(09-16-2022 09:18 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 09:08 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  While I consider myself agnostic, I think many (too many) tie attending church regularly/periodically with being a Christian.

I can count on 1 hand how many times my parents have been to church in my entire life and they still consider themselves Christians. I did the CCD thing and all hen I was a kid, but organized religion is just not for me. Does that make me not a Christian - I dunno?

I think most people assimilate attending services of some kind with being of a certain faith.

I would agree with that. My parents stop attending the Catholic Church when I was very young because they refused to baptize me unless my dad was at church every Sunday. He worked 3rd shift and his days off were Monday and Tuesday nights. By the time Sunday morning came around he was tired and went to bed while my mom brought my sister and I to church. They were disgusted that they were told that it was more important for my dad to be at church than to be able to provide for his family. It wasn't that they lost their Christian views, it just was an individual church caused them to fall out of attending any more.

I've never been someone who attended regularly. Outside of funerals and weddings, I rarely ever find myself in a church.

You should’ve never been baptized as a baby anyway. The whole idea of baptism is not only for remission of your sins but also to put on the body of armor for Christ.

You have to first understand your a sinner, babies have no idea they are sinners. Some will point to the fact we came into the world as sinners but it also says in the Bible there is an age of accountability. Obviously, babies are not accountable.

The practice of baptizing babies comes from the Crusades. Europeans started sending boys to fight the Muslims in the Middle East and when some started getting killed many worried about their souls. Solution baptize them as babies.

The road less traveled

I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

(09-16-2022 07:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This trend has been evolving for years now. And it is not surprising.

If it were not for the rise of the Hispanic population, the U.S. dip in the percentage of citizens identifying as Christian would be even more dramatic.

Yes. There was a Pew Research report in 2014 that said religious people in the US (not just Christian) has dropped from 84% to 77% in just 7 years.

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

Because of the moral decay. Not to say Christianity or even religion is the only pathway to morality, nor is it a failsafe, but it certainly provides a roadmap. It wouldn't be as big of a problem if it were replaced by a different roadmap, but that isn't happening. There are currently much fewer people growing up with a moral compass. The results are broken homes, sexual deviancy, mental health crises, declining populations, kids living at home until they are 40 so they can afford to pursue pleasure, and obesity. There is no shame in getting knocked up out of wedlock, no fault divorce, adultery, suicide, pleasure seeking or risky behavior, birth control or abortion, living a dependent or sedentary lifestyle, or taking (legal or illegal) mind altering drugs. Right and wrong has been replaced by do whatever you want and nobody is allowed to "judge". Really the ultimate result, if there is a way to up it in a nutshell, is that shame has been eliminated. That is not a good thing. You no longer have to think about your decisions.

(09-16-2022 10:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 07:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This trend has been evolving for years now. And it is not surprising.

If it were not for the rise of the Hispanic population, the U.S. dip in the percentage of citizens identifying as Christian would be even more dramatic.

Yes. There was a Pew Research report in 2014 that said religious people in the US (not just Christian) has dropped from 84% to 77% in just 7 years.

I did not know that stat. Telling, indeed.

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

That's a pretty bold statement, considering religion predates government in human history.

(09-16-2022 07:38 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Link

Quote:Christianity has remained at the forefront of the nation's political and social conversations for centuries — but new research shows that could be changing.

A new report by Pew Research Center and the General Social Survey published on Tuesday found that the large numbers of people in the U.S who practice Christianity are declining. The religion's demographic has been dwindling since the 1990s, the report said, as many adults transition to an identity of atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular."

So your idol Kark Marx's dream is coming true. Isn't that part of the Communist Manifesto?

Jesus wants us to come to him, if we desire not to it's on the individual as no one is stopping them. I'm just glad that when I die there won't be an Liberals in heaven with me, LOL.

(09-16-2022 08:56 AM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  Nobody talks about religion more than atheists.

The atheist mantra: There is no God, and I hate Him.

(09-16-2022 02:38 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

That's a pretty bold statement, considering religion predates government in human history.

Two people living together under a set of understood rule is a government.

So government goes waaay back.

(09-16-2022 08:14 AM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 08:05 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 07:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This trend has been evolving for years now. And it is not surprising.

If it were not for the rise of the Hispanic population, the U.S. dip in the percentage of citizens identifying as Christian would be even more dramatic.

One would think that a savvy conservative would embrace immigration reform to make it easier for these populations to become American

Oh immigration reform = open borders. Silly communist.

That's exactly what they mean. Unfortunately the left is where the real racists reside in America. They assume all people with brown skin must think a certain way. It's in the process of backfiring on the left in a big way. The family values in MOST Hispanic families is completely incompatible with the degenerate left's agenda. You love to see it.

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

In many cultures throughout history - religion and government were 2 sides of the same coin. It was very much true in Christian Europe from the 500 CE into the 1800s (maybe later?) when secular state governments began removing the laws that set up state religions and allowing more religious freedom.

China, Japan and other Asian cultures had religion and government tightly woven together to the point where the emperors were viewed as gods. Hell, Hiro Hito was worshiped as a god in the 20th century until abdication in 1945.

(09-16-2022 02:38 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

That's a pretty bold statement, considering religion predates government in human history.

Religion has caused harm in certain areas of the world, but only when government used it to divide and weaponize it against the people.

(09-16-2022 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

In many cultures throughout history - religion and government were 2 sides of the same coin. It was very much true in Christian Europe from the 500 CE into the 1800s (maybe later?) when secular state governments began removing the laws that set up state religions and allowing more religious freedom.

China, Japan and other Asian cultures had religion and government tightly woven together to the point where the emperors were viewed as gods. Hell, Hiro Hito was worshiped as a god in the 20th century until abdication in 1945.

Religion by itself isn't the problem. When you have government using religion to gain power, that's when it's dangerous.

(09-16-2022 03:50 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

In many cultures throughout history - religion and government were 2 sides of the same coin. It was very much true in Christian Europe from the 500 CE into the 1800s (maybe later?) when secular state governments began removing the laws that set up state religions and allowing more religious freedom.

China, Japan and other Asian cultures had religion and government tightly woven together to the point where the emperors were viewed as gods. Hell, Hiro Hito was worshiped as a god in the 20th century until abdication in 1945.

Religion by itself isn't the problem. When you have government using religion to gain power, that's when it's dangerous.

Only if a religion doesn't have any actual temporal power is your statement true. It's not been until the 20th century when most of Christianity was neutered from exercising real power. It happened earlier in the U.S. due to the constitution but Europe still had Christian denominations that held serious power and influence over and with governments.

(09-16-2022 02:08 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 02:00 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 11:56 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(09-16-2022 10:07 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't see why this is always thought of as such a huge problem.

A lot of people forget that our society is based on the Ten Commandments, even if some believe that basis to be a loose one. There's a reason why a lot of our laws are derivative of several of the Commandments, like laws regarding homicide and theft of property. Even perjury can be traced to the Ten Commandments. People forget we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles for a reason: Because no man can determine what makes a man free. Only the Laws of Nature, which come from Nature's God. (The Judeo-Christian God, of course.)

Unfortunately, we have one side of the political aisle who want to determine what laws should be followed and even to whom the law is or at least should be applied. We as a country have increasingly turned away from Him, and until we turn back to Him, we will continue to decline morally as a society.

Yea, no.

Governments have caused more harm than religion ever has.

Hey, I'm just stating what I've studied over the years as well as quoting the Declaration of Independence, which clearly mentions that humanity's natural rights come from God.

(09-16-2022 07:38 AM)Kruciff Wrote:  Link

Quote:Christianity has remained at the forefront of the nation's political and social conversations for centuries — but new research shows that could be changing.

A new report by Pew Research Center and the General Social Survey published on Tuesday found that the large numbers of people in the U.S who practice Christianity are declining. The religion's demographic has been dwindling since the 1990s, the report said, as many adults transition to an identity of atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular."

pretty poorly written/sourced article (in that they didn't question the methodology) based upon an even more poorly conducted survey by Pew, which is par for their course.

1. Jews and Muslims appear to account for 4-5% of our population, presumably Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists/Etc another several percent. And there's little to no expectation in any of these scenarios of those groups growing which spits in the face of what we've seen over the past several decades.

to use your source's source:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20...s-to-grow/

2. no bias here:

Quote:None of the models considers Christianity numbers increasing, researchers said, as they are based on "dynamics currently shaping the religious landscape." Dramatic events, such as armed conflicts, social movements, or rising authoritarianism could trigger social and religious upheavals, they added.

3. I'm personally part of a growing number of former Catholics who have left the Church. For myself, I'm a deist in the Aquinas formulation but don't believe in Christ, others have left due to the leftward lurch the Church has taken, and even more due to the draconian rules still in place regarding issues like divorce. In my experience, all three groups would generally still regard ourselves as religious, and indeed, religious in the Judeo-Christian tradition in that we all respect the very positive influence of both faiths at a minimum (in my case) or still even consider themselves to be Christians without a home (in both of my latter examples, most would fall into the disaffiliation camp). Others from other denominations can chime in on this.

4. Academics generally suck at statistics and formulate artificial boundaries to achieve the results they want. I'm no expert, but I've taken more, and more rigorous, stats classes than most of the academics purporting to be experts. I've also built a real life analytics group employing multiple PhDs in both stats and, surprisingly to me working in finance, industrial engineering.

my two cents for whatever that's worth. probably a couple pennies or so.