+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: College Sports and Conference Realignment (/forum-637.html)
+---- Thread: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? (/thread-971206.html)
Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - solohawks - 06-06-2023 07:21 AM
Oral Roberts has had a great year in both basketball and baseball. Being the Southern most member of the Summit and with the Summit now on shaky grounds, would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit.
The whole premise of this current incarnation of WAC for the Southland Texas schools was a Texas division and a Western Division.
That Texas division is now only 5 schools - ACU, SFA, Tarleton, UTA, UTRGV
Oral Roberts would make a solid #6 and round on that Texas divison
Adding ORU would give the WAC 12 in M/W Basketball, Volleyball, Baseball with a 6/6 Texas/Western Split
Softball would remain at scheduling friendly 10 with a 4/6 Texas/Western Split as ORU and UTRGV don't sponsor that sport.
W Soccer would be at an awkward 11 since since UTA doesn't sponsor the sport but M Soccer would return to an even 10 including affiliates with ORU basically taking the spot Houston Baptist previously held.
With Basketball being a stated priority for the WAC and with football not being an issue since the new UAC will house football for whomever sponsors it, I think an ORU-WAC alignment make a lot of sense.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - johnintx - 06-06-2023 09:46 AM
(06-06-2023 07:21 AM)solohawks Wrote: Oral Roberts has had a great year in both basketball and baseball. Being the Southern most member of the Summit and with the Summit now on shaky grounds, would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit.
The whole premise of this current incarnation of WAC for the Southland Texas schools was a Texas division and a Western Division.
That Texas division is now only 5 schools - ACU, SFA, Tarleton, UTA, UTRGV
Oral Roberts would make a solid #6 and round on that Texas divison
Adding ORU would give the WAC 12 in M/W Basketball, Volleyball, Baseball with a 6/6 Texas/Western Split
Softball would remain at scheduling friendly 10 with a 4/6 Texas/Western Split as ORU and UTRGV don't sponsor that sport.
W Soccer would be at an awkward 11 since since UTA doesn't sponsor the sport but M Soccer would return to an even 10 including affiliates with ORU basically taking the spot Houston Baptist previously held.
With Basketball being a stated priority for the WAC and with football not being an issue since the new UAC will house football for whomever sponsors it, I think an ORU-WAC alignment make a lot of sense.
ORU left the Summit once for the Southland. It lasted a year before they went back to the Summit. The Southland was a different conference then, but the institutional fit wasn't there for ORU. The Southland wasn't as friendly to private schools at that time. Still, I'd think playing more games in Texas would be attractive to ORU. Enter the newest version of the WAC.
ORU's dream conference is the Missouri Valley. The MVC has a long history in the city of Tulsa, though it's been 20 years since the University of Tulsa left it. But, the footprint of the MVC keeps moving east, not west. Tulsa, Wichita State, and Creighton are all gone. And, if Missouri State eventually leaves as rumored, ORU is even farther out of the MVC footprint.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - CitrusUCF - 06-06-2023 09:57 AM
How exactly is the Summit on shaky ground?
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - PicksUp - 06-06-2023 10:02 AM
(06-06-2023 09:57 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote: How exactly is the Summit on shaky ground?
WIU is leaving, that leaves them with 9 members. You know folks around here are obsessed with conferences having many more members to consider them stable.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - The Sicatoka - 06-06-2023 10:14 AM
(06-06-2023 09:57 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote: How exactly is the Summit on shaky ground?
With WIU leaving for the OVC,
- men's soccer is down to five participants.
- baseball is down to six (including affiliate UNoColo)
Basically the BB autobids are on the clock.
Best options:
- take over operation of NCHC (Summit commish was NCHC commish) but 3/4 of NCHC is against
- Summit Football (Dak4 plus ... is the problem)
- add a school, but no great options
Losing ORU (soccer and baseball) would be a dagger.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - chargeradio - 06-06-2023 10:19 AM
If the Pac-12/10/8 starts to dip into the Mountain West, the WAC may find themselves on equally bad footing. ORU doesn't need to move unless if others start leaving the Summit, or the MVC or Big East comes calling.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - nodak651 - 06-06-2023 10:36 AM
Perhaps the Summit could expand south? Add UCA and Texas schools and start Summit FB?
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - Todor - 06-06-2023 10:46 AM
(06-06-2023 10:19 AM)chargeradio Wrote: If the Pac-12/10/8 starts to dip into the Mountain West, the WAC may find themselves on equally bad footing. ORU doesn't need to move unless if others start leaving the Summit, or the MVC or Big East comes calling.
I agree. I could only see ORU moving if the Summit was on its last leg and/or the WAC was clearly stable. And I don’t see either happening in the next few years.
But for the WAC to be stable, I’d say they have to be free of the Texas football schools and their constant chaos. And that would probably make the WAC less attractive to them. If Arlington was still around though, even if a western school or two left the WAC for the WCC (for example) or elsewhere, the WAC could still be an fairly easy league for travel since most members are near airports/major cities. A league decent basketball schools in larger cities could be attractive I suppose. And stable at that point because no one left would likely have anywhere to leave to. Unfortunately for the WAC in the situation I described above, they would likely have to continue to look east for members.
It’s still not likely IMO.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - The Sicatoka - 06-06-2023 10:52 AM
(06-06-2023 09:46 AM)johnintx Wrote: ORU's dream conference is the Missouri Valley. The MVC has a long history in the city of Tulsa, ...
Recent MVC moves haven't been good for the SL:
- bringing in Murray State and not telling the MVFC (Dak4) schools about the promise the MVC made about guaranteed MVFC football
- the Murray move opened an OVC slot for WIU to depart (sped it up)
It just feels orchestrated to cause problems and a rift. Or I'm just paranoid.
All that said, the MVC could dagger the SL by taking ORU:
- SL would be down to 4 soccer and 5 baseball, and no great options.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - Fighting Muskie - 06-06-2023 11:16 AM
When you look at why ORU left the Southland a few years ago after their brief stint it was because they were resistant to a divisional structure that would have put them with UCA and the LA schools and they’d have minimal exposure in Texas.
WAC membership would actually work well for them because they’d be with 5 Texas schools with visits every other year to these travel pairs:
Seattle/UVU
SUU/UTU
Cal Bapt/GCU
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - jimrtex - 06-06-2023 11:28 AM
Oddly ORU is now the most senior member of the conference, and one of the few that sponsor both baseball and soccer. What is considered the core in the Dakotas don't because they are focused on football and hockey.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - Stugray2 - 06-06-2023 11:29 AM
The short answer is no. The long answer is also no.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - solohawks - 06-06-2023 11:31 AM
(06-06-2023 09:57 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote: How exactly is the Summit on shaky ground?
You must sponsor basketball + two team sports or football on the mens side. WIU drops them under 6 for soccer and thus out of compliance. They can rectify the situation but until they do or the rules change I would say they are on shaky ground
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - Nerdlinger - 06-06-2023 01:21 PM
(06-06-2023 10:52 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:(06-06-2023 09:46 AM)johnintx Wrote: ORU's dream conference is the Missouri Valley. The MVC has a long history in the city of Tulsa, ...
Recent MVC moves haven't been good for the SL:
- bringing in Murray State and not telling the MVFC (Dak4) schools about the promise the MVC made about guaranteed MVFC football
- the Murray move opened an OVC slot for WIU to depart (sped it up)
It just feels orchestrated to cause problems and a rift. Or I'm just paranoid.
All that said, the MVC could dagger the SL by taking ORU:
- SL would be down to 4 soccer and 5 baseball, and no great options.
This.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - Nerdlinger - 06-06-2023 01:24 PM
I think the WAC would be happy to have ORU, but the feeling would not likely be mutual. And the Summit is not as much of a "dead man walking" as some people seem to think. They pick up a men's soccer affiliate, like Air Force, and they're fine.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - The Sicatoka - 06-06-2023 02:33 PM
(06-06-2023 01:21 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: This.
It's gotten me this far in life.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - BirdstheWord - 06-06-2023 08:52 PM
(06-06-2023 09:46 AM)johnintx Wrote:(06-06-2023 07:21 AM)solohawks Wrote: Oral Roberts has had a great year in both basketball and baseball. Being the Southern most member of the Summit and with the Summit now on shaky grounds, would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit.
The whole premise of this current incarnation of WAC for the Southland Texas schools was a Texas division and a Western Division.
That Texas division is now only 5 schools - ACU, SFA, Tarleton, UTA, UTRGV
Oral Roberts would make a solid #6 and round on that Texas divison
Adding ORU would give the WAC 12 in M/W Basketball, Volleyball, Baseball with a 6/6 Texas/Western Split
Softball would remain at scheduling friendly 10 with a 4/6 Texas/Western Split as ORU and UTRGV don't sponsor that sport.
W Soccer would be at an awkward 11 since since UTA doesn't sponsor the sport but M Soccer would return to an even 10 including affiliates with ORU basically taking the spot Houston Baptist previously held.
With Basketball being a stated priority for the WAC and with football not being an issue since the new UAC will house football for whomever sponsors it, I think an ORU-WAC alignment make a lot of sense.
ORU left the Summit once for the Southland. It lasted a year before they went back to the Summit. The Southland was a different conference then, but the institutional fit wasn't there for ORU. The Southland wasn't as friendly to private schools at that time. Still, I'd think playing more games in Texas would be attractive to ORU. Enter the newest version of the WAC.
ORU's dream conference is the Missouri Valley. The MVC has a long history in the city of Tulsa, though it's been 20 years since the University of Tulsa left it. But, the footprint of the MVC keeps moving east, not west. Tulsa, Wichita State, and Creighton are all gone. And, if Missouri State eventually leaves as rumored, ORU is even farther out of the MVC footprint.
A lot of the MVC does not want Oral Roberts.
(06-06-2023 10:52 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:(06-06-2023 09:46 AM)johnintx Wrote: ORU's dream conference is the Missouri Valley. The MVC has a long history in the city of Tulsa, ...
Recent MVC moves haven't been good for the SL:
- bringing in Murray State and not telling the MVFC (Dak4) schools about the promise the MVC made about guaranteed MVFC football
- the Murray move opened an OVC slot for WIU to depart (sped it up)
It just feels orchestrated to cause problems and a rift. Or I'm just paranoid.
All that said, the MVC could dagger the SL by taking ORU:
- SL would be down to 4 soccer and 5 baseball, and no great options.
The Dakota schools owed the MVC schools for adding North Dakota. That's how Murray State got in.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - The Sicatoka - 06-07-2023 09:15 AM
(06-06-2023 08:52 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote: The Dakota schools owed the MVC schools for adding North Dakota. That's how Murray State got in.
That's the legend. When UND came in the MVC (eastern flank) of the MVFC got scheduling concessions to limit travel to the Dakotas. When Murray came in the Dak4 four were told by the MVC portion that the promise was made and there was no option.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - IWokeUpLikeThis - 06-07-2023 11:08 AM
(06-07-2023 09:15 AM)The Sicatoka Wrote:(06-06-2023 08:52 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote: The Dakota schools owed the MVC schools for adding North Dakota. That's how Murray State got in.
That's the legend. When UND came in the MVC (eastern flank) of the MVFC got scheduling concessions to limit travel to the Dakotas. When Murray came in the Dak4 four were told by the MVC portion that the promise was made and there was no option.
Before UND, there were 12 MVFC games in the Dakotas. 3 of the 12 were Dakotas @ Dakotas. That left 9 trips for non-Dakota schools to the Dakotas.
After UND, there were 16 MVFC games in the Dakotas. 6 of the 16 were Dakotas @ Dakotas. That left 10 trips for non-Dakota schools to the Dakotas.
Travel to the Dakotas very slightly increased for the non-Dakota schools by admitting UND. They did not benefit in travel from adding UND.
A favor was done by one side to admit UND, the favor was returned by the other side to admit Murray St. Both schools and their fan bases should feel fortunate and neither has any room to complain.
RE: Would Oral Roberts and the WAC make a good fit? - Nerdlinger - 06-07-2023 11:41 AM
I'm liking Lindenwood's odds for #10 in the Summit and #12 in the MVFC once they become full D1 members in 2026. Neither conference has much of a presence in the St. Louis metro area. I don't really know if Lindenwood would entirely be on board though.