(05-22-2023 04:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Getting the G5 teams is just a short term money grab. Still, given the uncertainty, Phillips needs to leverage this in negotiation with ESPN.

The B12 lost four teams before but experienced a pay increase per team.

If ESPN doesn’t want the ACC to get the G5 teams, then let them give the ACC a small bump.

If ESPN doesn’t budge, then the ACC should add the most palatable G5 programs and give them a half (or less) share.

If ESPN rather wants the ACC to add the Pac schools, ask much more than the pro rata.

Now which G5 programs would be acceptable?

SMU is one. I cannot think of another. Maybe UConn (non football) / Navy (football) combo?

(05-23-2023 01:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(05-22-2023 04:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Getting the G5 teams is just a short term money grab. Still, given the uncertainty, Phillips needs to leverage this in negotiation with ESPN.

The B12 lost four teams before but experienced a pay increase per team.

If ESPN doesn’t want the ACC to get the G5 teams, then let them give the ACC a small bump.

If ESPN doesn’t budge, then the ACC should add the most palatable G5 programs and give them a half (or less) share.

If ESPN rather wants the ACC to add the Pac schools, ask much more than the pro rata.

Now which G5 programs would be acceptable?

SMU is one. I cannot think of another. Maybe UConn (non football) / Navy (football) combo?

Expanding with a couple of G5 programs is too small & short-sighted. Eventually they become full members, but they’re unlikely to have the foundations to be competitive at the highest level. It’s a risky proposition, likely resulting in a mouth-to-feed or diluting the overall product. This type of defensive expansion will result in more future attrition.

Now that unequal revenue has passed, ACC expansion can take this concept to the next level. Add six PAC programs (hopefully UW, OU, Stanford, Cal, Utah and ASU) and move to a 20-team conference. Split football into two 10-team tiers: 1) elite football programs get $5M per year payout bonus and only commit to 8 conference games, 2) traditional football has to play a 9-game conference schedule. The ACC would be creating value for ESPN. Brands are more likely to play other brands; stronger teams will get stronger schedules; and weaker teams will create more media (P5 v P5) content.

Expansion is about building long-term value.

(05-23-2023 06:27 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 01:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(05-22-2023 04:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Getting the G5 teams is just a short term money grab. Still, given the uncertainty, Phillips needs to leverage this in negotiation with ESPN.

The B12 lost four teams before but experienced a pay increase per team.

If ESPN doesn’t want the ACC to get the G5 teams, then let them give the ACC a small bump.

If ESPN doesn’t budge, then the ACC should add the most palatable G5 programs and give them a half (or less) share.

If ESPN rather wants the ACC to add the Pac schools, ask much more than the pro rata.

Now which G5 programs would be acceptable?

SMU is one. I cannot think of another. Maybe UConn (non football) / Navy (football) combo?

Expanding with a couple of G5 programs is too small & short-sighted. Eventually they become full members, but they’re unlikely to have the foundations to be competitive at the highest level. It’s a risky proposition, likely resulting in a mouth-to-feed or diluting the overall product. This type of defensive expansion will result in more future attrition.

Now that unequal revenue has passed, ACC expansion can take this concept to the next level. Add six PAC programs (hopefully UW, OU, Stanford, Cal, Utah and ASU) and move to a 20-team conference. Split football into two 10-team tiers: 1) elite football programs get $5M per year payout bonus and only commit to 8 conference games, 2) traditional football has to play a 9-game conference schedule. The ACC would be creating value for ESPN. Brands are more likely to play other brands; stronger teams will get stronger schedules; and weaker teams will create more media (P5 v P5) content.

Expansion is about building long-term value.

Stanford + SMU = $60M/team and recruiting in TX and CA

(05-23-2023 01:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(05-22-2023 04:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Getting the G5 teams is just a short term money grab. Still, given the uncertainty, Phillips needs to leverage this in negotiation with ESPN.

The B12 lost four teams before but experienced a pay increase per team.

If ESPN doesn’t want the ACC to get the G5 teams, then let them give the ACC a small bump.

If ESPN doesn’t budge, then the ACC should add the most palatable G5 programs and give them a half (or less) share.

If ESPN rather wants the ACC to add the Pac schools, ask much more than the pro rata.

Now which G5 programs would be acceptable?

SMU is one. I cannot think of another. Maybe UConn (non football) / Navy (football) combo?

Expanding with a couple of G5 programs is too small & short-sighted. Eventually they become full members, but they’re unlikely to have the foundations to be competitive at the highest level. It’s a risky proposition, likely resulting in a mouth-to-feed or diluting the overall product. This type of defensive expansion will result in more future attrition.

Now that unequal revenue has passed, ACC expansion can take this concept to the next level. Add six PAC programs (hopefully UW, OU, Stanford, Cal, Utah and ASU) and move to a 20-team conference. Split football into two 10-team tiers: 1) elite football programs get $5M per year payout bonus and only commit to 8 conference games, 2) traditional football has to play a 9-game conference schedule. The ACC would be creating value for ESPN. Brands are more likely to play other brands; stronger teams will get stronger schedules; and weaker teams will create more media (P5 v P5) content.

Expansion is about building long-term value.

(05-24-2023 05:08 AM)XLance Wrote:  But a poster named DuncanMcShane posted something that just might be likely........maybe not now but in a few years, when schools will have to choose whether athletics are a professional enterprise or not.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-970457-post-18946552.html#pid18946552

ACC
1. Virginia
2. Virginia Tech
3. North Carolina
4. NC State
5. Duke
6. Wake Forest
7. Georgia Tech
8. Vanderbilt
9. Tulane
10. Rice
11. TCU
12. SMU

(05-24-2023 06:06 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I'm curious if the idea of a mutual contraction would pass for all programs to allow these 4 specific teams out of GOR to leave if it was this scenario.

Syracuse & BC go the UConn route and sorta toss away football and get back to their northeast roots by rejoining Big East. As well, UofL and Pitt go ahead and join B12. Letting the rest keep the contract and divy up those 4 schools revenue among them. I imagine FSU/Clemson still wouldn't like the football matchups/atmosphere week to week, but their $ brought in appears to jump to $55+ mil per teams for 11 teams using the $617 mil number recently reported for 2021-22.

Maybe one right solution, is for the recent adds to the ACC to go to more like-minded conferences and just let existing schools take their allowances as their exit fee.

Obviously this wouldn't work for the 4 main teams we hear are half way out the door or at least posturing that way, because ESPN wouldn't allow that. But in this case ESPN loses Cuse & BC, while getting UL and Pitt in their new B12 deal.

Would existing ACC open up the Holy GOR chest, let those 4 out, then slam the chest back shut and weld the top?...

(05-24-2023 05:08 AM)XLance Wrote:  https://csnbbs.com/thread-970457-post-18948790.html#pid18948790

This is what I want

Maryland
UVa
Virginia Tech
Duke
Wake Forest
NC State
Carolina
Clemson
South Carolina
Georgia Tech

But a poster named DuncanMcShane posted something that just might be likely........maybe not now but in a few years, when schools will have to choose whether athletics are a professional enterprise or not.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-970457-post-18946552.html#pid18946552

ACC
1. Virginia
2. Virginia Tech
3. North Carolina
4. NC State
5. Duke
6. Wake Forest
7. Georgia Tech
8. Vanderbilt
9. Tulane
10. Rice
11. TCU
12. SMU

(05-24-2023 06:06 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I'm curious if the idea of a mutual contraction would pass for all programs to allow these 4 specific teams out of GOR to leave if it was this scenario.

Syracuse & BC go the UConn route and sorta toss away football and get back to their northeast roots by rejoining Big East. As well, UofL and Pitt go ahead and join B12. Letting the rest keep the contract and divy up those 4 schools revenue among them. I imagine FSU/Clemson still wouldn't like the football matchups/atmosphere week to week, but their $ brought in appears to jump to $55+ mil per teams for 11 teams using the $617 mil number recently reported for 2021-22.

Maybe one right solution, is for the recent adds to the ACC to go to more like-minded conferences and just let existing schools take their allowances as their exit fee.

Obviously this wouldn't work for the 4 main teams we hear are half way out the door or at least posturing that way, because ESPN wouldn't allow that. But in this case ESPN loses Cuse & BC, while getting UL and Pitt in their new B12 deal.

Would existing ACC open up the Holy GOR chest, let those 4 out, then slam the chest back shut and weld the top?...

(05-24-2023 10:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-24-2023 06:06 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I'm curious if the idea of a mutual contraction would pass for all programs to allow these 4 specific teams out of GOR to leave if it was this scenario.

Syracuse & BC go the UConn route and sorta toss away football and get back to their northeast roots by rejoining Big East. As well, UofL and Pitt go ahead and join B12. Letting the rest keep the contract and divy up those 4 schools revenue among them. I imagine FSU/Clemson still wouldn't like the football matchups/atmosphere week to week, but their $ brought in appears to jump to $55+ mil per teams for 11 teams using the $617 mil number recently reported for 2021-22.

Maybe one right solution, is for the recent adds to the ACC to go to more like-minded conferences and just let existing schools take their allowances as their exit fee.

Obviously this wouldn't work for the 4 main teams we hear are half way out the door or at least posturing that way, because ESPN wouldn't allow that. But in this case ESPN loses Cuse & BC, while getting UL and Pitt in their new B12 deal.

Would existing ACC open up the Holy GOR chest, let those 4 out, then slam the chest back shut and weld the top?...

PROBLEM: If the ACC lost Syracuse, BC, Pitt and Louisville, you might as well shut down the ACCN because New York is the 2nd biggest state (after Florida) and MA and PA are big, too. Louisville provides needed depth in both football and basketball. The ACC would be severely damaged by these moves; ESPN will not go for this.

(05-24-2023 04:24 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-24-2023 10:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-24-2023 06:06 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I'm curious if the idea of a mutual contraction would pass for all programs to allow these 4 specific teams out of GOR to leave if it was this scenario.

Syracuse & BC go the UConn route and sorta toss away football and get back to their northeast roots by rejoining Big East. As well, UofL and Pitt go ahead and join B12. Letting the rest keep the contract and divy up those 4 schools revenue among them. I imagine FSU/Clemson still wouldn't like the football matchups/atmosphere week to week, but their $ brought in appears to jump to $55+ mil per teams for 11 teams using the $617 mil number recently reported for 2021-22.

Maybe one right solution, is for the recent adds to the ACC to go to more like-minded conferences and just let existing schools take their allowances as their exit fee.

Obviously this wouldn't work for the 4 main teams we hear are half way out the door or at least posturing that way, because ESPN wouldn't allow that. But in this case ESPN loses Cuse & BC, while getting UL and Pitt in their new B12 deal.

Would existing ACC open up the Holy GOR chest, let those 4 out, then slam the chest back shut and weld the top?...

PROBLEM: If the ACC lost Syracuse, BC, Pitt and Louisville, you might as well shut down the ACCN because New York is the 2nd biggest state (after Florida) and MA and PA are big, too. Louisville provides needed depth in both football and basketball. The ACC would be severely damaged by these moves; ESPN will not go for this.

New York is the second largest market for ACCN. Syracuse is a contributor, but Duke and Notre Dame contribute more, especially in NYC area. ACCN can still hold New York market if ACC keeps Notre Dame and Duke. I just want the majority of ACC schools don't leave. I think Notre Dame would rather stay at ACC if most of the current ACC schools hold together in ACC. I think if B1G wants 2 ACC schools, it is 50/50. Either UNC/UVA pair or UNC/Duke pair. Then Clemson/Florida State will go to SEC.

(05-22-2023 02:23 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(05-22-2023 01:09 PM)CatsClaw1 Wrote:  

(05-22-2023 09:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-22-2023 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.

This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.

1. YES, the ACC was played. Maybe we should use a stronger word: conned.

2. Staying as-is has caused the ACC to miss out on one opportunity after another. Should I make a list?
- South Carolina (tried to return once)
- Penn State (before Big Ten)
- ACCN (chance for early launch)
- WVU (more than once!)
- Rutgers (meh, but good recruiting)
- Cincinnati (approaced the ACC pre-Big XII)
Those are just the ones I know about.

This is one of those deals where action is risky but inaction is deadly.

That's interesting, I didn't know that at some point South Carolina tried to return to the ACC. I love the breakdown by the way!

The South Carolina story begins when UNC hired Frank McGuire. His connections to the Philadelphia/NYC area because too complicated and they stepped on Duke's prior connections. When the 1961 point shaving scandal erupted in North Carolina, UNC was at the center of it, although Everette Case - long time coach at NC State is who tipped the SBI. Players at both schools had guns and family members threatened.

UNC in particular blamed McGuire. Gordon Gray blamed McGuire. Duke blame anyone with connections into PA other that the, especially connections to Philly. Consequently Duke persecuted McGuire and SC.

This is at a time when industrialists like the Dukes, Cannons, Broyhills. Kenan's, Flaglers, etc., are writing the big checks. UNC could not support McGure at SC with him being his own defacto AD. Without any help from SC, they were at the mercy of all of Duke's ****. The spectacular fights' in the late 60's and early 70 were the final straw with the camel's back broken one night in Maryland.

Not 4 years later SC took UNC's temperature. Clemson and NC State still supported them. However by 75-76 SC had a rival GT. The seven schools had enjoyed the extra 350 ticket books - worth at the time about 8K each in donation to UNC and Duke and 5K each in donation at MD, NC State, UVa, and WF.

That's $3 million in booster club money at Duke and UNC and about $2,5 m at State and MD. This means adding back a school eliminates the books to sell.

SC directly asked UNC for help at least twice, but UNC realized that more money and exposure was in Atlanta.

There were feelers again in the 80's but competing against FSU, or Miami was not contest.

As much as we like to make fun of our Sandlapper, Unreconstructed, Hotheads in Columbia, as much as we detest Columbia and all thing Columbia (Except Rivernbark Zoo) and as much as we detest Mustard Bar B Que - a binding tie remains - rapprochement is always possible, especially if they ask nice.

From personal, professional, political experience I have never met a more arrogant set of creatures on the planet than a true Sandlapping Gamecock. That are so arrogant as to be endearing.

(05-22-2023 04:34 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Getting the G5 teams is just a short term money grab. Still, given the uncertainty, Phillips needs to leverage this in negotiation with ESPN.

The B12 lost four teams before but experienced a pay increase per team.

If ESPN doesn’t want the ACC to get the G5 teams, then let them give the ACC a small bump.

If ESPN doesn’t budge, then the ACC should add the most palatable G5 programs and give them a half (or less) share.

If ESPN rather wants the ACC to add the Pac schools, ask much more than the pro rata.

Now which G5 programs would be acceptable?

SMU is one. I cannot think of another. Maybe UConn (non football) / Navy (football) combo?

(05-24-2023 04:24 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(05-24-2023 10:41 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(05-24-2023 06:06 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  I'm curious if the idea of a mutual contraction would pass for all programs to allow these 4 specific teams out of GOR to leave if it was this scenario.

Syracuse & BC go the UConn route and sorta toss away football and get back to their northeast roots by rejoining Big East. As well, UofL and Pitt go ahead and join B12. Letting the rest keep the contract and divy up those 4 schools revenue among them. I imagine FSU/Clemson still wouldn't like the football matchups/atmosphere week to week, but their $ brought in appears to jump to $55+ mil per teams for 11 teams using the $617 mil number recently reported for 2021-22.

Maybe one right solution, is for the recent adds to the ACC to go to more like-minded conferences and just let existing schools take their allowances as their exit fee.

Obviously this wouldn't work for the 4 main teams we hear are half way out the door or at least posturing that way, because ESPN wouldn't allow that. But in this case ESPN loses Cuse & BC, while getting UL and Pitt in their new B12 deal.

Would existing ACC open up the Holy GOR chest, let those 4 out, then slam the chest back shut and weld the top?...

PROBLEM: If the ACC lost Syracuse, BC, Pitt and Louisville, you might as well shut down the ACCN because New York is the 2nd biggest state (after Florida) and MA and PA are big, too. Louisville provides needed depth in both football and basketball. The ACC would be severely damaged by these moves; ESPN will not go for this.

New York is the second largest market for ACCN. Syracuse is a contributor, but Duke and Notre Dame contribute more, especially in NYC area. ACCN can still hold New York market if ACC keeps Notre Dame and Duke. I just want the majority of ACC schools don't leave. I think Notre Dame would rather stay at ACC if most of the current ACC schools hold together in ACC. I think if B1G wants 2 ACC schools, it is 50/50. Either UNC/UVA pair or UNC/Duke pair. Then Clemson/Florida State will go to SEC.