+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: AACbbs (/forum-460.html)
+---- Forum: Members (/forum-401.html)
+----- Forum: MemphisTigers.org (/forum-446.html)
+------ Forum: Dockery-Finch Memorial Tiger Sports Forum (/forum-499.html)
+------ Thread: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 (/thread-962867.html)
Pages: 1 2
This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Stammers - 01-05-2023 11:38 AM
I am one of the most positive and optimistic posters when it comes to future expectations for our current basketball and football teams. Having said that, I believe that the current basketball team has a lower ceiling than the past two seasons.
To get it out of the way, I think the football team has a higher ceiling, just because of how many close losses we had, and how many blown leads we had. I think game management is much more correctible than having inferior talent.
Back to basketball. Looking back on the two prior seasons, we apparently had bad chemistry in the locker room, and bad chemistry on the court. Also, we went through periods without Williams where we were horrible. It wasn't just the record. It was the quality of the wins with him, the lack of quality wins without him, and the bad losses to horrible teams. We probably have a NET in the 20's with him, and a NET in the 100's without him.
2021 and 2022 Seasons
35-12 with DW
7-7 without DW
The bottom line is that we don't seem to be dysfunctional this year. We don't seem to have troublemakers that need half of the season to get their heads on straight and we have DW for the entire season.
We also have some major shortcomings. We are 100% missing a quality big, we don't shoot well from outside, and right now we don't defend very well. As long as Dandridge is hurt and for that matter anyone is hurt, it is going to affect us.
I do think that we are going to get the maximum out of what we have. Obviously, we will still see the same dozen or so psychos freaking out in game threads and going into hysterics about how bad the team is and how Penny sucks whenever we have a few bad possessions in a row, or heaven forbid, lose a game.
The 2021 and 2022 teams would have at least been Sweet 16 teams, if Williams was available the whole season (that alone would have made us a 4-6 seed) and if they would have figured out how to play without him. This team I don't think has that potential.
I'm not going to be happy when we lose and for sure I hope we don't lose too many games to teams like Tulane or anyone else that isn't Houston for that matter. BUT I'm not going to freak out. The players play hard, they aren't selfish, they seem to get along and there isn't the bickering and bad body language this year that we have seen the last two years. I think that Penny is going to come close to getting the best out of them.
If that means they are a Sweet 16 team, great. If they means that they are an NIT team, then that's obviously not as good, but that's that and we should support them regardless.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - msu35 - 01-05-2023 11:55 AM
We could certainly have a lower ceiling than last year's team, but there are still some variables at play. As you mention, we're lacking a quality big, although it's possible that Kao could develop into the role given more game experience. I suspect Dandrige's injury will prevent him from being as effective as I had hoped, so developing Kao takes on greater importance.
Last year, we didn't have as effective a point guard as we have in Davis this year. If he can tighten up his shooting and improve his percentages, that would help. The last game, our perimeter shooting improved substantially and we were far more effective from three. Thus far, Franklin hasn't been quite the factor that I was hoping he would be, but we've only had him a few games, so I'm willing to reserve judgement for the time being. If he comes into his own, that will make a tremendous difference. This is also Lomax's best season to date.
Ultimately, my gut tells me we're not as talented in general as we were last year, but there also seems to be a team cohesiveness that was lacking last season. Lots of variables, but I'm still not convinced we won't make the tournament and will be relegated to the NIT. No matter what happens, I'll cheer for and support the team and will remain very optimistic for next year with the recruiting class Penny is assembling.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Stammers - 01-05-2023 11:58 AM
(01-05-2023 11:55 AM)msu35 Wrote: We could certainly have a lower ceiling than last year's team, but there are still some variables at play. As you mention, we're lacking a quality big, although it's possible that Kao could develop into the role given more game experience. I suspect Dandrige's injury will prevent him from being as effective as I had hoped, so developing Kao takes on greater importance.
Last year, we didn't have as effective a point guard as we have in Davis this year. If he can tighten up his shooting and improve his percentages, that would help. The last game, our perimeter shooting improved substantially and we were far more effective from three. Thus far, Franklin hasn't been quite the factor that I was hoping he would be, but we've only had him a few games, so I'm willing to reserve judgement for the time being. If he comes into his own, that will make a tremendous difference. This is also Lomax's best season to date.
Ultimately, my gut tells me we're not as talented in general as we were last year, but there also seems to be a team cohesiveness that was lacking last season. Lots of variables, but I'm still not convinced we won't make the tournament and will be relegated to the NIT. No matter what happens, I'll cheer for and support the team and will remain very optimistic for next year with the recruiting class Penny is assembling.
I agree. I think that Davis is going to improve and I think Franklin will be awesome by in the last 10 games of the season and the post season.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Marc Mensa - 01-05-2023 12:06 PM
This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - msu35 - 01-05-2023 12:09 PM
(01-05-2023 12:06 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
I know, I know, complaining about officials again; but, the refs handed Gonzaga the game last year by letting Timme get away with anything and everything. It was frustrating to say the least.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Marc Mensa - 01-05-2023 12:37 PM
(01-05-2023 12:09 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:06 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
I know, I know, complaining about officials again; but, the refs handed Gonzaga the game last year by letting Timme get away with anything and everything. It was frustrating to say the least.
Last year’s squad should have never been an 8/9 seed.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - msu35 - 01-05-2023 12:40 PM
(01-05-2023 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:09 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:06 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
I know, I know, complaining about officials again; but, the refs handed Gonzaga the game last year by letting Timme get away with anything and everything. It was frustrating to say the least.
Last year’s squad should have never been an 8/9 seed.
I don't disagree, but dropping to cupcakes early in the year did us zero favors. It also didn't influence the officiating in the Gonzaga game.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Stammers - 01-05-2023 12:47 PM
(01-05-2023 12:06 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
I completely agree.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Marc Mensa - 01-05-2023 12:48 PM
(01-05-2023 12:40 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:09 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:06 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
I know, I know, complaining about officials again; but, the refs handed Gonzaga the game last year by letting Timme get away with anything and everything. It was frustrating to say the least.
Last year’s squad should have never been an 8/9 seed.
I don't disagree, but dropping to cupcakes early in the year did us zero favors. It also didn't influence the officiating in the Gonzaga game.
Last year’s squad was an uber talented, yet completely dysfunctional mess. Yes, the refs did allow Timme to control the 2nd half & compromised Duren by saddling him with phantom fouls. That being said, we should have never been in a 2nd round game against the tournaments #1 seed.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - msu35 - 01-05-2023 12:55 PM
(01-05-2023 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:40 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:09 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:06 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: This team is not nearly as talented as last years squad, but we could very well end up landing in the same place… round of 32. For last years team, the round 2 exit was a disappointment. For this year’s team, it would be an accomplishment.
I know, I know, complaining about officials again; but, the refs handed Gonzaga the game last year by letting Timme get away with anything and everything. It was frustrating to say the least.
Last year’s squad should have never been an 8/9 seed.
I don't disagree, but dropping to cupcakes early in the year did us zero favors. It also didn't influence the officiating in the Gonzaga game.
Last year’s squad was an uber talented, yet completely dysfunctional mess. Yes, the refs did allow Timme to control the 2nd half & compromised Duren by saddling him with phantom fouls. That being said, we should have never been in a 2nd round game against the tournaments #1 seed.
Can't disagree, and I don't care if I get flack for this, but I feel the NCAA was never going to allow Gonzaga to drop out in the second round. It's not good for television, especially to a school that very publicly gave the NCAA the middle finger.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Marc Mensa - 01-05-2023 01:27 PM
(01-05-2023 12:55 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:40 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:09 PM)msu35 Wrote: I know, I know, complaining about officials again; but, the refs handed Gonzaga the game last year by letting Timme get away with anything and everything. It was frustrating to say the least.
Last year’s squad should have never been an 8/9 seed.
I don't disagree, but dropping to cupcakes early in the year did us zero favors. It also didn't influence the officiating in the Gonzaga game.
Last year’s squad was an uber talented, yet completely dysfunctional mess. Yes, the refs did allow Timme to control the 2nd half & compromised Duren by saddling him with phantom fouls. That being said, we should have never been in a 2nd round game against the tournaments #1 seed.
Can't disagree, and I don't care if I get flack for this, but I feel the NCAA was never going to allow Gonzaga to drop out in the second round. It's not good for television, especially to a school that very publicly gave the NCAA the middle finger.
Had we knocked down a few of those uncontested 3’s, we shot 4-19 from beyond the arc, and held Nembhard & Bolton to their season averages, then we would have won regardless. Arkansas’ guards shut down those 2 guys, and its what won them the game.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - msu35 - 01-05-2023 01:30 PM
(01-05-2023 01:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Had we knocked down a few of those uncontested 3’s, we shot 4-19 from beyond the arc, and held Nembhard & Bolton to their season averages, then we would have won regardless. Arkansas’ guards shut down those 2 guys, and its what won them the game.
Sure, but the refs ultimately decided our game, unless you watched a very different game than I did. Perhaps its best to agree to disagree.
This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - cscottl1981 - 01-05-2023 02:02 PM
If Malco gets healthy anytime in the near future and we avoid other major injuries, the NIT would be a disappointment. This team isn’t as talented as other teams Penny has had, but the expectation should be that they (at least) make the tournament.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - micman - 01-05-2023 02:11 PM
(01-05-2023 01:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:55 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:40 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:37 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Last year’s squad should have never been an 8/9 seed.
I don't disagree, but dropping to cupcakes early in the year did us zero favors. It also didn't influence the officiating in the Gonzaga game.
Last year’s squad was an uber talented, yet completely dysfunctional mess. Yes, the refs did allow Timme to control the 2nd half & compromised Duren by saddling him with phantom fouls. That being said, we should have never been in a 2nd round game against the tournaments #1 seed.
Can't disagree, and I don't care if I get flack for this, but I feel the NCAA was never going to allow Gonzaga to drop out in the second round. It's not good for television, especially to a school that very publicly gave the NCAA the middle finger.
Had we knocked down a few of those uncontested 3’s, we shot 4-19 from beyond the arc, and held Nembhard & Bolton to their season averages, then we would have won regardless. Arkansas’ guards shut down those 2 guys, and its what won them the game.
We let Nembhard have 3 uncontested, wide-open 3s. That was the game. Somehow, when I was yelling at the TV in Memphis, they couldn't hear me in Portland.
When a first-team all american starts hitting 17-foot turn around backboard shots over a 6-10 NBA starter, nothing you can do. But you can cover their best perimeter threat and make sure he doesn't get wide open looks.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - micman - 01-05-2023 02:24 PM
This team has to play really, really good defense to win. We really almost need to hold teams below 70 points to ensure we win. Reminds me of the Grit and Grind Grizzlies--you could almost always tell if the other team scored over 100, we likely lost.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - UofMemphis - 01-05-2023 02:49 PM
once you get to the tourney their is no ceiling.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Stammers - 01-05-2023 03:29 PM
(01-05-2023 02:11 PM)micman Wrote:(01-05-2023 01:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:55 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:40 PM)msu35 Wrote: I don't disagree, but dropping to cupcakes early in the year did us zero favors. It also didn't influence the officiating in the Gonzaga game.
Last year’s squad was an uber talented, yet completely dysfunctional mess. Yes, the refs did allow Timme to control the 2nd half & compromised Duren by saddling him with phantom fouls. That being said, we should have never been in a 2nd round game against the tournaments #1 seed.
Can't disagree, and I don't care if I get flack for this, but I feel the NCAA was never going to allow Gonzaga to drop out in the second round. It's not good for television, especially to a school that very publicly gave the NCAA the middle finger.
Had we knocked down a few of those uncontested 3’s, we shot 4-19 from beyond the arc, and held Nembhard & Bolton to their season averages, then we would have won regardless. Arkansas’ guards shut down those 2 guys, and its what won them the game.
We let Nembhard have 3 uncontested, wide-open 3s. That was the game. Somehow, when I was yelling at the TV in Memphis, they couldn't hear me in Portland.
When a first-team all american starts hitting 17-foot turn around backboard shots over a 6-10 NBA starter, nothing you can do. But you can cover their best perimeter threat and make sure he doesn't get wide open looks.
There is nothing you can do when the other team is shooting free throws at the 10 minute mark, and they go 12 minutes without calling a foul on them. There is nothing you can do when they are letting Holmgren and Timme hack, and calling touch fouls on Duren and DW.
IF the game is called fair and square we beat them by 10. If they call the game lopsided in our favour, we would have murdered them. Holmgren and Timme would have had 2 fouls each at the 8 minute mark of the first half, and 4 fouls with 10 minutes left in the game.
Anything close to fair and it would have been an easy win, kind of like our win against Auburn. NOT comparing them to Auburn, just saying it would have been the same type of game.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - SeñorTiger - 01-05-2023 05:02 PM
(01-05-2023 03:29 PM)Stammers Wrote:(01-05-2023 02:11 PM)micman Wrote:(01-05-2023 01:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:55 PM)msu35 Wrote:(01-05-2023 12:48 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote: Last year’s squad was an uber talented, yet completely dysfunctional mess. Yes, the refs did allow Timme to control the 2nd half & compromised Duren by saddling him with phantom fouls. That being said, we should have never been in a 2nd round game against the tournaments #1 seed.
Can't disagree, and I don't care if I get flack for this, but I feel the NCAA was never going to allow Gonzaga to drop out in the second round. It's not good for television, especially to a school that very publicly gave the NCAA the middle finger.
Had we knocked down a few of those uncontested 3’s, we shot 4-19 from beyond the arc, and held Nembhard & Bolton to their season averages, then we would have won regardless. Arkansas’ guards shut down those 2 guys, and its what won them the game.
We let Nembhard have 3 uncontested, wide-open 3s. That was the game. Somehow, when I was yelling at the TV in Memphis, they couldn't hear me in Portland.
When a first-team all american starts hitting 17-foot turn around backboard shots over a 6-10 NBA starter, nothing you can do. But you can cover their best perimeter threat and make sure he doesn't get wide open looks.
There is nothing you can do when the other team is shooting free throws at the 10 minute mark, and they go 12 minutes without calling a foul on them. There is nothing you can do when they are letting Holmgren and Timme hack, and calling touch fouls on Duren and DW.
IF the game is called fair and square we beat them by 10. If they call the game lopsided in our favour, we would have murdered them. Holmgren and Timme would have had 2 fouls each at the 8 minute mark of the first half, and 4 fouls with 10 minutes left in the game.
Anything close to fair and it would have been an easy win, kind of like our win against Auburn. NOT comparing them to Auburn, just saying it would have been the same type of game.
I said this last year after the games...
Both can be true.
If we knock down some easy and wide open shots we win.
If the refs call a remotely fair game we win.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - Tiger87 - 01-05-2023 06:30 PM
Agree with most here.
A big difference could be we end up with a 6(ish) seed, due to not struggling early in the schedule.
We get that, and a run to the S16 could be ours for the taking.
We could knock off a 3-seed.
RE: This Team Has A Lower Ceiling Than 2021 & 2022 - msu35 - 01-05-2023 06:34 PM
(01-05-2023 06:30 PM)Tiger87 Wrote: Agree with most here.
A big difference could be we end up with a 6(ish) seed, due to not struggling early in the schedule.
We get that, and a run to the S16 could be ours for the taking.
We could knock off a 3-seed.
If we're firing on all cylinders, playing quality defense, and making our shots; my tendency is to agree. I just hope the team will get their groove and begin playing consistently on a game to game basis. The way we played against South Florida or Tulane isn't going to cut it, but I still have great hope that Penny can work out the kinks and get everyone's head straight.