Quote:Timing the jump to FBS is harder than it looks. Programs such as UMass and Texas State had already begun to falter at the FCS level when they jumped to FBS and stalled out altogether. Occasionally you'll see a team such as Marshall or Liberty hit the ground running, but it's really tricky.

All indications are that Curt Cignetti's James Madison team is more Marshall or App State than UMass.

(04-26-2022 11:03 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  Hot Take prediction: JMU will be in a New Year's 6 game within the next 7 years (if that path still exists)

(04-26-2022 11:03 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  Hot Take prediction: JMU will be in a New Year's 6 game within the next 7 years (if that path still exists)

(04-27-2022 07:23 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-26-2022 11:03 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  Hot Take prediction: JMU will be in a New Year's 6 game within the next 7 years (if that path still exists)

Not an impossible task. Your first three years will provide a good litmus as to whether it happens.

(04-28-2022 09:20 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(04-27-2022 07:23 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-26-2022 11:03 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  Hot Take prediction: JMU will be in a New Year's 6 game within the next 7 years (if that path still exists)

Not an impossible task. Your first three years will provide a good litmus as to whether it happens.

Agree its ambitious but not impossible. To do it we need to hit the ground running. Key to that is we need to beat both Marshall and App St in the first two seasons at least once each. I know Coastal and GSU are 'hot right now' but the true kings of the hill programs are those two, so we have to establish we're on par with the league's best and able to beat them off the bat. Even if we go undefeated against the rest of the SBC East if we lose our first two games vs. Marshall and App St. we're basically establishing that we're a clear #3 in the pecking order. It also doesn't matter where Marshall and App St. finish in the league standings because they are historic programs so the respect from the pollsters will come from beating them.

We absolutely will need to beat UVA and VT when we play them to establish P5 and in-state bona fides.

Need to win the Sun Belt - East at least 2-3 times in the first 6 years (especially the year prior) and need to knock off Louisiana and win a bowl game.

If all that happens (and I think it not only can but will) then a NY6 is on the table if we run the table.

(04-28-2022 10:18 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 09:20 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(04-27-2022 07:23 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-26-2022 11:03 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  Hot Take prediction: JMU will be in a New Year's 6 game within the next 7 years (if that path still exists)

Not an impossible task. Your first three years will provide a good litmus as to whether it happens.

Agree its ambitious but not impossible. To do it we need to hit the ground running. Key to that is we need to beat both Marshall and App St in the first two seasons at least once each. I know Coastal and GSU are 'hot right now' but the true kings of the hill programs are those two, so we have to establish we're on par with the league's best and able to beat them off the bat. Even if we go undefeated against the rest of the SBC East if we lose our first two games vs. Marshall and App St. we're basically establishing that we're a clear #3 in the pecking order. It also doesn't matter where Marshall and App St. finish in the league standings because they are historic programs so the respect from the pollsters will come from beating them.

We absolutely will need to beat UVA and VT when we play them to establish P5 and in-state bona fides.

Need to win the Sun Belt - East at least 2-3 times in the first 6 years (especially the year prior) and need to knock off Louisiana and win a bowl game.

If all that happens (and I think it not only can but will) then a NY6 is on the table if we run the table.

That’s not quite what I meant. All of those things are cool and all but who you beat and how has nothing to do with the foundation for success. Georgia Southern won the conference their first year and we see how that worked out. What I am talking about is getting three years of high school recruits in the program to keep the culture moving forward and building depth. If you bring in 75 high school kids in the first three years and you can keep 60% of them on the roster, you have something special. Cignetti is in his 60’s so at some point, you will need to get a new coach and that hire can either keep the train moving or derail the cars. You need to get guys that want to be there and compete. Look at the proven G5 powers. Notice how many guys jump in the portal from those schools. Not many.

I’m going to say this and please understand that it isn’t meant to quell fandom, but beating UVA or VT won’t do much for improved recruiting. Chances are, you have a kid mulling over legit committable offers from JMU and one of those schools and you are likely going to lose out. If you listen to App fans that see offer lists, they all look the same but they aren’t. We beat UNC and USC east in 2019 and we still lose guys to them at the last minute.

Build your depth through solid evaluation and development, maintain coaching continuity and embody the culture and you should do nicely in building your brand at the FBS level.

(04-28-2022 01:52 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 10:18 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 09:20 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(04-27-2022 07:23 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-26-2022 11:03 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  Hot Take prediction: JMU will be in a New Year's 6 game within the next 7 years (if that path still exists)

Not an impossible task. Your first three years will provide a good litmus as to whether it happens.

Agree its ambitious but not impossible. To do it we need to hit the ground running. Key to that is we need to beat both Marshall and App St in the first two seasons at least once each. I know Coastal and GSU are 'hot right now' but the true kings of the hill programs are those two, so we have to establish we're on par with the league's best and able to beat them off the bat. Even if we go undefeated against the rest of the SBC East if we lose our first two games vs. Marshall and App St. we're basically establishing that we're a clear #3 in the pecking order. It also doesn't matter where Marshall and App St. finish in the league standings because they are historic programs so the respect from the pollsters will come from beating them.

We absolutely will need to beat UVA and VT when we play them to establish P5 and in-state bona fides.

Need to win the Sun Belt - East at least 2-3 times in the first 6 years (especially the year prior) and need to knock off Louisiana and win a bowl game.

If all that happens (and I think it not only can but will) then a NY6 is on the table if we run the table.

That’s not quite what I meant. All of those things are cool and all but who you beat and how has nothing to do with the foundation for success. Georgia Southern won the conference their first year and we see how that worked out. What I am talking about is getting three years of high school recruits in the program to keep the culture moving forward and building depth. If you bring in 75 high school kids in the first three years and you can keep 60% of them on the roster, you have something special. Cignetti is in his 60’s so at some point, you will need to get a new coach and that hire can either keep the train moving or derail the cars. You need to get guys that want to be there and compete. Look at the proven G5 powers. Notice how many guys jump in the portal from those schools. Not many.

I’m going to say this and please understand that it isn’t meant to quell fandom, but beating UVA or VT won’t do much for improved recruiting. Chances are, you have a kid mulling over legit committable offers from JMU and one of those schools and you are likely going to lose out. If you listen to App fans that see offer lists, they all look the same but they aren’t. We beat UNC and USC east in 2019 and we still lose guys to them at the last minute.

Build your depth through solid evaluation and development, maintain coaching continuity and embody the culture and you should do nicely in building your brand at the FBS level.

Oh really? Disagree. Beating UVA and VT will not only help JMU’s recruiting profile in VA (and the mid-Atlantic), it will boost regular season home attendance which will speed-up building-out JMU’s FB stadium…which in turn will help improve recruiting.

Bottom line, there’s no substitute for winning, and winning against other instate schools earns a program bragging rights when coaches approach talent in VA, and the D1 talent in VA is sufficient to compete on a national level.

(04-28-2022 02:24 PM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 01:52 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 10:18 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 09:20 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(04-27-2022 07:23 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  Not an impossible task. Your first three years will provide a good litmus as to whether it happens.

Agree its ambitious but not impossible. To do it we need to hit the ground running. Key to that is we need to beat both Marshall and App St in the first two seasons at least once each. I know Coastal and GSU are 'hot right now' but the true kings of the hill programs are those two, so we have to establish we're on par with the league's best and able to beat them off the bat. Even if we go undefeated against the rest of the SBC East if we lose our first two games vs. Marshall and App St. we're basically establishing that we're a clear #3 in the pecking order. It also doesn't matter where Marshall and App St. finish in the league standings because they are historic programs so the respect from the pollsters will come from beating them.

We absolutely will need to beat UVA and VT when we play them to establish P5 and in-state bona fides.

Need to win the Sun Belt - East at least 2-3 times in the first 6 years (especially the year prior) and need to knock off Louisiana and win a bowl game.

If all that happens (and I think it not only can but will) then a NY6 is on the table if we run the table.

That’s not quite what I meant. All of those things are cool and all but who you beat and how has nothing to do with the foundation for success. Georgia Southern won the conference their first year and we see how that worked out. What I am talking about is getting three years of high school recruits in the program to keep the culture moving forward and building depth. If you bring in 75 high school kids in the first three years and you can keep 60% of them on the roster, you have something special. Cignetti is in his 60’s so at some point, you will need to get a new coach and that hire can either keep the train moving or derail the cars. You need to get guys that want to be there and compete. Look at the proven G5 powers. Notice how many guys jump in the portal from those schools. Not many.

I’m going to say this and please understand that it isn’t meant to quell fandom, but beating UVA or VT won’t do much for improved recruiting. Chances are, you have a kid mulling over legit committable offers from JMU and one of those schools and you are likely going to lose out. If you listen to App fans that see offer lists, they all look the same but they aren’t. We beat UNC and USC east in 2019 and we still lose guys to them at the last minute.

Build your depth through solid evaluation and development, maintain coaching continuity and embody the culture and you should do nicely in building your brand at the FBS level.

Oh really? Disagree. Beating UVA and VT will not only help JMU’s recruiting profile in VA (and the mid-Atlantic), it will boost regular season home attendance which will speed-up building-out JMU’s FB stadium…which in turn will help improve recruiting.

Bottom line, there’s no substitute for winning, and winning against other instate schools earns a program bragging rights when coaches approach talent in VA, and the D1 talent in VA is sufficient to compete on a national level.

You are correct. There is no substitute for winning. However, winning is the by-product of culture. Not the other way around. I never said that your recruiting wouldn’t get better. I said beating your in state P5s won’t help. Perhaps I worded my comments poorly, as I meant to say that you won’t affect a kid’s decision to choose you over them because of head to head results. Bragging rights are cute, but in all honesty, they can’t compete against the bells and whistles that a P5 offers.

Since 2015, App has the best record in the FBS outside of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St., and Oklahoma. That still doesn’t make a kid choose App over Carolina or State. Disagree if you want. I’ve got 7 years of experience watching FBS recruiting that tells me you are misguided.

(04-28-2022 02:24 PM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 01:52 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 10:18 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  

(04-28-2022 09:20 AM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(04-27-2022 07:23 AM)Appst94 Wrote:  Not an impossible task. Your first three years will provide a good litmus as to whether it happens.

Agree its ambitious but not impossible. To do it we need to hit the ground running. Key to that is we need to beat both Marshall and App St in the first two seasons at least once each. I know Coastal and GSU are 'hot right now' but the true kings of the hill programs are those two, so we have to establish we're on par with the league's best and able to beat them off the bat. Even if we go undefeated against the rest of the SBC East if we lose our first two games vs. Marshall and App St. we're basically establishing that we're a clear #3 in the pecking order. It also doesn't matter where Marshall and App St. finish in the league standings because they are historic programs so the respect from the pollsters will come from beating them.

We absolutely will need to beat UVA and VT when we play them to establish P5 and in-state bona fides.

Need to win the Sun Belt - East at least 2-3 times in the first 6 years (especially the year prior) and need to knock off Louisiana and win a bowl game.

If all that happens (and I think it not only can but will) then a NY6 is on the table if we run the table.

That’s not quite what I meant. All of those things are cool and all but who you beat and how has nothing to do with the foundation for success. Georgia Southern won the conference their first year and we see how that worked out. What I am talking about is getting three years of high school recruits in the program to keep the culture moving forward and building depth. If you bring in 75 high school kids in the first three years and you can keep 60% of them on the roster, you have something special. Cignetti is in his 60’s so at some point, you will need to get a new coach and that hire can either keep the train moving or derail the cars. You need to get guys that want to be there and compete. Look at the proven G5 powers. Notice how many guys jump in the portal from those schools. Not many.

I’m going to say this and please understand that it isn’t meant to quell fandom, but beating UVA or VT won’t do much for improved recruiting. Chances are, you have a kid mulling over legit committable offers from JMU and one of those schools and you are likely going to lose out. If you listen to App fans that see offer lists, they all look the same but they aren’t. We beat UNC and USC east in 2019 and we still lose guys to them at the last minute.

Build your depth through solid evaluation and development, maintain coaching continuity and embody the culture and you should do nicely in building your brand at the FBS level.

Oh really? Disagree. Beating UVA and VT will not only help JMU’s recruiting profile in VA (and the mid-Atlantic), it will boost regular season home attendance which will speed-up building-out JMU’s FB stadium…which in turn will help improve recruiting.

Bottom line, there’s no substitute for winning, and winning against other instate schools earns a program bragging rights when coaches approach talent in VA, and the D1 talent in VA is sufficient to compete on a national level.

You are correct. There is no substitute for winning. However, winning is the by-product of culture. Not the other way around. I never said that your recruiting wouldn’t get better. I said beating your in state P5s won’t help. Perhaps I worded my comments poorly, as I meant to say that you won’t affect a kid’s decision to choose you over them because of head to head results. Bragging rights are cute, but in all honesty, they can’t compete against the bells and whistles that a P5 offers.

Since 2015, App has the best record in the FBS outside of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St., and Oklahoma. That still doesn’t make a kid choose App over Carolina or State. Disagree if you want. I’ve got 7 years of experience watching FBS recruiting that tells me you are misguided.

(04-29-2022 06:33 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  The app guy is right.

Don’t argue with him just to argue.

P5’s will ALWAYS win the recruiting wars. We may get a few guys here and there, but the resources they have, and now NIL, is extremely difficult to overcome.

And don’t be fooled, a good bit of our guys have p5 offers, but I’d bet many of those are contingent.

P5: “You’re our qb! We’ll take you…… if Joe Montana or Tom Brady don’t commit” Two weeks later: Joe Montana commits and no ship available from that p5 school anymore. This happens all the time.

And we probably do the same to guys as well. We probably have 200 offers out. We obviously aren’t taking them all. But there is no doubt Cig and staff have some players identified as priority recruits, and they aren’t accepting more commits that leave those priority guys out cold. There are plan b and c guys in those offers.

(04-29-2022 06:33 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  The app guy is right.

Don’t argue with him just to argue.

P5’s will ALWAYS win the recruiting wars. We may get a few guys here and there, but the resources they have, and now NIL, is extremely difficult to overcome.

And don’t be fooled, a good bit of our guys have p5 offers, but I’d bet many of those are contingent.

P5: “You’re our qb! We’ll take you…… if Joe Montana or Tom Brady don’t commit” Two weeks later: Joe Montana commits and no ship available from that p5 school anymore. This happens all the time.

And we probably do the same to guys as well. We probably have 200 offers out. We obviously aren’t taking them all. But there is no doubt Cig and staff have some players identified as priority recruits, and they aren’t accepting more commits that leave those priority guys out cold. There are plan b and c guys in those offers.

(04-29-2022 06:33 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  The app guy is right.

Don’t argue with him just to argue.

P5’s will ALWAYS win the recruiting wars. We may get a few guys here and there, but the resources they have, and now NIL, is extremely difficult to overcome.

And don’t be fooled, a good bit of our guys have p5 offers, but I’d bet many of those are contingent.

P5: “You’re our qb! We’ll take you…… if Joe Montana or Tom Brady don’t commit” Two weeks later: Joe Montana commits and no ship available from that p5 school anymore. This happens all the time.

And we probably do the same to guys as well. We probably have 200 offers out. We obviously aren’t taking them all. But there is no doubt Cig and staff have some players identified as priority recruits, and they aren’t accepting more commits that leave those priority guys out cold. There are plan b and c guys in those offers.

(04-29-2022 10:48 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Though it's in its infancy right now, you can bet all the big boys will be handing out that $ as an inducement. They may not want to right now, but when coaches & boosters complain that it is a recruiting disadvantage not to provide it, they'll all toe the line. Between the COA, NIL and this new "reward", it's an athletic arms race. And the massive TV $$ the P5s get will allow them to max this all out.