(11-13-2013 02:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Wasn't disagreeing with you.

Getting along with folks is always in our long term interests. The Israelis have always done a wonderful job of trying to make our interest and theirs appear the same when in reality they couldn't be more divergent.

Agreed. I loathe Iran's government (for very good reason). But it looks like there are people, within Iran, that might be willing to try to change things. This should be encouraged.

I'd imagine this is our long range plan. However, we have a sh!tty way of showing it given the people tried to rise up a couple of years ago and we did nothing.

What would you have expected the USA to do? We're not invading.

There are ways to support other than firing cruise missles. Yes, the sanctions are there but a simple show of support from the US may have gone a long way. As it is, the people tried to rise up, were ignored by the US and were eventually subdued. Bets are they won't try again for a long time knowing now that the US will do nothing to support them.

(11-13-2013 02:49 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Getting along with folks is always in our long term interests. The Israelis have always done a wonderful job of trying to make our interest and theirs appear the same when in reality they couldn't be more divergent.

Agreed. I loathe Iran's government (for very good reason). But it looks like there are people, within Iran, that might be willing to try to change things. This should be encouraged.

I'd imagine this is our long range plan. However, we have a sh!tty way of showing it given the people tried to rise up a couple of years ago and we did nothing.

What would you have expected the USA to do? We're not invading.

There are ways to support other than firing cruise missles. Yes, the sanctions are there but a simple show of support from the US may have gone a long way. As it is, the people tried to rise up, were ignored by the US and were eventually subdued. Bets are they won't try again for a long time knowing now that the US will do nothing to support them.

Please ask any Iranian American you know what the likely response would have been to overt US pressure on Iran from the Iranian people.

(11-13-2013 03:07 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:49 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:45 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-13-2013 02:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Agreed. I loathe Iran's government (for very good reason). But it looks like there are people, within Iran, that might be willing to try to change things. This should be encouraged.

I'd imagine this is our long range plan. However, we have a sh!tty way of showing it given the people tried to rise up a couple of years ago and we did nothing.

What would you have expected the USA to do? We're not invading.

There are ways to support other than firing cruise missles. Yes, the sanctions are there but a simple show of support from the US may have gone a long way. As it is, the people tried to rise up, were ignored by the US and were eventually subdued. Bets are they won't try again for a long time knowing now that the US will do nothing to support them.

Please ask any Iranian American you know what the likely response would have been to overt US pressure on Iran from the Iranian people.

How are the Iranian people going to put overt US pressure on Iran? I was merely saying the US should have supported the uprising, at least in words. Not saying we should have supplied the uprising with cruise missles, etc.

What would you have said? Call them part of the axis of evil like Bush did in the 2002 State of the Union speech? By the way, even if true (and it might be true) for Bush to say so was colossally stupid. It undercut the Iranian moderates. It elevated the Iranian hardline government. It was counterproductive.

The best thing we could have done in Iran is to STFU publically while attempting to isolate them privately. Same goes with VZ. Just encircle them with our allies, choke off their trade and contacts, but do so on the down low. So that people blame the Mullahs or Chavez/Maduro for the economic problems.

Iranians, even those that hate the Ayatollahs are patriotic. They'll defend their country if they feel it is being singled out. And many Iranians that don't like the Mullahs, also aren't huge fans of the US either. There are longstanding issues related to the US support of Savak/The Shah/Iraq in the Iran Iraq War, the downing of an Iranian civilian airliner, US support for Israel, US concessions in Iran (such as extraterritorial immunity) prior to 1979, etc. that cause many Iranians, rightly or wrongly, to not like the USA while at the same time loathing the Ayatollahs. Its best if we do whatever we need to do as quietly as possible.