(01-24-2023 02:10 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 11:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 03:06 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  That would be 'intents and purposes'. We'll see. The B12 hemorrhaged more teams in recent years than all other P5 conferences combined, yet the conference lingers as its fans still entertain fantasies of being giant killers.

No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

Other than Utah and Oregon (and maybe WSU and Arizona), I fail to see which PAC school has better penetration in its market than, say, USF or Houston.

(and Houston is a market of 7.1 million; about as big as the state of Washington and growing at 25% per decade)

Houston does not have penetration in their own market. Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma, other SEC schools, Pac-12 schools. They are more productive when it comes to recruiting in the Houston area market for football than the Cougars.

Seattle loves their Seahawks and Huskies. In 2019, the last year before Covid, the Huskies averaged 68,238 fans per game and the Seahawks 68,990 fans per game. That same year, the Houston Cougars averaged 25,518 fans and the Houston Texans averaged 71,793 fans per game. When it comes to TV, the Huskies will be No. 1 in their market and the whole region, including Alaska. The Houston Cougars are at best No. 3 in their market.

(01-26-2023 01:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:10 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 11:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 09:56 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  No, the Big 12 has fans, that's the real difference.

Even when they lost most of their best products, they were never bereft of good competition or decent sized fan bases. The PAC 12, by contrast, just doesn't have great penetration in its own market. It's not necessarily their fault, the culture is different.

Whether the Big 12 schools genuinely believe they are strong enough to ascend to the elite level doesn't really matter. The PAC 12 has an abundance of self-belief...didn't make a difference.

What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

Other than Utah and Oregon (and maybe WSU and Arizona), I fail to see which PAC school has better penetration in its market than, say, USF or Houston.

(and Houston is a market of 7.1 million; about as big as the state of Washington and growing at 25% per decade)

Houston does not have penetration in their own market. Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma, other SEC schools, Pac-12 schools. They are more productive when it comes to recruiting in the Houston area market for football than the Cougars.

Seattle loves their Seahawks and Huskies. In 2019, the last year before Covid, the Huskies averaged 68,238 fans per game and the Seahawks 68,990 fans per game. That same year, the Houston Cougars averaged 25,518 fans and the Houston Texans averaged 71,793 fans per game. When it comes to TV, the Huskies will be No. 1 in their market and the whole region, including Alaska. The Houston Cougars are at best No. 3 in their market.

Maybe. But a dozen or so years ago Houston was still #2 even while in CUSA. The Houston paper would put out the weekly local TV sports ratings. Texas A&M keeps pumping out massive numbers of grads, so they may have passed UH. Houston was a bigger, often much bigger school, than A&M until around 1990, and its grads mostly stay in the Houston area.

(01-26-2023 03:31 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2023 01:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:10 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 11:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-23-2023 02:28 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  What’s left of the PAC is mostly the schools that DO have good penetration in their markets. They just don’t have big markets.

Other than Utah and Oregon (and maybe WSU and Arizona), I fail to see which PAC school has better penetration in its market than, say, USF or Houston.

(and Houston is a market of 7.1 million; about as big as the state of Washington and growing at 25% per decade)

Houston does not have penetration in their own market. Texas A&M, Texas, Oklahoma, other SEC schools, Pac-12 schools. They are more productive when it comes to recruiting in the Houston area market for football than the Cougars.

Seattle loves their Seahawks and Huskies. In 2019, the last year before Covid, the Huskies averaged 68,238 fans per game and the Seahawks 68,990 fans per game. That same year, the Houston Cougars averaged 25,518 fans and the Houston Texans averaged 71,793 fans per game. When it comes to TV, the Huskies will be No. 1 in their market and the whole region, including Alaska. The Houston Cougars are at best No. 3 in their market.

Maybe. But a dozen or so years ago Houston was still #2 even while in CUSA. The Houston paper would put out the weekly local TV sports ratings. Texas A&M keeps pumping out massive numbers of grads, so they may have passed UH. Houston was a bigger, often much bigger school, than A&M until around 1990, and its grads mostly stay in the Houston area.

As a kid in Texas, you are either with the Longhorns or the Aggies. They are the top two college football teams in Texas, by popularity and by recruiting. Not always by performance. U of H is just not thought of in that way, even in Houston. I have family members and friends in Houston that graduated from U of H, and they are Longhorn or Aggie fans first. They also root for the Cougars, but it is not the same. Ask a football fan in Texas about Sark or Jimbo, you can end up in a long conversation. Ask about Dana, and they go, "Who?"