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RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - dgrace4cards - 05-21-2023 12:12 PM
(05-20-2023 05:33 PM)XLance Wrote:(05-20-2023 04:33 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote: How about this - the Eastern Atlantic 18
East - BC/UConn/Army/Syracuse/Navy/West Virginia
Central -George Washington/VCU/WF/Pitt/Cincy/Louisville
South - Duke/GT/UCF/USF/Tulane/SMU
This is probably where we are headed but with 16.
Some of the ACC heads to the B1G:
UVa
Carolina
NC State
Miami
Some move to the SEC:
Florida State
Clemson
Virginia Tech
Kansas? Seems to be the choice of some SEC posters.
We would have already moved into the Big 12 before even considering this Eastern conference...no thanks
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - dgrace4cards - 05-21-2023 12:15 PM
https://twitter.com/Dgrace75/status/1660295071982399488/retweets/with_comments
Copying this from ACC spring meetings, as this might be more appropriate thread to discuss it....Mods feel free to delete from other if you see it necessary.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - random asian guy - 05-21-2023 12:54 PM
(05-21-2023 05:10 AM)esayem Wrote: I don’t see how FSU, Clemson, State, and VaTech make the bloated SEC any money at this point. Not when you’ve got low earners already in the conference making more than their worth. Same goes with the Big Ten and any more than two additions.
I would think the schools that would pay for themselves and more are: Notre Dame, North Carolina, and probably FSU.
The next round of deals will tell us everything we need to know. I have the feeling they won’t be as lucrative.
I agree that the SEC is not likely to expand. They have a good setup. The BIG is different, though. Their business model is different and they don’t care much about distrance.
Reportedly Warren wanted to expand to 24. The presidents may not want to expand for now but I think the BIG would take Florida schools, ND and one more.
I’ve said this many times but FSU has a (much) better chance at the BIG than the SEC.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - XLance - 05-21-2023 01:10 PM
(05-21-2023 12:54 PM)random asian guy Wrote:(05-21-2023 05:10 AM)esayem Wrote: I don’t see how FSU, Clemson, State, and VaTech make the bloated SEC any money at this point. Not when you’ve got low earners already in the conference making more than their worth. Same goes with the Big Ten and any more than two additions.
I would think the schools that would pay for themselves and more are: Notre Dame, North Carolina, and probably FSU.
The next round of deals will tell us everything we need to know. I have the feeling they won’t be as lucrative.
I agree that the SEC is not likely to expand. They have a good setup. The BIG is different, though. Their business model is different and they don’t care much about distrance.
Reportedly Warren wanted to expand to 24. The presidents may not want to expand for now but I think the BIG would take Florida schools, ND and one more.
I’ve said this many times but FSU has a (much) better chance at the BIG than the SEC.
The SEC needed a second school in Texas. If the Longhorns had not joined the SEC, it probably would have been TCU or Baylor. The State is just too big to only have one school.
The same thing holds true in Florida. The SEC needs to have a second school there, there are just too many people in Florida for only one school. FSU is the logical choice. I'm not trying to get rid of the 'Noles, but if both sides wanted each other and the ACC could walk away with several hundred Million, I could be OK with it. There just seems to be too much animosity built up at this point to ever keep FSU happy.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - esayem - 05-21-2023 03:32 PM
(05-21-2023 12:54 PM)random asian guy Wrote:(05-21-2023 05:10 AM)esayem Wrote: I don’t see how FSU, Clemson, State, and VaTech make the bloated SEC any money at this point. Not when you’ve got low earners already in the conference making more than their worth. Same goes with the Big Ten and any more than two additions.
I would think the schools that would pay for themselves and more are: Notre Dame, North Carolina, and probably FSU.
The next round of deals will tell us everything we need to know. I have the feeling they won’t be as lucrative.
I agree that the SEC is not likely to expand. They have a good setup. The BIG is different, though. Their business model is different and they don’t care much about distrance.
Reportedly Warren wanted to expand to 24. The presidents may not want to expand for now but I think the BIG would take Florida schools, ND and one more.
I’ve said this many times but FSU has a (much) better chance at the BIG than the SEC.
FSU would be an absolutely strange fit in the Big Ten, but they couldn’t be a better fit for the SEC. Regardless, let’s pretend FSU and Clemson negotiate to leave a year or so before ‘36.
I believe the ACC has a window to strike for South Florida and WVU as the Big XII deal dwindles. There needs to be open dialogues etc, but essentially the ACC would lose their football juggernauts (79.5k and 82.5k seat stadiums), but could replace them with WVU (60k) and South Florida—which will have a state-of-the-art expandable on-campus stadium. In some ways, South Florida is a better long-term member for the increasingly metro-based ACC.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - green - 05-21-2023 05:53 PM
(05-20-2023 06:49 PM)random asian guy Wrote:(05-20-2023 05:33 PM)XLance Wrote:(05-20-2023 04:33 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote: How about this - the Eastern Atlantic 18
East - BC/UConn/Army/Syracuse/Navy/West Virginia
Central -George Washington/VCU/WF/Pitt/Cincy/Louisville
South - Duke/GT/UCF/USF/Tulane/SMU
This is probably where we are headed but with 16.
Some of the ACC heads to the B1G:
UVa
Carolina
NC State
Miami
Some move to the SEC:
Florida State
Clemson
Virginia Tech
Kansas? Seems to be the choice of some SEC posters.
If all M7 schools do get the P2 invitations, it would be:
To SEC:
FSU
Clemson
VT
NCSU
To BIG:
UNC
UVA
Miami
ND
But as I said in the previous posting, I don’t think we will see that many defects.
TRUST YOUR FIRST INSTINCT
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - random asian guy - 05-21-2023 05:54 PM
(05-20-2023 07:41 AM)XLance Wrote:(05-20-2023 05:59 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(05-19-2023 11:00 PM)random asian guy Wrote: https://247sports.com/Article/ACC-realignment-League-considered-at-least-four-schools-in-expansion-talks-per-report-210473928/amp/
David Hale’s tweets:
“There are some admins who are frustrated the ACC isn't considering some more aggressive expansion tactics to at least do *something*,” Hale added
I don’t know how many times I said this but Phillips really needs to take a more aggressive approach. He is just doing a facilitator role when the ACC needs a strong leader.
“The notion the Irish would join the ACC was always unlikely... but it at least got lip service. Not now. Swarbrick wasn't in Amelia Island & no one I've talked to even has it on their radar.”
Yup, the relationship with ND got really bad. I blame Phillips and his Alliance for this.
“ACC has looked at a few (expansion options),” Hale wrote on Twitter, “including Oregon, Washington, SMU and West Virginia. From what I've been told, the $$ just aren't there.”
Oregon and Washington are no brainer. SMU would increase the ACCN money and is probably the best Texas team we can get as the ACC missed the opportunity in 2021. It looks like one or more schools keep brining up WVU name. Is it Pitt or Cuse AD?
It is obvious that there is no realistic expasion target that would close the gap. There is no school out there that would increase the payout by $10 million or more.
If the ACC leadership doesn’t want an expansion unless it brings a financial bonanza, the future looks grim.
At this point, no expansion candidate other than Notre Dame would bring an immediate "financial bonanza". Get that out of your heads! However, as the Big XII has already demonstrated, it can set you up to play "Monopoly" with the TV networks. The ACC definitely needs to expand - not for short-term gain, but to force the networks to come to them in the long-term. Give ESPN, ABC, Fox, CBS, and NBC nowhere else to go...
Where the Big 12 has the advantage in this approach: they have no teams left that have much value.
The only reason the Big 12 got as good as deal as they did was the media contract they were able to get was part of a bribe to let Texas and Oklahoma out early (with $20 Million of the $50 Million "exit penalty" paid by both Texas and Oklahoma was paid directly to FOX). If it were not for the bribe the Big 12 would be floundering for a contract just like the PAC.
The Big 12 also took a gamble and the remaining 8 teams "loaned" $4 Million each to the in coming 4 teams to help them get up to speed ($32 million total, $8 Million per new team).
The ACC can not expand at this point unless ESPN agrees to pay a pro rata amount for each new team added and under the current circumstances with ESPN (Cable income down "big time" ((33%?)) from just a year ago) it's doubtful we will get anything out of the Mouse. ESPN just doesn't need the additional inventory.
At this point, the best possible situation for the ACC would probably be for ESPN to sell their ACC contract to another media outlet like FOX and they could mete out ACC games to the likes of CBS and NBC while operating the ACCN along side of the BTN.
ESPN is in a major cost cutting mode and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that they may need to start selling off assets.
Here is the answer.
Sources told Action Network that if the ACC adds additional teams — whether from the Power 5 or Group of Five — ESPN contractually must pay the ACC a pro-rata amount for each new member.
The ACC, if it desired, could add four more schools (almost certainly Group of Five programs), pay them a reduced amount and split the remaining revenue between the existing members. However, that likely would only increase the current membership’s revenue by a few million dollars a year until the new members would earn full shares.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/acc-at-crossroads-magnificent-7-seeks-more-revenue?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=BrettMcMurphy
[/quote]
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - SouthernConfBoy - 05-21-2023 07:41 PM
When the ACC adds smaller schools to gain a pay day they just repeat the same problem that they created in 1937 when they added smaller schools after UVa left. They changed the political balance of the league and the addition of George Washington in 41 and WVa in 1950 upped the number in the league to 17. In 37, Davidson, Furman, WF, Bill and Mary, and the Citadel were added after UVa went independent. The controlling voting balance was SC/Clemson/WF/NC State/UNC/Duke/VT/and MD - Wake voted with its neighbors. Adding GW tied things up at 16. Then WVa was added in 1950 and then things went to Hell on the heels of the football emphasis attempt and ensuing bowl ban.
Lets say for the ACCN the league adds 5 who will get much less - SMU, Tulane, USF, and Navy will all play football. GW will play basketball and other sports Navy can't field a team in.
That adds Texas, Louisiana, and MD/DC back into the primary DMA footprint.
It probably nets the current 14 about 7M a year each to start and give it 20 years to buy in so to speak.
The real issue will be how soon that new ones are allowed to vote.
If you are FSU and are desperate for traveling fans three of these help you - Navy, Tulane, and USF.
Pensacola and Jacksonville Naval and Air personnel should flood Tally.
For USF it's an in state game. For Tulane folks it's only a 6 hour drive but they get to visit the Gulf Coast Beaches if they desire. SMU may not be TAMU, but then again the State of Texas is a lot better than the States of Kansas or Mizzou.
Any game SMU has with a B12 Texas school suddenly means more. USF and UCF become an important intersectional rivalry. Navy will still play Army, AF, and probably ND. Tulane will periodically play Ole Miss, MSU, Arkansas, and even LSU once in a while.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - esayem - 05-21-2023 08:08 PM
Inviting Navy should get the ACCN rates in EVERY state!
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - random asian guy - 05-21-2023 10:51 PM
(05-21-2023 12:15 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote: https://twitter.com/Dgrace75/status/1660295071982399488/retweets/with_comments
Copying this from ACC spring meetings, as this might be more appropriate thread to discuss it....Mods feel free to delete from other if you see it necessary.
You and Hokie Mark are harrasing David Hale!
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - STL_Wave - 05-22-2023 04:15 AM
(05-20-2023 04:05 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:(05-20-2023 03:18 PM)STL_Wave Wrote: Dear ACC do this:
Can also sub in SMU for Temple/ND. Navy+Army for football if needed.
Hell would have to freeze over before WF, Duke, and GT play in a conference with Memphis.
They are not ranked in ARWU making them sub 200 nationally. They conduct very little hard science research relative even to WF and ND.
WVa would be a damn hard sell to get past those three.
VCU is likely acceptable to then, Delaware, George Washington, and Stoney of course.
![[Image: hJjE4xF.png]](https://i.imgur.com/hJjE4xF.png)
I mean are Memphis/WVU that much worse academically than Louisville?
You pair them with the academic prestige of Tulane, SMU, USF, Temple, UConn, and they should be good enough to hold their noses.....and if not it's a quick road to FBS.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - dgrace4cards - 05-22-2023 06:20 AM
(05-21-2023 10:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:(05-21-2023 12:15 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote: https://twitter.com/Dgrace75/status/1660295071982399488/retweets/with_comments
Copying this from ACC spring meetings, as this might be more appropriate thread to discuss it....Mods feel free to delete from other if you see it necessary.
You and Hokie Mark are harrasing David Hale!
Mark and I rolling up our sleeves over the weekend and getting work done for ACC fandom!
I do think Hale provided some actual news in those exchanges, enough for media writers and definitely you tube content creators to run with. What he said about the direction that at least some want is the Skipper idea of "go west my friend" moves the conversation forward in realignment and ACC circles. That feels like it deserves follow up to each of the schools officials to see where they stand on it.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - TexanMark - 05-22-2023 07:45 AM
I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.
This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - green - 05-22-2023 08:37 AM
(05-22-2023 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote: I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.
This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.
dissolution ...
or something short of dissolution ...
outside chance ...
pick over pac assuming talks collapse ...
STAY JUST A LITTLE BIT LONGER
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - Garrettabc - 05-22-2023 09:02 AM
(05-22-2023 06:20 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:(05-21-2023 10:51 PM)random asian guy Wrote:(05-21-2023 12:15 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote: https://twitter.com/Dgrace75/status/1660295071982399488/retweets/with_comments
Copying this from ACC spring meetings, as this might be more appropriate thread to discuss it....Mods feel free to delete from other if you see it necessary.
You and Hokie Mark are harrasing David Hale!
Mark and I rolling up our sleeves over the weekend and getting work done for ACC fandom!
I do think Hale provided some actual news in those exchanges, enough for media writers and definitely you tube content creators to run with. What he said about the direction that at least some want is the Skipper idea of "go west my friend" moves the conversation forward in realignment and ACC circles. That feels like it deserves follow up to each of the schools officials to see where they stand on it.
Nice job you 2.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - Hokie Mark - 05-22-2023 09:06 AM
(05-22-2023 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote: I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.
This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.
1. YES, the ACC was played. Maybe we should use a stronger word: conned.
2. Staying as-is has caused the ACC to miss out on one opportunity after another. Should I make a list?
- South Carolina (tried to return once)
- Penn State (before Big Ten)
- ACCN (chance for early launch)
- WVU (more than once!)
- Rutgers (meh, but good recruiting)
- Cincinnati (approaced the ACC pre-Big XII)
Those are just the ones I know about.
This is one of those deals where action is risky but inaction is deadly.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - dgrace4cards - 05-22-2023 11:33 AM
Nice job you 2.
[/quote]
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - GoWulfPak - 05-22-2023 01:01 PM
(05-22-2023 09:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(05-22-2023 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote: I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.
This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.
1. YES, the ACC was played. Maybe we should use a stronger word: conned.
2. Staying as-is has caused the ACC to miss out on one opportunity after another. Should I make a list?
- South Carolina (tried to return once)
- Penn State (before Big Ten)
- ACCN (chance for early launch)
- WVU (more than once!)
- Rutgers (meh, but good recruiting)
- Cincinnati (approaced the ACC pre-Big XII)
Those are just the ones I know about.
This is one of those deals where action is risky but inaction is deadly.
I'd like to hear about South Carolina wanting to come back.
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - CatsClaw1 - 05-22-2023 01:09 PM
(05-22-2023 09:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(05-22-2023 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote: I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.
This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.
1. YES, the ACC was played. Maybe we should use a stronger word: conned.
2. Staying as-is has caused the ACC to miss out on one opportunity after another. Should I make a list?
- South Carolina (tried to return once)
- Penn State (before Big Ten)
- ACCN (chance for early launch)
- WVU (more than once!)
- Rutgers (meh, but good recruiting)
- Cincinnati (approaced the ACC pre-Big XII)
Those are just the ones I know about.
This is one of those deals where action is risky but inaction is deadly.
That's interesting, I didn't know that at some point South Carolina tried to return to the ACC. I love the breakdown by the way!
RE: Is the expansion still an option for the ACC? - CatsClaw1 - 05-22-2023 01:14 PM
(05-22-2023 07:45 AM)TexanMark Wrote: I think the ACC got played by the B1G (alliance thing) and stood by and let the Big 12 grab the best of the rest.
This league's only option is to stay as it is for now.
As someone on the outside looking in I always felt that the B1G's moved stopped not onlyACC expansion but also Pac-12 expansion and as a result it hurt both conferences while strengthening the Big 12. I always thought that the B1G's spot in that Alliance was really suspicious.