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+---- Thread: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) (/thread-968819.html)
ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 11:49 AM
According to this article (from the uncredible Swaim) which may or may not have much credibility, if 8+ teams leave ACC the GOR could be null and void. Is this the out the ACC teams have been looking for and would the B1G, SEC, and B12 help them to move?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/acc-teams-expected-to-leave-conference/ar-AA19SkAY
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - shizzle787 - 04-16-2023 11:50 AM
Greg Swaim is not reputable.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 11:51 AM
(04-16-2023 11:50 AM)shizzle787 Wrote: Greg Swaim is not reputable.Maybe not, but let's discuss whether or not 8 teams leaving could void the ACC GOR. You can plug and play whichever teams would make the most sense for whichever conference.
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Skyhawk - 04-16-2023 12:01 PM
(04-16-2023 11:49 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote: According to this article which may or may not have much credibility, if 8+ teams leave ACC the GOR could be null and void. Is this the out the ACC teams have been looking for and would the B1G, SEC, and B12 help them to move?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/acc-teams-expected-to-leave-conference/ar-AA19SkAY
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My memory's a bit fuzzy this morning, but I thought when we talked this out on this board last time, after looking at the bylaws, it turned out that it takes 10 at the minimum. The 8 being the extreme chance if some schools didn't show up to vote that day, or something?
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf
Happy reading : )
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - IWokeUpLikeThis - 04-16-2023 12:03 PM
Bad thread. Everyone on this board show know better that Greg Swaim isn’t a source on the ACC GOR. If you’re going to use a source this poor, at least put his name in the title so people aren’t misled into thinking this was a credible report.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:10 PM
(04-16-2023 12:01 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:Hmm, wonder if that's why Swaim listed 10 schools instead of 8. I disagree a bit on WHICH teams would be taken. For one, while I feel FSU and Clemson would be locks for the SEC those two don't expand their footprint. In this scenario I think the SEC would also take VT and NCST. Those two fit the SEC profile well IMO.(04-16-2023 11:49 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote: According to this article which may or may not have much credibility, if 8+ teams leave ACC the GOR could be null and void. Is this the out the ACC teams have been looking for and would the B1G, SEC, and B12 help them to move?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/acc-teams-expected-to-leave-conference/ar-AA19SkAY
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My memory's a bit fuzzy this morning, but I thought when we talked this out on this board last time, after looking at the bylaws, it turned out that it takes 10 at the minimum. The 8 being the extreme chance if some schools didn't show up to vote that day, or something?
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf
Happy reading : )
Also B1G I think would take Duke along with UNC instead of Miami or Georgia Tech. Whichever of Miami/GT is not taken would go to the B12.
B12 would be looking at probably... Louisville and Pitt for sure, then Miami/GT + USF/Memphis IMO.
I think everyone stears clear of the northeast and avoids Syracuse/BC. Syracuse I could even see going Indy in football and joining the Big East (like UConn). Wake Forest and BC join the AAC.
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:11 PM
(04-16-2023 12:03 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Bad thread. Everyone on this board show know better that Greg Swaim isn’t a source on the ACC GOR. If you’re going to use a source this poor, at least put his name in the title so people aren’t misled into thinking this was a credible report.According to earlier discussion apparently 10 is the number and not 8?
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - XLance - 04-16-2023 12:13 PM
VOM is "West Virginia's leader in News, Analysis and Rumors"
'nuff said......
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - PeteTheChop - 04-16-2023 12:14 PM
(04-16-2023 11:50 AM)shizzle787 Wrote: Greg Swaim is not reputable.
Compared to George Kliavkoff he might be
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:18 PM
I just thought it would be a fun discussion topic for the realignment board since I didn't see a thread on it. It's no surprise certain ACC teams want out. The debate should be about the GOR and is there a so called loophole of x number of members leave. This isn't to make Swaim seem credible but just to discuss the subject. I could care less who said it. I'm sure teams are exploring their options to see if there is a way out before 2036.
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - johnbragg - 04-16-2023 12:27 PM
(04-16-2023 12:18 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: I just thought it would be a fun discussion topic for the realignment board since I didn't see a thread on it. It's no surprise certain ACC teams want out. The debate should be about the GOR and is there a so called loophole of x number of members leave. This isn't to make Swaim seem credible but just to discuss the subject. I could care less who said it. I'm sure teams are exploring their options to see if there is a way out before 2036.
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You'd have been better off not bothering with a source. "I've heard on the internet that it would only take 8 to dissolve the ACC. If that's true...."
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:28 PM
(04-16-2023 12:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:Man y'all are brutal, haha!(04-16-2023 12:18 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: I just thought it would be a fun discussion topic for the realignment board since I didn't see a thread on it. It's no surprise certain ACC teams want out. The debate should be about the GOR and is there a so called loophole of x number of members leave. This isn't to make Swaim seem credible but just to discuss the subject. I could care less who said it. I'm sure teams are exploring their options to see if there is a way out before 2036.
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You'd have been better off not bothering with a source. "I've heard on the internet that it would only take 8 to dissolve the ACC. If that's true...."
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - IWokeUpLikeThis - 04-16-2023 12:31 PM
Credit for editing the thread title.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:39 PM
(04-16-2023 12:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Credit for editing the thread title.Lol, you're not welcome. Now can we discuss the GOR and ignore Swaim?
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:40 PM
(04-16-2023 12:39 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote:Whoops, meant to say you're welcome. Phone getting carried away today.(04-16-2023 12:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Credit for editing the thread title.Lol, you're not welcome. Now can we discuss the GOR and ignore Swaim?
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RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - DFW HOYA - 04-16-2023 12:41 PM
There's a distinction here: eight schools could not "leave" the ACC and void the GOR, but if a bylaws majority of ACC schools voted to dissolve the conference entirely, the GOR would not longer apply.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR - Frank the Tank - 04-16-2023 12:43 PM
(04-16-2023 12:18 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: I just thought it would be a fun discussion topic for the realignment board since I didn't see a thread on it. It's no surprise certain ACC teams want out. The debate should be about the GOR and is there a so called loophole of x number of members leave. This isn't to make Swaim seem credible but just to discuss the subject. I could care less who said it. I'm sure teams are exploring their options to see if there is a way out before 2036.
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We’ve talked about it a LOT already.
I’ve pointed out several times that the Big 12 by-laws actually directly address the message board/sports talk show host lawyer argument of, “If schools don’t like the GOR, then they could just dissolve the league!” The Big 12 makes it clear that anyone that attempts to circumvent the GOR can have their voting rights suspended by the other “disinterested” members (meaning everyone that is NOT trying to leave the league or get around the GOR), which quashes that dissolution vote from ever happening in the first place.
Now, whether the ACC by-laws contain similar language is an open question. However, the ACC GOR agreement essentially matches the Big 12 GOR and the Big 12 by-laws have been public for years where the ACC could have copied them verbatim.
In any event, by-laws are generally written to ensure that schools trying to screw the league CANNOT receive a get out of jail free card.
What there have been too many threads are about EVERYTHING on how ACC schools getting out of the GOR for free on a technicality or legal procedure that have already been addressed by the highest paid law firms in the country. What there is an utter lack of discussion is the one thing that matters: how much can FSU or any other school can afford to buy out the GOR and is that amount worth it compared to the gains they’d get in the Big Ten or SEC?
Just going by average school payouts, the ACC rights for the next 13 is over $400 million per school. Any rational economic actor in the ACC is going to set the GOR buyout at that amount as a *minimum* (and realistically higher for the most valuable schools). I ask in every thread on this topic about whether all of those complaining ACC fans think that their school can afford or is willing to pay that amount and I continue to get crickets. Everyone wants some magical outside force like a legal technicality, dissolution, or ESPN money to save them from a perfectly valid and enforceable contract that neither the bottom half of the ACC nor ESPN itself has ANY rational incentive to even consider prior to around 2030.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - BruceMcF - 04-16-2023 12:47 PM
(04-16-2023 12:41 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: There's a distinction here: eight schools could not "leave" the ACC and void the GOR, but if a majority of ACC schools voted to terminate the conference entirely, the GOR would not longer apply.
Yes, that's the point. If exclusive rights are granted to an entity that ceases to exist, and the rights are not transferred as part of the process of its dissolution, it seems like the rights would revert to the original granting parties.
The ByLaws question would be what super-majority is required to dissolve the ACC. If the prior discussion arrived at 10 schools required to dissolve the conference, I presume that someone hunted that supermajority down and it turned out to be 2/3, where 10 is 2/3 of 15.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - johnbragg - 04-16-2023 12:54 PM
(04-16-2023 12:43 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(04-16-2023 12:18 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: I just thought it would be a fun discussion topic for the realignment board since I didn't see a thread on it. It's no surprise certain ACC teams want out. The debate should be about the GOR and is there a so called loophole of x number of members leave. This isn't to make Swaim seem credible but just to discuss the subject. I could care less who said it. I'm sure teams are exploring their options to see if there is a way out before 2036.
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We’ve talked about it a LOT already.
I’ve pointed out several times that the Big 12 by-laws actually directly address the message board/sports talk show host lawyer argument of, “If schools don’t like the GOR, then they could just dissolve the league!” The Big 12 makes it clear that anyone that attempts to circumvent the GOR can have their voting rights suspended by the other “disinterested” members (meaning everyone that is NOT trying to leave the league or get around the GOR), which quashes that dissolution vote from ever happening in the first place.
Now, whether the ACC by-laws contain similar language.
Well, we have the ACC bylaws from 2020-21. They don't seem to say anything about the voting threshold to dissolve the conference.
The threshold in North Carolina state law is a majority of the directors. But IANAL, so I have no idea if that would hold up in court against a minority faction of directors opposing dissolution, where big time money is at stake.
There are supermajority thresholds in teh ACC bylaws, 2/3 and 3/4, for amending the bylaws and the consitution, for amending the financial bylaws. So, logically, how couid you dissolve the conference with a lesser majority than it would take to change the bylaws of the conference?
On the other hand, maybe the judge says "tough noogies to yer logic, the state law says majority."
I suspect we'd need an expert in North Carolina case law, and they're answer might well be "The judge would have to settle it" -- in other words, it's a crapshoot because there's not much relevant precedent. I don't know how many nonprofits have dissolved that were distributing hundreds of millions of dollars a year to their members.
RE: ACC teams could leave and end GOR (from uncredible Swaim) - Once a Knight... - 04-16-2023 12:54 PM
(04-16-2023 12:41 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: There's a distinction here: eight schools could not "leave" the ACC and void the GOR, but if a bylaws majority of ACC schools voted to dissolve the conference entirely, the GOR would not longer apply.Now that is an interesting thought. ESPN is very vested in the ACC however so you'd think they'd be trying to prevent any defections, especially to the B1G. Of course if they want further consolidation and lowering their overall conference payouts I suppose they could shut down the ACC entirely. Would 8 be enough to dissolve the conference? Couldn't the other 6 just backfill from the AAC? Would think it would take at least 10-12 leaving in one fell swoop (but when has that ever really happened as typically realignment is staggered by weeks or months).
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