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sctvman Offline
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Post: #1
Resources of state schools
Saw an interesting thread on the realignment board with some talk about resources of different schools around the country. Several people did North Carolina schools. UNCW was listed as part of the "rest", while UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake, ECU, App State, Davidson, and Charlotte were listed in tiers.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-814939-post-142...id14249397
04-10-2017 10:09 AM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
It looked like an ECU poster put that on there so there you go. It depends how you define resources. UNCW has a good basketball and baseball tradition with good fan support. In hoops, the 4 ACC schools get the most love, but UNCW has traditionally been pretty good and is a hoops school. Same can be said of Davidson. Charlotte traditionally has been good in hoops, but has been down for a while with football being more of a focus. UNCA and NC Central have had some hoops success too, but on a lower level. Other than these schools, none have any basketball tradition (this century) or have cared about hoops to any substantial level (this century). I'm talking about NCAA appearances and "earned" NIT appearances only for this century. If you haven't sniffed the NCAA or NIT in that time, there's no discussion.

In football it's been the Big 4 with ECU on the next tier. ECU has fallen off lately and App has risen. It will be interesting to see if App can consistently outperform ECU. That hasn't been the case very often. There are no other D1 football programs. I will add that ECU has been better than some of the Big 4 over the past 15-20 years at times. ECU draws very well for football.

In baseball, it's been UNC and State with ECU and UNCW on the next tier but still good programs. This year UNCW is down and ECU is not clicking. That doesn't happen very often. ECU draws well for baseball and UNCW generally draws well too.

I'm not sure of the size of all of the schools, but I'd say that State has about 34K, UNC about 29K, Wake and Duke would be <15K students. ECU would probably be close to 30K, UNCW close to 16 K, App St about 19K, Davidson about 2K and Charlotte about 25K.

Expansion is often mainly about a certain sport and not about a general statement regarding overall resources. Just my 2 cents without much, if any, research...too busy to do it.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2017 08:42 PM by billthebighawksfan.)
04-10-2017 08:15 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
I'd tier the North Carolina programs as follows:

Basketball:
1 - Carolina and Duke
2 - State WFU and Davidson
3 - UNCW and Charlotte
4 - UNCA, NCCU and UNCG

Baseball:
1 - Carolina
2 - State
3 - ECU
4 - UNCW

Football:
Do we have to start with tier 1?
1a - Carolina
1b - State
2 - ECU
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2017 08:42 AM by bricksnivy.)
04-10-2017 10:19 PM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
Central is not above UNCA in hoops. You could argue Charlotte and UNCW in the same tier, not Central. UNCW has been to the Dance like 6 times this century with good seeds most of the time, Charlotte probably not quite that many but still decent seeds. Central was in the play in game and UNCA tops out about a 14 seed max.
04-11-2017 07:52 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
I initially didn't have NCCU on the list; I don't know a lot about their program, TBH, but they've been to the tournament a few times in the last 3-4 years based on my recollection.
04-11-2017 08:14 AM
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82hawk Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
NCCU is not on the same level as UNCW in basketball. One coach does not make a program.
04-11-2017 08:33 AM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
(04-11-2017 08:33 AM)82hawk Wrote:  NCCU is not on the same level as UNCW in basketball. One coach does not make a program.

I don't know that's an absolute statement, and I think we can all attest to the success that one coach can create. Sustaining that is what matters.

For right or wrong reasons, Calipari made Memphis what they were. Arguably, Coach K makes Duke what they are (and we briefly saw the results when he's not on the bench this year). On a smaller, and more familiar scale to us... Larranaga was George Mason.

Thoughts?
04-11-2017 01:07 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
(04-11-2017 01:07 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 08:33 AM)82hawk Wrote:  NCCU is not on the same level as UNCW in basketball. One coach does not make a program.

I don't know that's an absolute statement, and I think we can all attest to the success that one coach can create. Sustaining that is what matters.

For right or wrong reasons, Calipari made Memphis what they were. Arguably, Coach K makes Duke what they are (and we briefly saw the results when he's not on the bench this year). On a smaller, and more familiar scale to us... Larranaga was George Mason.

Thoughts?

I think what he was trying to get at is they have only really had one coach that's had success. We have had several periods of success and thus have a bigger sample size.
04-11-2017 01:27 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
(04-11-2017 01:27 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 01:07 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  
(04-11-2017 08:33 AM)82hawk Wrote:  NCCU is not on the same level as UNCW in basketball. One coach does not make a program.

I don't know that's an absolute statement, and I think we can all attest to the success that one coach can create. Sustaining that is what matters.

For right or wrong reasons, Calipari made Memphis what they were. Arguably, Coach K makes Duke what they are (and we briefly saw the results when he's not on the bench this year). On a smaller, and more familiar scale to us... Larranaga was George Mason.

Thoughts?

I think what he was trying to get at is they have only really had one coach that's had success. We have had several periods of success and thus have a bigger sample size.

I'm 100% down with that. Is he wrong or are we both right now?
04-11-2017 01:40 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Resources of state schools
I didn't expect NCCU to be a lightening rod. I didn't want to slight them because they have made the tournament, and I like Moton. I didn't give a lot of thought to their placement on the list.
04-11-2017 01:42 PM
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sctvman Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
Charlotte hasn't been in the tourney since '05, while UNCW has been in the tourney 3 times. I'd compare UNCW to Charlotte very easily. Charlotte's football program though is the difference.

Charlotte basketball is a sleeping giant, but they haven't had the right coach for a long while.
04-11-2017 05:51 PM
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billthebighawksfan Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
Is the difference in what? It's nice to have a football team but if it's going to be average at best and it takes away from hoops, I'm not interested. UNCW is only interested in hoops and baseball. UNCW has been to the NCAA's 6 times since 2000.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2017 07:11 PM by billthebighawksfan.)
04-11-2017 07:07 PM
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geezerhawkdad Offline
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RE: Resources of state schools
Charlotte is in Conference USA, which includes a couple of other schools with impressive basketball pedigrees: Western Kentucky and UTEP (Texas Western ). Their basketball fortunes have declined in recent years. CUSA is a one bid league now.

The Sunbelt Conference, which includes Appalachian State, ranked above CUSA in some of the football rankings in 2016.
04-12-2017 04:33 PM
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