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The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - DawgNBama - 01-19-2023 12:13 AM
This quote from D2 football.com irritates me:
Quote:IUPNation
IUPNation
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 123246
#3034
01-18-2023, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
DB from Carlisle IUP offered a couple days ago got a St. Francis offer yesterday.
The choice here is go to a fake D1 school in a town that nobody outside of Cambria County knows is there and be first round sacrifice in the FCS playoffs like they were this year or go to a better D2 school in an actual town and compete in the D2 playoffs for a few rounds.
How can anyone say that D2 is superior to D1???
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - 46566 - 01-19-2023 12:20 AM
The only thing I can think of is transfer portal fodder. Maybe they are trying to sell they're school as a place to transfer away from. Use the D2 school to transfer into a better FCS team or a low FBS school? Though it's a D2 board so it's biased. Though depending on the schools involved the bottom 10-20 could potentially have problems with the top 10-20 of the lower division. They're probably recruiting the same level of players.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - IWokeUpLikeThis - 01-19-2023 12:33 AM
If my football offers are West Texas A&M and Saint Francis, I’m picking West Texas A&M.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - TexanMark - 01-19-2023 12:54 AM
IUP actually is a better program
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - C2__ - 01-19-2023 01:21 AM
What is IUP short for?
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - DawgNBama - 01-19-2023 01:22 AM
Indiana University of Pennsylvania
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - The Cutter of Bish - 01-19-2023 06:56 AM
(01-19-2023 12:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote: IUP actually is a better program
Yup. I don’t know if it’s a better school, but, with thoughts of transferability in mind, IUP is going to do more for you than St. Francis.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - MattBrownEP - 01-19-2023 08:39 AM
(01-19-2023 12:13 AM)DawgNBama Wrote: How can anyone say that D2 is superior to D1???
I mean, in many places, it is!
A DII school may very well offer more scholarship money than a lower level FCS team. There are high level DII programs that are absolutely *better at football* than FCS teams, just like there are FCS programs that are better than FBS ones. It's also entirely possible that an athlete could have a better experience at a DII school than a DI, experience better coaching, enjoy more fan support, compete for more championships, and have better support, at a DII school.
Classification level isn't the end all, be all.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - quo vadis - 01-19-2023 09:18 AM
Well IMO, if the best offers you are receiving are from schools like this, the professional dream is probably dead, so best to just go where you get the best education, and if you really do love the game, will get more playing time.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - johnintx - 01-19-2023 09:52 AM
I didn't realize St Francis (PA) had football, but I knew IUP was a strong D-II program.
FCS is not equal. That's the choice of the schools competing in it. St Francis and the Northeast Conference play with a maximum of 40 scholarships. They're competitive among themselves, but they're cannon fodder for another school in the playoffs.
IUP is a D-II power. I'm not sure if they fully fund the D-II max of 36 scholarships, but they're probably close.
So there's not that much difference between the two programs, other than designation (FCS vs D-II). A player can make a deeper playoff run at a lower level.
In this situation, there's not a ton of difference between FCS and D-II. However, there's a big difference between a FCS school that fully funds 63 scholarships (i.e., North Dakota State) and a fully funded D-II school.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - TDenverFan - 01-19-2023 10:04 AM
The NEC (Where St Francis plays) limits schools to 45 scholarships, so in that respect it's pretty comparable to D2.
St. Francis and IUP are very different schools, you could justify picking either one, depending on what you're looking for as a student.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - quo vadis - 01-19-2023 10:08 AM
(01-19-2023 10:04 AM)TDenverFan Wrote: The NEC (Where St Francis plays) limits schools to 45 scholarships, so in that respect it's pretty comparable to D2.
St. Francis and IUP are very different schools, you could justify picking either one, depending on what you're looking for as a student.
I like the bolded. At the level of either school, IMO a player isn't positioning themselves to be seen by pro scouts and there likely isn't any NIL worth mentioning on the table.
It's about leveraging football to reduce the costs of getting a college education, while having some fun playing on the side, so the academic quality and programs offered should be decisive.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - TDenverFan - 01-19-2023 10:18 AM
I looked it up out of curiosity, St Francis had just 3 home games this year, and averaged about 1,500 fans a game. For their 5 regular season home games, IUP was pulling closer to 5k fans.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - johnintx - 01-19-2023 10:40 AM
(01-19-2023 10:18 AM)TDenverFan Wrote: I looked it up out of curiosity, St Francis had just 3 home games this year, and averaged about 1,500 fans a game. For their 5 regular season home games, IUP was pulling closer to 5k fans.
Makes sense. IUP is a medium-sized state school playing other state schools that the local fans have heard of. They've been playing the same schools for decades. It's a familiar product.
St. Francis is a small private school playing NEC schools that don't have the name recognition among the locals.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - AssKickingChicken - 01-19-2023 01:57 PM
FBS>FCS but would you rather play at NDSU or Wyoming?
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - Inkblot - 01-19-2023 02:08 PM
(01-19-2023 12:13 AM)DawgNBama Wrote: This quote from D2 football.com irritates me:
Quote:IUPNation
IUPNation
D2Football.com Donor - 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022
Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 123246
#3034
01-18-2023, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
DB from Carlisle IUP offered a couple days ago got a St. Francis offer yesterday.
The choice here is go to a fake D1 school in a town that nobody outside of Cambria County knows is there and be first round sacrifice in the FCS playoffs like they were this year or go to a better D2 school in an actual town and compete in the D2 playoffs for a few rounds.
How can anyone say that D2 is superior to D1???
I should mention that IUPNation is the most notorious troll on the D2 boards.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - DawgNBama - 01-19-2023 04:37 PM
(01-19-2023 09:52 AM)johnintx Wrote: I didn't realize St Francis (PA) had football, but I knew IUP was a strong D-II program.
FCS is not equal. That's the choice of the schools competing in it. St Francis and the Northeast Conference play with a maximum of 40 scholarships. They're competitive among themselves, but they're cannon fodder for another school in the playoffs.
IUP is a D-II power. I'm not sure if they fully fund the D-II max of 36 scholarships, but they're probably close.
So there's not that much difference between the two programs, other than designation (FCS vs D-II). A player can make a deeper playoff run at a lower level.
In this situation, there's not a ton of difference between FCS and D-II. However, there's a big difference between a FCS school that fully funds 63 scholarships (i.e., North Dakota State) and a fully funded D-II school.
IUP posters firmly believe that they would never win a national championship in basketball if they went D1. My point is that they don't understand the benefits of D1 and believe that there's no difference between FCS & D2, and that D1 basketball is a murderers' row!!!
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - Hradmiralsfan - 01-19-2023 05:28 PM
My wife is an IUP alumni and I went to Shepherd my freshman year so I’m a little biased but I 100% think multiple schools in the PSAC could easily compete in the NEC and for that matter even the OVC. IUP is a pretty large school maybe 10,000 students great college town with a better basketball arena than JSU and a lot of other D1 schools. Shepherd, and Shippensburg always seem well run and then you have Slippery Rock and West Chester who also put a priority on athletics. They stay D2 because they are in a conference where their farthest game is maybe 4 hours from campus. The PSAC is a legit conference at all sports
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - johnintx - 01-19-2023 07:09 PM
(01-19-2023 04:37 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:(01-19-2023 09:52 AM)johnintx Wrote: I didn't realize St Francis (PA) had football, but I knew IUP was a strong D-II program.
FCS is not equal. That's the choice of the schools competing in it. St Francis and the Northeast Conference play with a maximum of 40 scholarships. They're competitive among themselves, but they're cannon fodder for another school in the playoffs.
IUP is a D-II power. I'm not sure if they fully fund the D-II max of 36 scholarships, but they're probably close.
So there's not that much difference between the two programs, other than designation (FCS vs D-II). A player can make a deeper playoff run at a lower level.
In this situation, there's not a ton of difference between FCS and D-II. However, there's a big difference between a FCS school that fully funds 63 scholarships (i.e., North Dakota State) and a fully funded D-II school.
IUP posters firmly believe that they would never win a national championship in basketball if they went D1. My point is that they don't understand the benefits of D1 and believe that there's no difference between FCS & D2, and that D1 basketball is a murderers' row!!!
I've been to Indiana, PA. They have a nice hoops facility. They have a basic D2 football stadium. And I've seen some of their posters on the D2 board...yeah, they think highly of themselves.
They're right in this: they'd never win a D1 national championship in hoops. They have to calculate what's worth more: a chance to be a national power at their level, playing nearby rivals and peers, with no national exposure; or being in a lower-level D1 conference, getting trickle-down money from the NCAA, playing in a one-bid league with a shot to be one-and-done in the Big Dance, and getting their name on ESPN's ticker. They've chosen the former. To each their own.
There are serious financial issues with the PA regional state university system, as six of their sister institutions have consolidated into two. IUP is one of their bigger schools, but they're not in a position to move up. So, they're going to be the best D2 they can be.
Their D2 teams would beat a lot of low-level D1 teams in hoops. Today, they could also compete with lesser funded football programs.
So there is some gray area between the top of D2 and the bottom of D1, especially depending on what area of the country you're in.
RE: The mentality of IUP & other D2 progams - Hradmiralsfan - 01-19-2023 08:36 PM
(01-19-2023 07:09 PM)johnintx Wrote:(01-19-2023 04:37 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:(01-19-2023 09:52 AM)johnintx Wrote: I didn't realize St Francis (PA) had football, but I knew IUP was a strong D-II program.
FCS is not equal. That's the choice of the schools competing in it. St Francis and the Northeast Conference play with a maximum of 40 scholarships. They're competitive among themselves, but they're cannon fodder for another school in the playoffs.
IUP is a D-II power. I'm not sure if they fully fund the D-II max of 36 scholarships, but they're probably close.
So there's not that much difference between the two programs, other than designation (FCS vs D-II). A player can make a deeper playoff run at a lower level.
In this situation, there's not a ton of difference between FCS and D-II. However, there's a big difference between a FCS school that fully funds 63 scholarships (i.e., North Dakota State) and a fully funded D-II school.
IUP posters firmly believe that they would never win a national championship in basketball if they went D1. My point is that they don't understand the benefits of D1 and believe that there's no difference between FCS & D2, and that D1 basketball is a murderers' row!!!
I've been to Indiana, PA. They have a nice hoops facility. They have a basic D2 football stadium. And I've seen some of their posters on the D2 board...yeah, they think highly of themselves.
They're right in this: they'd never win a D1 national championship in hoops. They have to calculate what's worth more: a chance to be a national power at their level, playing nearby rivals and peers, with no national exposure; or being in a lower-level D1 conference, getting trickle-down money from the NCAA, playing in a one-bid league with a shot to be one-and-done in the Big Dance, and getting their name on ESPN's ticker. They've chosen the former. To each their own.
There are serious financial issues with the PA regional state university system, as six of their sister institutions have consolidated into two. IUP is one of their bigger schools, but they're not in a position to move up. So, they're going to be the best D2 they can be.
Their D2 teams would beat a lot of low-level D1 teams in hoops. Today, they could also compete with lesser funded football programs.
So there is some gray area between the top of D2 and the bottom of D1, especially depending on what area of the country you're in.
I actually think some of the financial issues facing some of the smaller schools is also a reason why a school like IUP or Ship doesn’t move up. With them being state funded I’d imagine the PA legislature would be a little ticked off if IUP abandoned Clarion (granted Clarion is D1 wrestling and one of the top wrestling schools in the nation).
Right now a school like Ship can play a game in shepherdstown, Millersville, West Chester or Straudsburg maybe 90 minutes to 2 hours from campus and average crowds about the same size they’d get as a FCS school.