(12-02-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Well that does it...I renounce Christianity because of this billboard.


/sarcasm


Like I said before....when the time comes if I'm wrong about my religion absolutely nothing will happen. If the atheists are wrong they face eternal damnation. I'll take that bet.

The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Well that does it...I renounce Christianity because of this billboard.


/sarcasm


Like I said before....when the time comes if I'm wrong about my religion absolutely nothing will happen. If the atheists are wrong they face eternal damnation. I'll take that bet.

The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

I don't hold religious discussions with you because your history shows all you want to do is troll Christians. You probably fapped till you bled when you saw this billboard.

(12-02-2017 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Well that does it...I renounce Christianity because of this billboard.


/sarcasm


Like I said before....when the time comes if I'm wrong about my religion absolutely nothing will happen. If the atheists are wrong they face eternal damnation. I'll take that bet.

The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

I don't hold religious discussions with you because your history shows all you want to do is troll Christians.

I don't troll Christians at all, but I may say things about religion that you disagree with.

(12-02-2017 03:40 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 02:21 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The Constitution was based on religious beliefs in MHO.

But, what gets me is why do they care. If they don't believe in God then that's their problem. It's like the pebble that is hurting their feet is caused by the people who believe in God.

I disagree with that. Much of the philosophy that went into the creation of the constitution came from the age of enlightenment plus ancient Greek philosophy - especially that of the republic. IMHO, these were not judeo-christian ideals as we knew them from the time Constantine first unified the church through the renaissance. Combine that with what we knew of the culture of the Israelites from around 1000 BCE to the Roman occupation and it makes our constitution starkly different from precedent. Again, JMHO.

Here's a good read discussing just that.

Did America Have a Christian Founding?

If atheists has any balls they put up one about Islam with their home addresses. Lol

(12-02-2017 05:45 PM)shere khan Wrote:  If atheists has any balls they put up one about Islam with their home addresses. Lol

we don't all look the same....

since I always carry, I'm simply waiting in silence for a dipshite to make the wrong move.....

(12-02-2017 06:23 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 05:45 PM)shere khan Wrote:  If atheists has any balls they put up one about Islam with their home addresses. Lol

we don't all look the same....

since I always carry, I'm simply waiting in silence for a dipshite to make the wrong move.....

I got nothing against an atheist, Muslim, a Christian, etc. Having said that, don't start none won't be none.

Amirite

(12-03-2017 01:08 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 06:23 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 05:45 PM)shere khan Wrote:  If atheists has any balls they put up one about Islam with their home addresses. Lol

we don't all look the same....

since I always carry, I'm simply waiting in silence for a dipshite to make the wrong move.....

I got nothing against an atheist, Muslim, a Christian, etc. Having said that, don't start none won't be none.

Amirite

Amen!

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

That outdated excuse really doesn't fly in 2017 anymore. We can all study the origins and beliefs of each other religions on a scholar like level now from our own couches.

That is why more and more Christians in the internet age are reading, studying and understanding the bible like never before. Many today in America know who Jesus is and what he did. The question is WHY would they believe it. Is there strong evidence to believe in the bible? If there is, what is the evidence? These are questions that I began asking the past decade, and the answers have changed my life forever.

No other religion in the word offers anything but blind faith to base your beliefs on. The bible stands alone as a book that PROVES itself beyond a doubt to the believe by foretelling of Christ, the Church, the the rise of the gentile believers, the modern rebirth of Israel after nearly 2000 years, and much of the modern world's direction. The entire bible is written with the purpose of PROVING itself to the end times reader (People like us today). As YHWH Himself says in the bible, "I make the end known FROM THE BEGINNING, so you will KNOW I am GOD and there is no other". He not only told us the end form the beginning, He told us most of the key points in between from millennia to millennia. We are now here at the end, so we have a huge advantage when we read the prophecies in the bible, many of which are now fulfilled.

As I often say, once you have really looked at the facts and evidence recorded in the bible 2300+ years ago, it takes more faith to reject the evidence in the bible than to believe it.

But so few people, even Christians have ever be taught or exposed to biblical apologetics on any level. Most churches simply don't teach it.

(12-03-2017 11:23 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

That is why more and more Christians in the internet age are reading, studying and understanding the bible like never before.

Many today in America know who Jesus is and what he did. The question is WHY would they believe it.

Is there strong evidence to believe in the bible? If there is, what is the evidence?

These are questions that I began asking the past decade, and the answers have changed my life forever.

No other religion in the word offers anything but blind faith to bases your beliefs on. The bible stands alone as a book that PROVES itself beyond a doubt to the believe by foretelling of Christ, the Church, the the rise of the gentile believers, the modern rebirth of Israel after nearly 2000 years, and much of the modern world's direction.

As I often say, it takes more faith to reject the evidence in the bible than to believe it.

But so few people, even Christians have ever be taught or exposed to biblical apologetics on any level. Most churches simply don't teach it.

When you dig into the philosophical, archeological, textual, etc evidence you see overwhelming support for the actual events of the Gospel.

(12-02-2017 03:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Well that does it...I renounce Christianity because of this billboard.


/sarcasm


Like I said before....when the time comes if I'm wrong about my religion absolutely nothing will happen. If the atheists are wrong they face eternal damnation. I'll take that bet.

The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

I don't hold religious discussions with you because your history shows all you want to do is troll Christians.

I don't troll Christians at all, but I may say things about religion that you disagree with.

Intentionally or not, yes you do.

Meh, all these mean spirited things during the Christmas holidays are just that, mean spirited.

(12-03-2017 11:26 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-03-2017 11:23 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

That is why more and more Christians in the internet age are reading, studying and understanding the bible like never before.

Many today in America know who Jesus is and what he did. The question is WHY would they believe it.

Is there strong evidence to believe in the bible? If there is, what is the evidence?

These are questions that I began asking the past decade, and the answers have changed my life forever.

No other religion in the word offers anything but blind faith to bases your beliefs on. The bible stands alone as a book that PROVES itself beyond a doubt to the believe by foretelling of Christ, the Church, the the rise of the gentile believers, the modern rebirth of Israel after nearly 2000 years, and much of the modern world's direction.

As I often say, it takes more faith to reject the evidence in the bible than to believe it.

But so few people, even Christians have ever be taught or exposed to biblical apologetics on any level. Most churches simply don't teach it.

When you dig into the philosophical, archeological, textual, etc evidence you see overwhelming support for the actual events of the Gospel.

OVERWHELMING

There is far too much to fit into one post or even a full days discussion, but I'll make a few points here to consider:

The problem is most people don't know what they are looking for, they think its just about finding old buildings or secular writings in the dirt.

We have a lot of that to point to (there is actually a current explosion of such things in biblical archeology), such as the entire city of David, secular writings, documents of rival nations and Jerusalem itself. But the REAL evidence is in the PRE WRITTEN history of Israel, Christ, the church and WHO believed in Jesus following the crucifixion in the Old Testament.

Are you aware the bible foretold that Israel and the temple would be totally destroyed and the Jews would be scatted across the whole earth for 2000 years because they would reject Christ? PROVABLY written long before He was ever born and Jerusalem ever fell to Rome.

Are you aware the same bible also said the Jews would return to the holy land 2000 years later and reform a nation, surrounded by enemies on all sides, and STILL Rejecting Christ. At the same time Christs Church would be made up mostly of non Jews from all nations from one end of the earth to the other?

A Jewish Messiah, rejected and killed by his people, who then becomes the Savior of all none Jews across the whole world JUST BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN HIM. Not because they are righteous, or sinless or have specific works, but JUST BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN JESUS WITH ALL THEIR HEART. A Jewish Messiah becomes the Savior of the whole world, because His own people rejected and killed Him in His first coming. Just as predicted in the OT in full detail.

All of these things written in UNBELIEVABLE detail centuries before Christ was ever born. Again, I am hardly scratching the surface here.

How is any of this possible?

(12-03-2017 11:28 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:44 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 02:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Well that does it...I renounce Christianity because of this billboard.


/sarcasm


Like I said before....when the time comes if I'm wrong about my religion absolutely nothing will happen. If the atheists are wrong they face eternal damnation. I'll take that bet.

The problem with Pascal's wager is...what if you backed the wrong religion? The vast majority of us were born into our faith system that we practice today. No doubt there are Muslims and Hindus who think we are a lost people because we practice Christianity.

I don't hold religious discussions with you because your history shows all you want to do is troll Christians.

I don't troll Christians at all, but I may say things about religion that you disagree with.

Intentionally or not, yes you do.

Then everyone in this forum is a troll because everyone is stating things that others find upsetting.

(12-03-2017 11:28 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:50 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-02-2017 03:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I don't hold religious discussions with you because your history shows all you want to do is troll Christians.

I don't troll Christians at all, but I may say things about religion that you disagree with.

Intentionally or not, yes you do.

I just use the opportunity to spread the facts and truth in greater detail.

He who has an ear to hear will listen.

Sometime a debate or tolling effort gives you a really good chance to illustrate the truth in the face of common questions and preconceived ideas.

There was a time much of Christianity could be questioned as being written after the fact, and all those thousands of detailed prophecies were all made up after the fact. The oldest copies of the bible were only back as far as about 1000 AD. That is 1000 years AFTER Christ and the destruction of Israel.

That all changed in 1947 with the Dead sea scrolls. They included the entire OT (except Ruth) and were over 1000 years older than anything we had.......and predate the birth of Christ, The Church, the destruction and of course modern rebirth of Israel & the entire church age.

Its not an accident that at the exact same time Israel was reforming as a nation in the holy land, fulfilling hundreds of biblical prophecies, that we also magically uncovered the entire OT that predates Christ and PROVES the whole thing was foretold in full detail centuries before it happened. YHWH clearly wanted man to be without excuse in the last days, and PROVE these things were written centuries before they came to pass.

Its plainly written that knowledge and scriptural understanding would greatly increase at the end. Here we are.

(12-03-2017 11:57 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its not an accident that at the exact same time Israel was reforming as a nation in the holy land, fulfilling hundreds of biblical prophecies, that we also magically uncovered the entire OT that predates Christ and PROVES the whole thing was foretold in full detail centuries before it happened. YHWH clearly wanted man to be without excuse in the last days, and PROVE these things were written centuries before they came to pass.

Old Testament prophecies about Israel becoming a new nation were about Christ establishing His Church, which became the New Jersusalem. The Jewish Nation today, is Christianity. The old Jewish Nation ceased to maintain any special covenant with God, when Christ died and then rose again.

Today, the Nation of Israel is not a place. It's a people. AND, it now is made up of Christians, not Jews.

Don't misunderstand me-- the Jewish people today who aren't Christians DO hold a special place in God's heart; but no moreso than Atheists, Muslims, and Christians or any other religion, all alike.

However, only those who accept Christ are being saved because if they hold fast to their faith, until the completion of their salvation. Any person who will accept God's love for them; and only those who do this, will have ANY type of "special relationship" (i.e., fellowship) with God, now, today.

The two physical territories on earth now called Israel and the USA, neither one; have any more special place, or special purpose in God's "plan" or "heart" than any other countries named by men.

God's redemptive plan allowed all persons (Atheists, Jews, Muslims, Christians and anyone else) to have the ability to live eternally in communion with Him, based on Christ having become a man, and then having died a sinless death, so that all men of all nations and religions, would escape eternal death, and instead live forever (eternally) after they died physically in this world in God's presence.

The only question is how they will live eternally in His presence. Will they continue to resist his "energies" (described as cleansing fire, and unbearable light in the Bible), and experience a state of existence that is described as "Hell"?

Or will they be willing (and able, based on how they lived in this life to make themselves ready for it) to experience these exact same energies of God as unspeakable joy, and exist eternally in a state of being, described as "Heaven"?

Eric, when you constantly look for the Bible to reveal "prophecies" about territories, human rulers, and spiritual entities, other than Christ, you'll certainly come up with "fulfilled prophecies" about dates and times and places, that seem to fit what you're looking to find.

But God doesn't want us to be focused on geographical places, earthly rulers, or spiritual entities. He only wants us focused on Him, and doing good to others.

He couldn't care less about a territory now called Israel, or what "time" it is. The truth is that we've been in "the end times" since Christ was born a man. There isn't any other "end times". First century humans were in them, and humans today are still in them.

And God again, couldn't care less about a territory now called Israel (or, the USA). BUT, He does care with love beyond comprehensive for the souls of all mankind, regardless of "where" they now physically reside.

(12-03-2017 12:36 PM)G-Man Wrote:  Old Testament prophecies about Israel becoming a new nation were about Christ establishing His Church, which became the New Jersusalem. The Jewish Nation today, is Christianity. The old Jewish Nation ceased to maintain any special covenant with God, when Christ died and then rose again.

I'm sorry my friend, but both the OT and the NT clearly show a distinction between the nation if Israel and the Church/Body of Christ, Particuatly in end times events.

But hey don;t take my word for it, lets just look at what Paul Himself said in the NT.

Romans 11:1
I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

Romans 11:25 NIV
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in


Actually this entire chapter completely dispels replacement theology (the belief that the church replaced Israel)

Starting in verse 16 Paul explains that we Gentiles are wild branches grafted into a tree, not a tree replacing and old tree. And that the natural branches (Israel) are cut off but can be grafted back on again:


Romans 11:16
For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

23-24
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

The entire NT maintains a separation between the lost nation of Israel and the body of Christ. All of Peter and Pauls episltes call the church the gentiles and Israel the Jews.

There must be nearly 100 full chapters of OT prophecy that also clearly illustrates the physical nation of Israel returns to the actual HOLY LAND and reforms a nation, STILL rejecting Christ in the end times.

Frankly there can be no tribulation or 2nd coming without a lost nation of Israel returning to the Holy Land.

Even Jesus Himself said the Jews would be back living in the land when the final tribulation began. (Matthew 24:14-16, Mark 13:13-14)

Replacement theology is a denominational based belief that cannot be supported in the OT or the NT. It not even a debatable issue scripturally speaking.

All who believe in Christ in the church age, both Jew and Gentile, are the Church and the body of Christ.

The nation of Israel in biblical context here refers to the Jews who still reject Christ and are lost. They will enter the tribulation as a nation, still rejecting Christ, living in the Holy land, just as promised by 15-20 different biblical Prophets including Christ Himself.