdjD rating of 15 or better. It's safe to say a team must have a strong defense to have a shot at winning the NCAA Tournament."

Yeah, Duke isn't going anywhere this year unless they significantly improve their defense.

Nobody disagrees with that, the point is that they will improve it, and not by sitting MB3 and taking other measures that will effect their offense negatively.

There issues defensively aren't with Bagley, they are with Trent, Allen, and Duvall.

Wow. You either really don't know what you are talking about or you have not watched Duke much. While Trent could be better, Grayson is easily their best defender and Duvall is decent. Their problem is the bigs do not rotate, do not defend the rim, and get caught out of position constantly. There is no help defense whatsoever, and Bagley often stands 3 feet away watching someone dunk with out so much as threatening to defend. Down the stretch of games, Bagley and Carter really step up their focus and do a much better job of helping and rotating, hence the late game domination every game, but they have been awful early in games.

Dukes defense with Allen in game is 7 points per 100 possessions worse than their average points per possession.

FWIW, Coach K wants them to guard the rim obviously, but he instructs them not to foul which is why they often have a higher FG% against at the rim, but less fouls.

(11-30-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Dukes defense with Allen in game is 7 points per 100 possessions worse than their average points per possession.

FWIW, Coach K wants them to guard the rim obviously, but he instructs them not to foul which is why they often have a higher FG% against at the rim, but less fouls.

This is ALL absurd, and tells me that you have not watched them play. First of all, Grayson plays damn near 40 minutes a game, so your stats for when he is not in the game are useless. Second, I am 100% certain that K is not telling his rim protectors to get the hell out of the way if someone drives the lane. Duke has traditionally done an excellent job of playing help defense, and I think this team will get there as well, but right now the help defense is awful for the first 30 minutes of every game.

(11-30-2017 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Dukes defense with Allen in game is 7 points per 100 possessions worse than their average points per possession.

FWIW, Coach K wants them to guard the rim obviously, but he instructs them not to foul which is why they often have a higher FG% against at the rim, but less fouls.

This is ALL absurd, and tells me that you have not watched them play. First of all, Grayson plays damn near 40 minutes a game, so your stats for when he is not in the game are useless. Second, I am 100% certain that K is not telling his rim protectors to get the hell out of the way if someone drives the lane. Duke has traditionally done an excellent job of playing help defense, and I think this team will get there as well, but right now the help defense is awful for the first 30 minutes of every game.

Allen has played 33 mins per game. If he played every minute, the defensive stats would be identical to his defensive stats.

Duke does not have great rim protectors. But, K emphasizes to them not to foul (not a ton of depth behind Bagley), which is why they have such low foul numbers (Bagley, for example).

Allen is a matador on defense. Claiming his anywhere close to being good is the most absurd thing in this thread.

Who gives AF about Duke?

(11-30-2017 04:07 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 03:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-30-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Dukes defense with Allen in game is 7 points per 100 possessions worse than their average points per possession.

FWIW, Coach K wants them to guard the rim obviously, but he instructs them not to foul which is why they often have a higher FG% against at the rim, but less fouls.

This is ALL absurd, and tells me that you have not watched them play. First of all, Grayson plays damn near 40 minutes a game, so your stats for when he is not in the game are useless. Second, I am 100% certain that K is not telling his rim protectors to get the hell out of the way if someone drives the lane. Duke has traditionally done an excellent job of playing help defense, and I think this team will get there as well, but right now the help defense is awful for the first 30 minutes of every game.

Allen has played 33 mins per game. If he played every minute, the defensive stats would be identical to his defensive stats.

Duke does not have great rim protectors. But, K emphasizes to them not to foul (not a ton of depth behind Bagley), which is why they have such low foul numbers (Bagley, for example).

Allen is a matador on defense. Claiming his anywhere close to being good is the most absurd thing in this thread.

Your stats are skewed as usual. Grayson has sat for a total of 6 minutes except in the Furman game, which is meaningless and the Texas game when he was in foul trouble late. The reality of the Texas game, is that most of his bench minutes were late due to the foul trouble, and the team, as I have mentioned, is markedly better defensively in the last 10 minutes of games. Also of note, but not found in your stats, is that Duke is MUCH better defensively in a zone. K doesn't play it as much is he could, presumably because he needs the guys to learn how to play man in these early season games. When Grayson is out, Duke has often switched to the zone, again skewing your numbers.

What?

29 mins vs. Elon
29 mins vs. Utah Valley
30 mins vs. Southern
28 mins vs. Furman
34 mins vs. Portland State
25 mins vs. Texas

Its like you can't except when there are numbers that tell you your eyes are wrong. hell, the scouting report even says Allen is not good on defense.

(11-30-2017 04:54 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  What?

29 mins vs. Elon
29 mins vs. Utah Valley
30 mins vs. Southern
28 mins vs. Furman
34 mins vs. Portland State
25 mins vs. Texas

Its like you can't except when there are numbers that tell you your eyes are wrong. hell, the scouting report even says Allen is not good on defense.

Apparently his defense consists of letting the opposing player drive by and then tripping him.

Matt Craig of The Athletic just posted his mid major top 25. We're not ranked in it (honorable mention) but Towson, MT, LT, VCU are;
https://theathletic.com/170675/2017/12/0...-bucknell/