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Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-11-2017 05:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:39 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's take another tack here guys.

Yesterday the markets reflected an entirely different reality to what Disney has proposed. CBNC analysts seem to think that in 2019 Disney will be the cable provider and streaming provider. Think about it. Right now DirectTV/ATT, Charter/Spectrum, WOW, and other cable providers are all reassessing everything. Disney announced that Netflix will not have any Disney programming to offer at the start of 2019. Disney is pulling it all back and they are going to provide their own package of Disney products & ESPN's offerings as an entity. Who knows? They may wind up offering other premium movie channels as part of the package.

What will happen is you won't have 400 channels where 1/3rd of them are shopping and advertising channels. Right now getting live sports is the leader that all of the other cable services pay to have so that they can make money off of the other crap channels that pay them to sell their stuff. Throw in TV rerun channels and add the various History / Geogrpahic /Smitsonian channels and that's your package. We if Disney pulls ESPN from those to launch their own the SEC and ACC stand to make even more because the middle man is cut out and Disney will be keeping all of the profits up front.

Such a package might not offer the PACN & BTN if they aren't with ESPN. Suddenly without ESPN to get the eyes for them they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. That's tremendous leverage for Disney.

But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

Now if the Big 10 does a reverse and divests itself from the BTN and goes with an ESPN held model of the BTN then those divisions of property could be quite different.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the SEC.
Notre Dame and West Virginia to the ACC.
Texas Tech, T.C.U., Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State to the AAC or PAC.

I think Disney wants to do a service similar to Netflix where prerecorded TV shows and movies and TV episodes can be viewed as soon as they are put up on the service. This works for Disney 's content as well as for their movies as I assume the sales of movies on DVD and bluray are dropping like CD's did a decade ago.

I don't see ESPN being solely accessible to only subscribers of this new service as it would cut out all those subscribtion fees from the providers. In another decade it might be feasible for everyone to watch high quality live sports and movies from their phones and TV's with almost guaranteed reliable service, but we are not quite there yet.

ESPN would be wise to keep the B1G and PAC games in that model. A 50% share to a 25% share on those top games would still require those fans to add that service to watch their team play. The SEC and ACC would still provide the bulk of the programming.

I think Disney will hike the fees for the cable providers to keep ESPN. It won't be exorbitant maybe a buck to a buck fifty. So from 7 and change to 9. They will now have the leverage to do it.

True. But we are also at a time where old cable tv companies might make more money off of internet service as opposed to providing tv channels. High speed internet providers will be taking in the cash; wireless companies trying to provide some of that service too.
08-11-2017 07:32 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-11-2017 07:32 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:39 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's take another tack here guys.

Yesterday the markets reflected an entirely different reality to what Disney has proposed. CBNC analysts seem to think that in 2019 Disney will be the cable provider and streaming provider. Think about it. Right now DirectTV/ATT, Charter/Spectrum, WOW, and other cable providers are all reassessing everything. Disney announced that Netflix will not have any Disney programming to offer at the start of 2019. Disney is pulling it all back and they are going to provide their own package of Disney products & ESPN's offerings as an entity. Who knows? They may wind up offering other premium movie channels as part of the package.

What will happen is you won't have 400 channels where 1/3rd of them are shopping and advertising channels. Right now getting live sports is the leader that all of the other cable services pay to have so that they can make money off of the other crap channels that pay them to sell their stuff. Throw in TV rerun channels and add the various History / Geogrpahic /Smitsonian channels and that's your package. We if Disney pulls ESPN from those to launch their own the SEC and ACC stand to make even more because the middle man is cut out and Disney will be keeping all of the profits up front.

Such a package might not offer the PACN & BTN if they aren't with ESPN. Suddenly without ESPN to get the eyes for them they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. That's tremendous leverage for Disney.

But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

Now if the Big 10 does a reverse and divests itself from the BTN and goes with an ESPN held model of the BTN then those divisions of property could be quite different.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the SEC.
Notre Dame and West Virginia to the ACC.
Texas Tech, T.C.U., Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State to the AAC or PAC.

I think Disney wants to do a service similar to Netflix where prerecorded TV shows and movies and TV episodes can be viewed as soon as they are put up on the service. This works for Disney 's content as well as for their movies as I assume the sales of movies on DVD and bluray are dropping like CD's did a decade ago.

I don't see ESPN being solely accessible to only subscribers of this new service as it would cut out all those subscribtion fees from the providers. In another decade it might be feasible for everyone to watch high quality live sports and movies from their phones and TV's with almost guaranteed reliable service, but we are not quite there yet.

ESPN would be wise to keep the B1G and PAC games in that model. A 50% share to a 25% share on those top games would still require those fans to add that service to watch their team play. The SEC and ACC would still provide the bulk of the programming.

I think Disney will hike the fees for the cable providers to keep ESPN. It won't be exorbitant maybe a buck to a buck fifty. So from 7 and change to 9. They will now have the leverage to do it.

True. But we are also at a time where old cable tv companies might make more money off of internet service as opposed to providing tv channels. High speed internet providers will be taking in the cash; wireless companies trying to provide some of that service too.

The sweet spot may exist for internet providers...

For example, I have Comcast. While cable subs will continue to suffer, someone is going to need internet access in order to take advantage of any streaming service. Comcast is a big internet provider in addition to being a distributor for cable services. Comcast is also a part of larger media empire that includes NBC Universal although I forget who owns who at the moment. Point being, if you can provide access to the internet with your infrastructure then you can tie in streaming subs to your base product and perhaps guarantee greater penetration.

Of course, one of the best things about these streaming services is that you don't have to buy just one. If one company provides a great deal of content at a reasonable price but you also like what someone else is offering then just get both and you're probably still spending a lot less than you would on a traditional cable or satellite subscription.

Now you take a company like Disney, who has a fairly unique advantage of owning a variety of desirable content, and marry them to an internet provider and you can almost guarantee a certain income stream for many, many years to come. For Disney, you throw in the benefit of having great content so customers using other internet providers will probably purchase your service too.
08-11-2017 08:28 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
A point about ESPN more or less abandoning the B1G or PAC...

They would certainly obtain a great deal of leverage when Disney launches these streaming services. One of the reasons they could afford to put the pinch on the other leagues is because they'll already have access to most of the same markets with other content.

Currently, ESPN airs NFL, NBA, MLB, and MLS games along with tennis, golf, and other events.

Are sports fans in the Midwest and West going to abandon ESPN just because their local PAC or B1G team might not be on there very much? I doubt it. I think that's especially true because in most of the markets we're talking about, the local pro sports franchises are often more popular than the local college team.
08-11-2017 08:41 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

I like OU and KU as well.

My question on the 2nd option though would be be that it depends on disqualifying Baylor from voting. It might happen that way, but I don't think we can be sure of that at this juncture.
08-12-2017 02:04 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's take another tack here guys.

Yesterday the markets reflected an entirely different reality to what Disney has proposed. CBNC analysts seem to think that in 2019 Disney will be the cable provider and streaming provider. Think about it. Right now DirectTV/ATT, Charter/Spectrum, WOW, and other cable providers are all reassessing everything. Disney announced that Netflix will not have any Disney programming to offer at the start of 2019. Disney is pulling it all back and they are going to provide their own package of Disney products & ESPN's offerings as an entity. Who knows? They may wind up offering other premium movie channels as part of the package.

What will happen is you won't have 400 channels where 1/3rd of them are shopping and advertising channels. Right now getting live sports is the leader that all of the other cable services pay to have so that they can make money off of the other crap channels that pay them to sell their stuff. Throw in TV rerun channels and add the various History / Geogrpahic /Smitsonian channels and that's your package. We if Disney pulls ESPN from those to launch their own the SEC and ACC stand to make even more because the middle man is cut out and Disney will be keeping all of the profits up front.

Such a package might not offer the PACN & BTN if they aren't with ESPN. Suddenly without ESPN to get the eyes for them they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. That's tremendous leverage for Disney.

But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

Now if the Big 10 does a reverse and divests itself from the BTN and goes with an ESPN held model of the BTN then those divisions of property could be quite different.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the SEC.
Notre Dame and West Virginia to the ACC.
Texas Tech, T.C.U., Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State to the AAC or PAC.

Who has all of the viewer data from.......forever? ESPN
Who knows which match-ups will garner the largest audiences? ESPN

Just when you thought you knew everything about realignment.......the onion gets peeled back one additional layer.
08-12-2017 05:40 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-12-2017 05:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's take another tack here guys.

Yesterday the markets reflected an entirely different reality to what Disney has proposed. CBNC analysts seem to think that in 2019 Disney will be the cable provider and streaming provider. Think about it. Right now DirectTV/ATT, Charter/Spectrum, WOW, and other cable providers are all reassessing everything. Disney announced that Netflix will not have any Disney programming to offer at the start of 2019. Disney is pulling it all back and they are going to provide their own package of Disney products & ESPN's offerings as an entity. Who knows? They may wind up offering other premium movie channels as part of the package.

What will happen is you won't have 400 channels where 1/3rd of them are shopping and advertising channels. Right now getting live sports is the leader that all of the other cable services pay to have so that they can make money off of the other crap channels that pay them to sell their stuff. Throw in TV rerun channels and add the various History / Geogrpahic /Smitsonian channels and that's your package. We if Disney pulls ESPN from those to launch their own the SEC and ACC stand to make even more because the middle man is cut out and Disney will be keeping all of the profits up front.

Such a package might not offer the PACN & BTN if they aren't with ESPN. Suddenly without ESPN to get the eyes for them they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. That's tremendous leverage for Disney.

But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

Now if the Big 10 does a reverse and divests itself from the BTN and goes with an ESPN held model of the BTN then those divisions of property could be quite different.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the SEC.
Notre Dame and West Virginia to the ACC.
Texas Tech, T.C.U., Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State to the AAC or PAC.

Who has all of the viewer data from.......forever? ESPN
Who knows which match-ups will garner the largest audiences? ESPN

Just when you thought you knew everything about realignment.......the onion gets peeled back one additional layer.

Well if they simply went by that X they would have parsed the ACC long ago and would have saved the Big 12 (in its original form).

But if it was purely based on ratings they would want both Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC.
08-12-2017 06:14 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
I think it's a reasonable assumption at this point that ESPN will at least attempt to break the Big 12 apart in order to acquire content. The announcement by Disney and Iger's comments do seem to tip their hand a little bit.

There's a few ways I could see this going...

The SEC and ACC stand to benefit the most as ESPN "team members." ESPN will reap greater profits from their enlargement.

While the B1G seems to have thrown in with FOX, the PAC is still split pretty much right down the middle between the two major networks. This dynamic could inform our analysis of ESPN's strategy going forward.

1. I don't think it should be lost on us that FOX only started in earnest to delve into the American sports broadcasting market about 5 years ago. FS1 launched in August almost 4 years ago to the day. Point being, ESPN has known about this direct assault on their virtual monopoly for a while now, but it appears they might have taken a wait and see approach to assess exactly what sort of threat FOX posed.

FOX Sports has grown to some degree, but it hasn't been easy. In short, FOX has not established themselves as a true peer to ESPN. In fact, they just lost one of the cornerstone products...UEFA Champions League. It would appear that FOX's impact is somewhat limited despite some of the bizarre chest thumping you see from certain biased fan bases. Although FOX made a splash early on and their acquisition of the B1G T1 rights will certainly bolster their ratings, it doesn't appear as though they are in a position to truly compete with ESPN and by extension Disney at this time.

In fact, I would say FOX is much more of a peer with NBC, CBS, and Turner when it comes to their offerings as opposed to ESPN. In a way, the entrance of all of these media entities into dedicated sports broadcasting might have been a good thing for ESPN. FOX barely has time to be worried about ESPN when they're so busy fighting off the smaller networks nipping at their heels. There's just not enough prime content to go around and really the only area that FOX excels at is their regional system of networks. Point being, none of these entities are really well established and that gives ESPN a huge advantage.

2. I'm guessing here, but I think it's possible the PACN could be available for a cheap price. For one, the network doesn't generate that much revenue and still has carriage issues. Secondly, it would appear the PAC built the network in order to make an investment in a media company with eyes on selling it off one day. Well, that investment has an expiration date on it. Due to the advent of streaming, a linear network will never be more valuable than it is right now. In fact, the value has probably already declined given new technology.

I imagine ESPN wants to wholly own the PACN just as they wholly own everything else. It's possible the PAC is balking at this because they obviously like to maintain control and so they might view owning a large share in the PACN as a positive. If it's true though that the B1G is divesting from the BTN given its success then the PAC might want to get busy cashing in on their investment before it ends up losing money.

3. I've generally thrown around the idea as one of my nutso theories, but the more I think about it the more I could see ESPN wanting to own 3/4 of the Power conferences once the next realignment shakes out. While the PAC deal with FOX will last several more years, their network could be available as I said. What sort of move might encourage the PAC to sell and throw their future wholeheartedly in with ESPN?

The Big 12 is conveniently at the crossroads of the other major conferences. It's another motivation to get this deal done and move along. I'm speculating, but perhaps there is something going on behind the scenes with the PAC. If ESPN was only interested in unilaterally slicing up the Big 12 and placing the pieces in the SEC and ACC then that deal would probably have been done by now. There's really nothing that could stop that sort of endeavor unless another party was negotiating their way into the mix.

4. Now it's also possible that the reason for the delay has something to do with certain schools being interested in going to the B1G, but I kind of doubt it. Not that the B1G isn't desirable, but ultimately they have demographic issues and long term that could get even worse. There's also the fact that whoever the B1G desires will not be able to fully maximize their revenue and potential in that conference.

5. Disney's new approach to streaming, I believe, will revolutionize the market. While FOX is a rather large media company in their own right and there are certainly others, no one has the level of content that Disney has at their disposal and obviously I'm not just talking about ESPN although that's a big part of it.

So I think their new plan for streaming will end up defining sports broadcasting for the next generation. While other companies such as Amazon, Facebook, and Apple are getting into the business; they will have some of the same problems that the larger networks have in that they aren't well-established. I think these companies will have success, but I doubt they end up acquiring prime rights to major sporting events anytime in the near future. Maybe one day, but it might take a long time.

Point being, not only can Disney create leverage over cable companies with their new services, but they can put the pinch on the PAC and the B1G should both of these leagues decide to side with FOX. As JR said, without ESPN on all the same cable packages, the appeal of the PAC and the B1G will diminish because FOX can't compete on content and therefore will not carry the same demand in the open market. More to the point, FOX can't use ESPN to buoy their ratings if ESPN pulls their content from standard cable packages. People will abandon FOX before they abandon ESPN.

Correct me if I'm wrong JR, but I think your primary point there was that ESPN would use these dynamics to get sub raises for all their networks rather than simply pulling content. So in the end, FOX stays relevant, but ESPN cashes in on the cable companies' weakness.

6. So what's my point in all this?

Obviously, I'm spitballing a lot here, but perhaps ESPN is in the process of cutting a deal with the PAC. The PAC is, after all, the primary college sports league for a large and growing portion of the country despite the fact the league is the least watched and least valuable.

By contrast, it does seem the B1G is divesting from the BTN, but I don't think their plan is to shift to ESPN. They did just give an unprecedented level of content to FOX after all. If the B1G divests from the BTN then FOX will still own it and they did just extend their contract for the network to the middle of the 2030s. I think the B1G will stick with FOX in the long run and try to become tentpole content for that network rather than being one of many in the ESPN family. Perhaps they'll get more exposure that way, not sure.

So anyway, it's hard to split the Big 12 among the SEC and ACC without doing some really strange geographical gymnastics. It's much easier to split the league among 3 suitors. Honesty, they need the content to make their network more relevant anyway. In addition, the PAC is the smallest of the leagues that are likely to survive. They need additional schools if for no more reason than to be able to host their own semi-finals. A true expansion of the playoff will not be complete unless the PAC is in on the action. I don't think this is a small reason either.

Let's say the networks expanded the CFP to 8 and got 4 additional national games. Now obviously, there are not 4 games more valuable that could be added to the college football season than that. That would be big bucks. The problem is that there could really only be 4 of them at most. I know JR suggested that the networks will make more money off of these additional CFP games than an expansion of the conference championship system, but let me suggest that might not actually be true.

If the SEC, ACC, PAC, and B1G all add semi-finals then that's 8 additional games of significant importance. Per game value, the addition of 4 to the CFP would be the way to go, but double that number and you might actually create a bigger pot with conference semis. Dedicate one entire Saturday to these big conference semis and you've got quite a day of watchability from regions all over the country.

Combine this dynamic with the one that garners the most attention for the CFP and that's the champs-only model. Of course, if you increase the number of games it takes to determine that conference champion then you've added more value and interest to the system.

How about this for an alignment?

SEC adds Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State

ACC adds Notre Dame, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and UConn

PAC adds Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and UNLV

Baylor(toxic) and Kansas State are left out, but obviously given a home in the AAC probably with the likes of BYU and maybe others from the West.

This is assuming that ESPN buys the PACN and incorporates the PAC into the ESPN family.

You have ESPN controlling 3/4 of the major conferences, each from 3 distinct and growing regions of the country. You have ESPN also controlling 6 of the 8 conference semi-finals games as well as the CFP itself.

You have a much more reasonable division of the Big 12 and a quicker end to all the chaos of the last decade.
08-12-2017 08:32 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
ATU, I think we are seeing things extremely similarly. But I would differ on the division if the PAC comes all in.

I think the PAC would take Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Iowa State.

Why? They really don't want OSU because of their R2 research status.

I think OU and OSU still head to the SEC.

If the ACC is smart they will pick up West Virginia.

The AAC will get a boost in pay and the will take T.C.U., Baylor, and Kansas State.

If the PAC doesn't join in then look for ESPN to push for the cream.

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC and Notre Dame to the ACC with West Virginia.
08-12-2017 09:17 PM
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RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-12-2017 09:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ATU, I think we are seeing things extremely similarly. But I would differ on the division if the PAC comes all in.

I think the PAC would take Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Iowa State.

Why? They really don't want OSU because of their R2 research status.

I think OU and OSU still head to the SEC.

If the ACC is smart they will pick up West Virginia.

The AAC will get a boost in pay and the will take T.C.U., Baylor, and Kansas State.

If the PAC doesn't join in then look for ESPN to push for the cream.

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC and Notre Dame to the ACC with West Virginia.

I would think Texas would push for both TCU and Texas Tech to go with them or at least for both to be secure, but I could be wrong. If UT did want that then I think the PAC would be foolish to turn it down.

Perhaps this...

SEC takes Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Kansas

ACC takes Notre Dame and West Virginia

B1G takes Iowa State and UConn
08-13-2017 02:07 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-13-2017 02:07 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 09:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ATU, I think we are seeing things extremely similarly. But I would differ on the division if the PAC comes all in.

I think the PAC would take Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Iowa State.

Why? They really don't want OSU because of their R2 research status.

I think OU and OSU still head to the SEC.

If the ACC is smart they will pick up West Virginia.

The AAC will get a boost in pay and the will take T.C.U., Baylor, and Kansas State.

If the PAC doesn't join in then look for ESPN to push for the cream.

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC and Notre Dame to the ACC with West Virginia.

I would think Texas would push for both TCU and Texas Tech to go with them or at least for both to be secure, but I could be wrong. If UT did want that then I think the PAC would be foolish to turn it down.

Perhaps this...

SEC takes Oklahoma and Oklahoma State

PAC takes Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and Kansas

ACC takes Notre Dame and West Virginia

B1G takes Iowa State and UConn

ATU, I'm not sure the Big 10 can afford to take anyone other than Texas/Kansas or Oklahoma/Kansas and then remember they are probably losing money on Kansas but gaining revenue on the pair.

In 2018 the B1G payout is going to 51 million.

Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, T.C.U., West Virginia, Kansas State, and Baylor are not AAU, and neither would they pay their way into the Big 10.

Iowa State is AAU and in a state they already have and they still don't pay their way in.

Texas pays its way in. Oklahoma pays its way in. There is some debate as to whether Kansas with Oklahoma pays its way in. Texas would cover Kansas. So the game for the Big 10 is real simple. If they don't land Texas they probably won't make much money if any on Oklahoma and Kansas. So the Big 10 would probably wait on a possible PAC or ACC target.

So in the scenario you listed I don't think the Big 10 does anything.
08-13-2017 02:29 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
It would make more sense for the PAC to take 6 to form a new eastern division.

You force the B1G to expand by passing autonomy saying that only conferences with 16+ & multiple divisions can hold conference SF's. Having 3/4 of the power conferences, ESPN can do whatever they want. Including passing rules to weaken their competition.


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(This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 07:01 AM by Lenvillecards.)
08-13-2017 07:01 AM
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RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-13-2017 07:01 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  It would make more sense for the PAC to take 6 to form a new eastern division.

You force the B1G to expand by passing autonomy saying that only conferences with 16+ & multiple divisions can hold conference SF's. Having 3/4 of the power conferences, ESPN can do whatever they want. Including passing rules to weaken their competition.


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The PAC may be more willing to expand by 3, and pass autonomy as you said for 15 instead. Depending on who they take (Texas, Tech, Kansas, with OK/State to SEC, WVA to ACC), the Big 10 is still left with subobtimal choices.
08-13-2017 08:36 AM
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Post: #33
Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-13-2017 08:36 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  
(08-13-2017 07:01 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  It would make more sense for the PAC to take 6 to form a new eastern division.

You force the B1G to expand by passing autonomy saying that only conferences with 16+ & multiple divisions can hold conference SF's. Having 3/4 of the power conferences, ESPN can do whatever they want. Including passing rules to weaken their competition.


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The PAC may be more willing to expand by 3, and pass autonomy as you said for 15 instead. Depending on who they take (Texas, Tech, Kansas, with OK/State to SEC, WVA to ACC), the Big 10 is still left with subobtimal choices.


Adding only 3 would disrupt their current divisional lineup & 15 causes some scheduling issues but 15 is doable.


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08-13-2017 08:44 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #34
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-13-2017 08:44 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(08-13-2017 08:36 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  
(08-13-2017 07:01 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  It would make more sense for the PAC to take 6 to form a new eastern division.

You force the B1G to expand by passing autonomy saying that only conferences with 16+ & multiple divisions can hold conference SF's. Having 3/4 of the power conferences, ESPN can do whatever they want. Including passing rules to weaken their competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The PAC may be more willing to expand by 3, and pass autonomy as you said for 15 instead. Depending on who they take (Texas, Tech, Kansas, with OK/State to SEC, WVA to ACC), the Big 10 is still left with subobtimal choices.


Adding only 3 would disrupt their current divisional lineup & 15 causes some scheduling issues but 15 is doable.


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I dont think the PAC would stick with 15. I could Kansas St getting a lifeline here.
08-13-2017 09:06 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-12-2017 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 05:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's take another tack here guys.

Yesterday the markets reflected an entirely different reality to what Disney has proposed. CBNC analysts seem to think that in 2019 Disney will be the cable provider and streaming provider. Think about it. Right now DirectTV/ATT, Charter/Spectrum, WOW, and other cable providers are all reassessing everything. Disney announced that Netflix will not have any Disney programming to offer at the start of 2019. Disney is pulling it all back and they are going to provide their own package of Disney products & ESPN's offerings as an entity. Who knows? They may wind up offering other premium movie channels as part of the package.

What will happen is you won't have 400 channels where 1/3rd of them are shopping and advertising channels. Right now getting live sports is the leader that all of the other cable services pay to have so that they can make money off of the other crap channels that pay them to sell their stuff. Throw in TV rerun channels and add the various History / Geogrpahic /Smitsonian channels and that's your package. We if Disney pulls ESPN from those to launch their own the SEC and ACC stand to make even more because the middle man is cut out and Disney will be keeping all of the profits up front.

Such a package might not offer the PACN & BTN if they aren't with ESPN. Suddenly without ESPN to get the eyes for them they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. That's tremendous leverage for Disney.

But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

Now if the Big 10 does a reverse and divests itself from the BTN and goes with an ESPN held model of the BTN then those divisions of property could be quite different.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the SEC.
Notre Dame and West Virginia to the ACC.
Texas Tech, T.C.U., Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State to the AAC or PAC.

Who has all of the viewer data from.......forever? ESPN
Who knows which match-ups will garner the largest audiences? ESPN

Just when you thought you knew everything about realignment.......the onion gets peeled back one additional layer.

Well if they simply went by that X they would have parsed the ACC long ago and would have saved the Big 12 (in its original form).

But if it was purely based on ratings they would want both Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC.


You always seem to miss the big picture.
ESPN knew that if they were ever going to flesh out ESPNU as a network, they were going to need inventory, good inventory for time other than Labor Day thru Thanksgiving. The ACC gives them an excellent variety of championship level spring sports all located in the Eastern Time Zone. BTW, we aren't too bad at football either!
08-13-2017 07:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-13-2017 07:37 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(08-12-2017 05:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(08-11-2017 05:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's take another tack here guys.

Yesterday the markets reflected an entirely different reality to what Disney has proposed. CBNC analysts seem to think that in 2019 Disney will be the cable provider and streaming provider. Think about it. Right now DirectTV/ATT, Charter/Spectrum, WOW, and other cable providers are all reassessing everything. Disney announced that Netflix will not have any Disney programming to offer at the start of 2019. Disney is pulling it all back and they are going to provide their own package of Disney products & ESPN's offerings as an entity. Who knows? They may wind up offering other premium movie channels as part of the package.

What will happen is you won't have 400 channels where 1/3rd of them are shopping and advertising channels. Right now getting live sports is the leader that all of the other cable services pay to have so that they can make money off of the other crap channels that pay them to sell their stuff. Throw in TV rerun channels and add the various History / Geogrpahic /Smitsonian channels and that's your package. We if Disney pulls ESPN from those to launch their own the SEC and ACC stand to make even more because the middle man is cut out and Disney will be keeping all of the profits up front.

Such a package might not offer the PACN & BTN if they aren't with ESPN. Suddenly without ESPN to get the eyes for them they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. That's tremendous leverage for Disney.

But as to the SEC and ACC realignment issues go consider this:

Oklahoma, Kansas to the SEC & Texas to the ACC with N.D. all in is the absolute home run for the two conferences. But if UT and OU insist on little brothers too then perhaps this is the best way to go:
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Iowa State to the SEC.
Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia to the ACC. N.D. goes all in.

We can hope for the first option and prepare to settle for something like the second.

Now if the Big 10 does a reverse and divests itself from the BTN and goes with an ESPN held model of the BTN then those divisions of property could be quite different.

Texas and Kansas to the Big 10.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the SEC.
Notre Dame and West Virginia to the ACC.
Texas Tech, T.C.U., Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State to the AAC or PAC.

Who has all of the viewer data from.......forever? ESPN
Who knows which match-ups will garner the largest audiences? ESPN

Just when you thought you knew everything about realignment.......the onion gets peeled back one additional layer.

Well if they simply went by that X they would have parsed the ACC long ago and would have saved the Big 12 (in its original form).

But if it was purely based on ratings they would want both Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC.


You always seem to miss the big picture.
ESPN knew that if they were ever going to flesh out ESPNU as a network, they were going to need inventory, good inventory for time other than Labor Day thru Thanksgiving. The ACC gives them an excellent variety of championship level spring sports all located in the Eastern Time Zone. BTW, we aren't too bad at football either!

We do pretty darned well with spring sports as well! Just saying!
08-13-2017 08:22 PM
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Underdog Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-13-2017 08:44 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(08-13-2017 08:36 AM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  
(08-13-2017 07:01 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  It would make more sense for the PAC to take 6 to form a new eastern division.

You force the B1G to expand by passing autonomy saying that only conferences with 16+ & multiple divisions can hold conference SF's. Having 3/4 of the power conferences, ESPN can do whatever they want. Including passing rules to weaken their competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The PAC may be more willing to expand by 3, and pass autonomy as you said for 15 instead. Depending on who they take (Texas, Tech, Kansas, with OK/State to SEC, WVA to ACC), the Big 10 is still left with subobtimal choices.


Adding only 3 would disrupt their current divisional lineup & 15 causes some scheduling issues but 15 is doable.


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I think 15 members is an optimal number for a conference if it’s allowed to have 3 divisions of 5. Each school is able to play every member in its division and another division each season for 9 conference games. Consequently, each division can play all the schools in the other 2 divisions within a two year span and host every school within a four year span. Adding two additional school makes the aforementioned impossible with 9 conference games. My point: OSU could be profitable to the SEC in a 3 divisions of 5 arrangement; OU is profitable regardless….
(This post was last modified: 08-15-2017 02:00 AM by Underdog.)
08-14-2017 05:52 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
WEST
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas

SOUTH
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn

NORTH
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

EAST
ECU
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida


Markets: Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Shreveport, Little Rock, Memphis, Birmingham, Nashville, Knoxville, Lexington, Louisville, DC, Pittsburgh, Tidewater VA, Greenville NC, Wilmington, Raleigh, Charlotte, Columbia, Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando/Tampa
08-15-2017 07:23 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-15-2017 07:23 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  WEST
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas

SOUTH
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn

NORTH
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

EAST
ECU
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida


Markets: Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Shreveport, Little Rock, Memphis, Birmingham, Nashville, Knoxville, Lexington, Louisville, DC, Pittsburgh, Tidewater VA, Greenville NC, Wilmington, Raleigh, Charlotte, Columbia, Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando/Tampa

West
A&M, LSU, Ole, MSU

Ark, Mizz, OU, OSU

Ala, Vanderbilt, Tenn, Kentucky

Auburn Florida Georgia South Carolina
08-15-2017 09:52 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Imagine an SEC schedule with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
(08-15-2017 09:52 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(08-15-2017 07:23 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  WEST
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas

SOUTH
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn

NORTH
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
West Virginia

EAST
ECU
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida


Markets: Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Shreveport, Little Rock, Memphis, Birmingham, Nashville, Knoxville, Lexington, Louisville, DC, Pittsburgh, Tidewater VA, Greenville NC, Wilmington, Raleigh, Charlotte, Columbia, Myrtle Beach, Charleston, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Orlando/Tampa

West
A&M, LSU, Ole, MSU

Ark, Mizz, OU, OSU

Ala, Vanderbilt, Tenn, Kentucky

Auburn Florida Georgia South Carolina

Yep, that works quite nicely.
08-15-2017 10:12 PM
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