(09-12-2017 02:37 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 01:33 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  again..our fees are below the national average for D1 - $1,366 compared to mean of $1,700 ...

there probably is some fat we can trim... there probably are ways to do more with the $47M ... but we are not ravaging children or their parents pocketbooks here

Dude, you are wrong. You have incorrectly equated "mandatory student fees" to athletic fees. But if you check out the actual source you will see they are talking all fees and provide a few examples...

Quote:The parade of fees on college campuses never seems to end. There are extra charges to start college, such as orientation fees and freshman fees, and extra charges to finish, such as senior fees and commencement fees. There are nickel-and-dime fees, like $8.50 at Indiana University to drop a class after two days, and large ones, like $3,049 to major in digital media and animation at Alfred State College, State University of New York.

In the case of JMU these "mandatory student fees" include a $96 internet connection fee and a $180 orientation fees and others. Comparing our athletic fee to a mandatory fee isn't applicable. The number you wanted to compare to that $1,700 was actually $4,256 (as of Jan '15). http://www.breezejmu.org/sports/general-...e8d06.html

All you had to do was click the link and read two sentences.

You can't compare TOTAL fees to Athletics fees ..... JMU is $1,366 for athletics fees, compared to $1,700 nationally for athletic fees

Total fees? don't know the national average - trying to keep this apples to apples

JMU is bargain

Fees:

Wow! Let me lay it out for you:

Mandatory Student Fee:
JMU: 4,628 (source you provided, jmu.edu)
Average: 1,700 (source you provided, forbes)

Athletic Fee (a component of the 'Mandatory Student Fee'):
JMU: 1,336 (source you provided, jmu.edu)
Average: ? (don't know)

AGAIN, the $1,700 in the Forbes article incorrectly implies that $1,700 is for athletics when it is for EVERYTHING. The actual source, aka the one linked in the Forbes article, doesn't ever mention 'athletic' or 'sports'. It is an article about ALL fees not just ATHLETIC fees. I provided you examples of the fees that they have included in my previous post.

EDIT: I cannot get the link to work. Perhaps it realizes I'm arguing with a brick wall so just open the Forbes article and click the link.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/
education/edlife/those-hidden-college-fees.html?_r=0

Let's also just remember that other states allow certain line items to be booked under tuition. In Virginia, you can not do that. Every thing not 100% dedicated to instruction is broken out as a separate fee.

So really, comparing ANY fees to schools outside of Va is a fool's errand.

Best gauge is still total cost to attend.

In the Commonwealth, we should be no worse than middle of the road, tuition-wise. Even at that, we'd still be a bargain. I would imagine that would allow us to pay our professors more so they won't leave for greener pastures. Just my 2 cents.

DDD - breathe man....breathe... that $1,700 number was unclear /implied atheltics....now that i re-read all the way to source, I get it.

happy and able to eat crow - no big deal

Total cost - all that REALLY matters...JMU is a heck of a deal

(09-12-2017 12:07 PM)Potomac Wrote:  Yeah, people see the total dollar amount and say, "oh my god, how dare they!". They don't bother to do the math and see that isn't not even as expensive per student as other universities at the D1 level and those schools are doing a whole lot less with their athletic buck too.

A lot of message board critics fail to point out that JMU has over 21k students enrolled. They think we're a 6k or 10k school just because we're not in the P5.

Any chance can you provide a source for that information? I fully understand that each state/school is a little different but I mean come on, I couldn't find a single school with a higher amount per student.

First source isn't perfect as it uses 5 years (2010-2014) of student fees, and I'm using more recent student population. With that said, it isn't even close.
http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/proje...scorecards

JMU: 145M subsidy, 21.3k students, $1,369 per student per year

The schools below average $796 per student per year.
W&M: 58.9M, 8.6k, $1,369
Eastern Michigan: 120.8M, 21.6k, $1,118
ODU: 131.9M, 24.9k, $1,059
Middle Tenn: 95.5, 19.6k, $974
Bowling Green: 70.3M, 16.9k, $831
Morehead: 43.7M, 10.6k, $824
Akron: 102.8M, 25.1k, $819
Stony Brook: 98.8M, 25.2k, $784
Buffalo: 110.5M, 29.8k, $741
Ball State: 80.2M, 21.9k, $732
EKU: 52.3M, 14.3k, $731
Central Michigan: 93.6M, 26.9k, $695
Ohio University: 99M, 29.2k, $678
Ga State: 104.7M, 32k, $654
App State: 50.2M, 18.3k, $548
Rutgers: 172M, 66k, $521
GA Southern: 46.8M, 20.5k, $456

So then I went to the trusty USA Today report that every loves. I filtered on the subsidy amount to get the highest fees first. So these are probably the highest of the highs. STILL not a single one is even close to JMU via this source (1.8k) or even the other source (1.4k).

JMU: 38.1M, 21.3k, $1,788
ODU: 28.7M, 24.9k, $1,152
UDel: 28.0M, 22.7k, $1,233
Umass: 34.4M, 28.6k, $1,202
Conn: 35.3M, 32k, $1,103
Stony Brook: 26.8M, 25.2k, $1063
Towson: 23.7M, 22.3k, $1,062
Rutgers: 28.6M, 66k, $433

(09-12-2017 05:23 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  DDD - breathe man....breathe... that $1,700 number was unclear /implied atheltics....now that i re-read all the way to source, I get it.

happy and able to eat crow - no big deal

Total cost - all that REALLY matters...JMU is a heck of a deal

Hey man, I'm good. Not sure why you feel like I need to breathe. I don't take it personal when you double (triple?) down on wrong information, even starting the second post with 'again..' Just seems like a bold strategy as you now admit you didn't even take the time to read the information before posting.

Implied? I agree. Unclear??? Ehhh, sure, but it didn't even begin to pass the common sense test.

Don't take it personal, I'm not. I love the dialogue. I love learning new stuff, especially about JMU and sports. Your Forbes article was new to me as well, as was the original source of the information, I enjoyed reading both.

Yup...civil discourse...right?..

We have yet to see all the averages - but im just not sure why they matter in the face of three facts:

1 JMU is a good deal on price no matter how we slice it, as we heard from more than one check-cutter here
2 low endowment is in effect, so we need student fees, or we dont fund all sports equally (or something else slips)
3 we still are not National..and our academic profile has dropped a bit

(09-12-2017 08:29 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  oh, and by the way, for those complaining about the student fees for athletics.....within and outside JMU.....tuition at just over $10,000 in-state.

that remains an incredible bargain for what the university provides as far as experience and education.

As one who has a child at JMU now, and another who recently graduated, I can attest to this. JMU remains a bargain, even when compared to other public institutions in Virginia.

OT for this thread but I think it's relevant. There's a Virginia pilot article today about how ODU has to trim over 800k from it's athletic budget due to enrollment declines they've experienced lately.

I believe many state universities are seeing some enrollment decline, as is typical when an economy is performing well. You have some high school graduates who are more willing to entertain entry level or trade jobs and forgo going to college.

(09-13-2017 07:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  OT for this thread but I think it's relevant. There's a Virginia pilot article today about how ODU has to trim over 800k from it's athletic budget due to enrollment declines they've experienced lately.

I believe many state universities are seeing some enrollment decline, as is typical when an economy is performing well. You have some high school graduates who are more willing to entertain entry level or trade jobs and forgo going to college.

This is a separate discussion, but the era of "college makes life better" is over.

Trade/vocational skills have to come back, and I believe they will.

(09-12-2017 10:51 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Yup...civil discourse...right?..

We have yet to see all the averages - but im just not sure why they matter in the face of three facts:

1 JMU is a good deal on price no matter how we slice it, as we heard from more than one check-cutter here
2 low endowment is in effect, so we need student fees, or we dont fund all sports equally (or something else slips)
3 we still are not National..and our academic profile has dropped a bit

Dude - Quit why you are behind. No we haven't seen all the averages but I looked at ~30 that would appear to be near ours (as the subsidy amount was high) and figured out the approximate per student amount. Not a single school was within striking distance except W&M.

They only matter in this thread because you brought them up using condensing tones and ALL CAPS and were wrong. Now that they don't fit your agenda, they don't matter and you pivot on to the next thing.

(09-12-2017 11:20 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  Agreed that regardless of the breakdown, JMU provides a GREAT ROI (I Kiplinger's does an ROI ranking where JMU receives ~ top 5 rating). But to use "the school already provides a great bargain" as an excuse (which you might not be doing) for high student student fees doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Looks like I was really outdated on the Kiplingers value rankings.
2011: JMU was 19th for public universities
2014: 22nd
2015: 34th
2016: 62nd

Given that CIS/COB is growing faster than the university as a whole (leading to higher starting salaries), and tuition has remained relatively flat, I wouldn't have expected JMU to drop.

http://www.kiplinger.com/article/college...-2017.html

Money Magazine had JMU as #46 school in the country (after looking at over 711).
http://time.com/money/best-colleges/rank...-colleges/

(09-13-2017 09:27 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:51 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  Yup...civil discourse...right?..

We have yet to see all the averages - but im just not sure why they matter in the face of three facts:

1 JMU is a good deal on price no matter how we slice it, as we heard from more than one check-cutter here
2 low endowment is in effect, so we need student fees, or we dont fund all sports equally (or something else slips)
3 we still are not National..and our academic profile has dropped a bit

Dude - Quit why you are behind. No we haven't seen all the averages but I looked at ~30 that would appear to be near ours (as the subsidy amount was high) and figured out the approximate per student amount. Not a single school was within striking distance except W&M.

They only matter in this thread because you brought them up using condensing tones and ALL CAPS and were wrong. Now that they don't fit your agenda, they don't matter and you pivot on to the next thing.

ha...AGAIN, breathe man... why are you making such a thing out of this? You're in a one-sided battle. no pivoting... those three statements hold true regardless of the split on fees / tuition - which was my original point. Go Dukes!

(09-13-2017 09:44 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  ha...AGAIN, breathe man... why are you making such a thing out of this? You're in a one-sided battle. no pivoting... those three statements hold true regardless of the split on fees / tuition - which was my original point. Go Dukes!

Making such a thing about making sure information presented is factual? I don't know, seems backwards to read something that is clearly incorrect on a message board and just ignore it. It is actually so common on this board that it has its own response, 'You just got BDK'ed.'

If you want a real laugh you should take a look at the ODU board on this subject. Total meltdown by some of the geniuses over there that have come to believe their FBS status has somehow elevated the university's academic profile. In truth, ODU is experiencing declining enrollments and applications, which in turn has caused an $800k+ budget cut to their athletic program, and a hit in the most recent USNWR rankings (they are even lower ranked than before).

ODU plays UNC-Chapel Hill this weekend in ODU's itty-bitty, worn-out stadium. I wonder if ODU will play a full 60 minutes this time. ;-)

(09-14-2017 12:45 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  If you want a real laugh you should take a look at the ODU board on this subject. Total meltdown by some of the geniuses over there that have come to believe their FBS status has somehow elevated the university's academic profile. In truth, ODU is experiencing declining enrollments and applications, which in turn has caused an $800k+ budget cut to their athletic program, and a hit in the most recent USNWR rankings (they are even lower ranked than before).

ODU plays UNC-Chapel Hill this weekend in ODU's itty-bitty, worn-out stadium. I wonder if ODU will play a full 60 minutes this time. ;-)

ODU is playing at home against North Carolina. Repeat, ODU is playing at home against North Carolina.

(09-14-2017 01:02 PM)Dadgum Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 12:45 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  If you want a real laugh you should take a look at the ODU board on this subject. Total meltdown by some of the geniuses over there that have come to believe their FBS status has somehow elevated the university's academic profile. In truth, ODU is experiencing declining enrollments and applications, which in turn has caused an $800k+ budget cut to their athletic program, and a hit in the most recent USNWR rankings (they are even lower ranked than before).

ODU plays UNC-Chapel Hill this weekend in ODU's itty-bitty, worn-out stadium. I wonder if ODU will play a full 60 minutes this time. ;-)

ODU is playing at home against North Carolina. Repeat, ODU is playing at home against North Carolina.

Yeah but let's be real UNC isn't REALLY ACC football. No way a top tier team would go there. "Tech is playing there." Yeah, but only for recruiting purposes. "Miami went to Boone." Dude, you don't know anything!

(09-14-2017 01:23 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 01:02 PM)Dadgum Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 12:45 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  If you want a real laugh you should take a look at the ODU board on this subject. Total meltdown by some of the geniuses over there that have come to believe their FBS status has somehow elevated the university's academic profile. In truth, ODU is experiencing declining enrollments and applications, which in turn has caused an $800k+ budget cut to their athletic program, and a hit in the most recent USNWR rankings (they are even lower ranked than before).

ODU plays UNC-Chapel Hill this weekend in ODU's itty-bitty, worn-out stadium. I wonder if ODU will play a full 60 minutes this time. ;-)

ODU is playing at home against North Carolina. Repeat, ODU is playing at home against North Carolina.

Yeah but let's be real UNC isn't REALLY ACC football. No way a top tier team would go there. "Tech is playing there." Yeah, but only for recruiting purposes. "Miami went to Boone." Dude, you don't know anything!

Oh, come on. Any of UNC / VT / Miami or similar schools playing at JMU would be epic compared to our schedule today, and we would have a shot at that. AAC schools would be great too. Even App St. and ODU would be instant sellouts. There might be some arguments against FBS, but scheduling is not one of them.

(09-14-2017 01:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 01:23 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 01:02 PM)Dadgum Wrote:  

(09-14-2017 12:45 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  If you want a real laugh you should take a look at the ODU board on this subject. Total meltdown by some of the geniuses over there that have come to believe their FBS status has somehow elevated the university's academic profile. In truth, ODU is experiencing declining enrollments and applications, which in turn has caused an $800k+ budget cut to their athletic program, and a hit in the most recent USNWR rankings (they are even lower ranked than before).

ODU plays UNC-Chapel Hill this weekend in ODU's itty-bitty, worn-out stadium. I wonder if ODU will play a full 60 minutes this time. ;-)

ODU is playing at home against North Carolina. Repeat, ODU is playing at home against North Carolina.

Yeah but let's be real UNC isn't REALLY ACC football. No way a top tier team would go there. "Tech is playing there." Yeah, but only for recruiting purposes. "Miami went to Boone." Dude, you don't know anything!

Oh, come on. Any of UNC / VT / Miami or similar schools playing at JMU would be epic compared to our schedule today, and we would have a shot at that. AAC schools would be great too. Even App St. and ODU would be instant sellouts. There might be some arguments against FBS, but scheduling is not one of them.

see the thread i just started on FBS scheduling.