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Big East & AAC - Michael in Raleigh - 03-28-2022 07:56 AM
Is there any remaining beef between the AAC and Big East? I thought more discussion would have been generated as a subplot to Villanova vs. Houston, but I saw nothing.
When the Big East goes up for renewal with Fox, or starts a new contract with ESPN or whomever, how much money will they get?
If the original Big East football conference (Miami, VT, BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, and Temple) was an all-sports conference today, what kind of media value would it command? Something similar to the "new Big 12?" Better ? Worse?
Same question for Big East football conference 2.0 (Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, UConn, Louisville, Cincy, USF).
Same question if an all-sports conference combining all former Big East members (listed above) existed today.
RE: Big East & AAC - quo vadis - 03-28-2022 07:59 AM
(03-28-2022 07:56 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: Is there any remaining beef between the AAC and Big East? I thought more discussion would have been generated as a subplot to Villanova vs. Houston, but I saw nothing.
I would say there isn't much left, simply because the Big East has so clearly out-performed the AAC over the CFP years, and now the AAC has lost its three top members and has adopted half of CUSA flotsam and jetsam.
The conferences have just gone in different directions.
RE: Big East & AAC - Michael in Raleigh - 03-28-2022 08:18 AM
I didn't want too long of a post for my OP, but I'll give my thoughts on my own questions while looking forward to the discussion.
I do like and respect a number of programs in both leagues, but I don't follow either league closely. So consider this an outsiders perspective. It seems most of the tension has waned quite a bit. For many years, there appeared to be quite a bit of animosity. But time seems to have healed some wounds and resentment.
After the eventual three Big 12 members depart, more than half the league will have never even had any kind of announcement that they would ever join the "Big East." The six incoming current C-USA members were invited well after the split was complete. Same for Wichita State. Tulsa was invited before the AAC's name was announced but after the Catholic 7's new charter was a certainty. Navy and ECU never received an invitation to play basketball in a conference called the "Big East." Among the other five members (USF, Temple, Memphis, Tulane, and SMU), only USF and Temple ever played football with a Big East logo on their field, and only USF ever actually played Big East basketball.
I suppose it must be noted also that UConn departed the AAC to go "back" to the Big East, which may factor in for some sense of rivalry.
What does all this mean for any tension that still exists? Comment below, like this video, and hit that subscribe button. It really helps my channel. LOL.
For the other questions, I'll say the Big East media value will rise to $7-9M/school/year.
I'm going to say that the per-school payout for the original Big East football conference, as an all-sports league, would exceed the ACC's payout. This is mainly because the ACC's contract is outdated, and a new contract for this league, today, would command more value, IMO. Live sports content value just keeps going up. To put a number on it, probably about $33M/year, or whatever is $2-3M more than what the ACC gets right now. Someone less lazy than I am can look up those numbers.
Big East football 2.0, I think, would be worth maybe $25M/year. Fewer brand names and all. The combo I guess would get somewhere in the middle. Call it $29M/year.
RE: Big East & AAC - stever20 - 03-28-2022 08:39 AM
It's gonna be interesting to see just how much the Big East gets. I don't know that it rises up to 7-9M per year. What are they about 4.5-5M right now?
Also will be interesting if they go all with Fox or if we see ESPN get a piece of them as well. I could see the Big East going the latter to prevent games from going to CBSSN.
RE: Big East & AAC - bill dazzle - 03-28-2022 09:01 AM
(03-28-2022 08:18 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote: I didn't want too long of a post for my OP, but I'll give my thoughts on my own questions while looking forward to the discussion.
I do like and respect a number of programs in both leagues, but I don't follow either league closely. So consider this an outsiders perspective. It seems most of the tension has waned quite a bit. For many years, there appeared to be quite a bit of animosity. But time seems to have healed some wounds and resentment.
After the eventual three Big 12 members depart, more than half the league will have never even had any kind of announcement that they would ever join the "Big East." The six incoming current C-USA members were invited well after the split was complete. Same for Wichita State. Tulsa was invited before the AAC's name was announced but after the Catholic 7's new charter was a certainty. Navy and ECU never received an invitation to play basketball in a conference called the "Big East." Among the other five members (USF, Temple, Memphis, Tulane, and SMU), only USF and Temple ever played football with a Big East logo on their field, and only USF ever actually played Big East basketball.
I suppose it must be noted also that UConn departed the AAC to go "back" to the Big East, which may factor in for some sense of rivalry.
What does all this mean for any tension that still exists? Comment below, like this video, and hit that subscribe button. It really helps my channel. LOL.
For the other questions, I'll say the Big East media value will rise to $7-9M/school/year.
I'm going to say that the per-school payout for the original Big East football conference, as an all-sports league, would exceed the ACC's payout. This is mainly because the ACC's contract is outdated, and a new contract for this league, today, would command more value, IMO. Live sports content value just keeps going up. To put a number on it, probably about $33M/year, or whatever is $2-3M more than what the ACC gets right now. Someone less lazy than I am can look up those numbers.
Big East football 2.0, I think, would be worth maybe $25M/year. Fewer brand names and all. The combo I guess would get somewhere in the middle. Call it $29M/year.
As somebody who cheers for programs in both leagues and whose personal history dates to the days of the Metro, Great Midwest and C-USA, I have never had any animosity or negative feelings regarding the topic.
Five particular universities that were not originally in the Big East and that now are members of highly respected leagues owe, to an extent, their respective current league memberships to some of that history I note. These schools include DePaul (BE), Marquette (BE), Cincinnati (future Big 12), Houston (future Big 12) and Louisville (ACC).
The animosity/tension often is spurred by some on the board who see a "competition" of sorts between the current Big East and the AAC. The pro-Big East types argue the BE is "better" than the AAC because it plays power-level hoops and is stable/cohesive. The pro-AAC folks counter the American is "better" than the BE because it sponsors football, plays a very high level of baseball, offers schools with a significant number of med schools/doctoral programs and includes a prestigious military academy.
I don't see either as "superior" to the other. In fact, I consider the two very equal in the grand scheme of big-time college athletics: that is, neither is a highly influential entity and both are, in general, viewed as inferior by the five "big boy leagues."
RE: Big East & AAC - shizzle787 - 03-28-2022 09:02 AM
(03-28-2022 08:39 AM)stever20 Wrote: It's gonna be interesting to see just how much the Big East gets. I don't know that it rises up to 7-9M per year. What are they about 4.5-5M right now?
Also will be interesting if they go all with Fox or if we see ESPN get a piece of them as well. I could see the Big East going the latter to prevent games from going to CBSSN.
The Big East doesn't want any games behind a paywall. CBSSN is better than ESPN+.
RE: Big East & AAC - stever20 - 03-28-2022 09:04 AM
(03-28-2022 09:02 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:(03-28-2022 08:39 AM)stever20 Wrote: It's gonna be interesting to see just how much the Big East gets. I don't know that it rises up to 7-9M per year. What are they about 4.5-5M right now?
Also will be interesting if they go all with Fox or if we see ESPN get a piece of them as well. I could see the Big East going the latter to prevent games from going to CBSSN.
The Big East doesn't want any games behind a paywall. CBSSN is better than ESPN+.
Like it or not, that's the way things are going. Also, don't think it would be a huge package- but like 30-35 games where most if not all would be on one of the ESPN normal channels.
RE: Big East & AAC - billybobby777 - 03-28-2022 11:11 AM
(03-28-2022 09:04 AM)stever20 Wrote:(03-28-2022 09:02 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:(03-28-2022 08:39 AM)stever20 Wrote: It's gonna be interesting to see just how much the Big East gets. I don't know that it rises up to 7-9M per year. What are they about 4.5-5M right now?
Also will be interesting if they go all with Fox or if we see ESPN get a piece of them as well. I could see the Big East going the latter to prevent games from going to CBSSN.
The Big East doesn't want any games behind a paywall. CBSSN is better than ESPN+.
Like it or not, that's the way things are going. Also, don't think it would be a huge package- but like 30-35 games where most if not all would be on one of the ESPN normal channels.
The Big East has been playing on CBS-SN for years now.
The + is terrible. No one wants there games on something that has only your own fans watching.
RE: Big East & AAC - TroyTBoy - 03-28-2022 12:06 PM
(03-28-2022 07:59 AM)quo vadis Wrote: I would say there isn't much left, simply because the Big East has so clearly out-performed the AAC over the CFP years, and now the AAC has lost its three top members and has adopted half of CUSA flotsam and jetsam.
The conferences have just gone in different directions.
Imo, the two OBE siblings are doing ok.
The Houston-Villanova Elite 8 game was for the tiebreaker. Prior to that game, each conference had made 2 Final Fours each.
The NBE has never been able to shake the bugaboo that its just Nova. Providence only advanced this year because they played SDSU & Richmond.
Meanwhile, the AAC has dominated the Access bowl and now has a CFP to their portfolio.
If we are going by revenue sport accompli$hments, the AAC has out earned the NBE for a long time (which would be hard not to do given the NBE doesn't have FB).
With the media marked trending towards streaming, I don't see the NBE getting much more on the media deal. The circumstances that caused FS1 to overpay for a 12-year stretch aren't there anymore. The FS1 ratings for NBE games have topped out at 400K viewers and bottomed at well under 100K.
IMO, the OBE siblings probably shouldn't have split given the revenue and media options that having football opens up.
![[Image: cQPH35P.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/cQPH35P.jpg)
RE: Big East & AAC - Stugray2 - 03-28-2022 12:16 PM
I think each has gone their own way and are happy. Sometimes divorces work out fine. This was mostly, excepting UConn, an amicable separation, with members being affiliates here and there in the other conference. Each has built a very distinct brand and image. It's hard to find anyone in either conference who didn't think it worked out for the better for their school.
RE: Big East & AAC - ccd494 - 03-28-2022 12:23 PM
(03-28-2022 11:11 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:(03-28-2022 09:04 AM)stever20 Wrote:(03-28-2022 09:02 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:(03-28-2022 08:39 AM)stever20 Wrote: It's gonna be interesting to see just how much the Big East gets. I don't know that it rises up to 7-9M per year. What are they about 4.5-5M right now?
Also will be interesting if they go all with Fox or if we see ESPN get a piece of them as well. I could see the Big East going the latter to prevent games from going to CBSSN.
The Big East doesn't want any games behind a paywall. CBSSN is better than ESPN+.
Like it or not, that's the way things are going. Also, don't think it would be a huge package- but like 30-35 games where most if not all would be on one of the ESPN normal channels.
The Big East has been playing on CBS-SN for years now.
The + is terrible. No one wants there games on something that has only your own fans watching.
I don't get this. My wife went to a Big East school. They had a game on CBSSN on a Tuesday night. Despite having Paramount+ to watch US Soccer, we couldn't get CBSSN streaming and it isn't offered by our cable company. I had to call a half dozen bars and restaurants to find one that a.) carried CBSSN and b.) was staying open past 10:00 on a Tuesday.
You know what I can watch whenever I want? ESPN+
RE: Big East & AAC - Nerdlinger - 03-28-2022 12:33 PM
With UConn already having joined the new Big East and Cincinnati leaving for the Big 12, USF is going to be the only member of the old Big East that's still in the AAC (technically Temple as well, though they were never a full member). None of the other remaining AAC members overlapped with the C7, so what's to feud about?
RE: Big East & AAC - AssKickingChicken - 03-28-2022 12:56 PM
(03-28-2022 12:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: I think each has gone their own way and are happy. Sometimes divorces work out fine. This was mostly, excepting UConn, an amicable separation, with members being affiliates here and there in the other conference. Each has built a very distinct brand and image. It's hard to find anyone in either conference who didn't think it worked out for the better for their school.
I agree. Some want to compare it to the breakup of Yugoslavia when it was more like the breakup of Czechoslovakia.
RE: Big East & AAC - TroyTBoy - 03-28-2022 01:28 PM
(03-28-2022 12:33 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: With UConn already having joined the new Big East and Cincinnati leaving for the Big 12, USF is going to be the only member of the old Big East that's still in the AAC (technically Temple as well, though they were never a full member). None of the other remaining AAC members overlapped with the C7, so what's to feud about?
The dynamics between the two OBE offspring conferences are a little more intertwined.
MVC's Creighton (NBE) - Wichita State (AAC)
A10's Xavier & Butler (NBE) - Temple & Charlotte (AAC)
CUSA 1.0's Marquette & DePaul (NBE) - Memphis, Charlotte, UAB, ECU, USF, Tulane (AAC)
OBE Catholics (NBE) - USF, Temple (AAC)
And UConn has crossed over both memberships (AAC & NBE)
RE: Big East & AAC - bill dazzle - 03-28-2022 01:30 PM
(03-28-2022 12:33 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: With UConn already having joined the new Big East and Cincinnati leaving for the Big 12, USF is going to be the only member of the old Big East that's still in the AAC (technically Temple as well, though they were never a full member). None of the other remaining AAC members overlapped with the C7, so what's to feud about?
There should be no feuding. There has always been major overlap between multiple schools that have shared homes in the Metro, Great Midwest, C-USA, Big East and AAC. In many respects, those schools who have shared conference membership are "league brothers in spirit."
There is not one university/athletics program currently a member of either the Big East or the AAC that is part of the comprehensive power club. Eventually, UCF, Cincy and Houston will be part of that elite group. I feel UConn will be one day. As such, the reasonable and fair posters on this board who are fans of schools that are members of either league ... understand the importance of being humble and appreciative.
RE: Big East & AAC - bill dazzle - 03-28-2022 01:33 PM
(03-28-2022 01:28 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:(03-28-2022 12:33 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: With UConn already having joined the new Big East and Cincinnati leaving for the Big 12, USF is going to be the only member of the old Big East that's still in the AAC (technically Temple as well, though they were never a full member). None of the other remaining AAC members overlapped with the C7, so what's to feud about?
The dynamics between the two OBE offspring conferences are a little more intertwined.
MVC's Creighton (NBE) - Wichita State (AAC)
A10's Xavier & Butler (NBE) - Temple & Charlotte (AAC)
CUSA 1.0's Marquette & DePaul (NBE) - Memphis, Charlotte, UAB, ECU, USF, Tulane (AAC)
OBE C7 (NBE) - USF, Temple (AAC)
And UConn has crossed over both memberships (AAC & NBE)
Helpful info. I always enjoy trying to mentally recall the histories of all the intertwined schools and leagues — but rarely am I successful. To see this on paper is interesting.
RE: Big East & AAC - Nerdlinger - 03-28-2022 01:50 PM
(03-28-2022 01:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:(03-28-2022 01:28 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:(03-28-2022 12:33 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: With UConn already having joined the new Big East and Cincinnati leaving for the Big 12, USF is going to be the only member of the old Big East that's still in the AAC (technically Temple as well, though they were never a full member). None of the other remaining AAC members overlapped with the C7, so what's to feud about?
The dynamics between the two OBE offspring conferences are a little more intertwined.
MVC's Creighton (NBE) - Wichita State (AAC)
A10's Xavier & Butler (NBE) - Temple & Charlotte (AAC)
CUSA 1.0's Marquette & DePaul (NBE) - Memphis, Charlotte, UAB, ECU, USF, Tulane (AAC)
OBE C7 (NBE) - USF, Temple (AAC)
And UConn has crossed over both memberships (AAC & NBE)
Helpful info. I always enjoy trying to mentally recall the histories of all the intertwined schools and leagues — but rarely am I successful. To see this on paper is interesting.
Right, there are rivalries between the schools involved, but If we're talking residual "beef" between the new BE and the AAC over the breakup of the old Big East, most of the old BE FB schools have already moved on.
RE: Big East & AAC - ArmoredUpKnight - 03-28-2022 02:22 PM
Temple and usf are the only leftover Big East / AAC members left to feel offended.
Cincy is looking forward to the Big12.
The other AAC teams never played a Big East schedule.
So I don’t think there are any hard feelings anymore. Most of the AAC anger has shifted to the teams leaving for the Big12.
RE: Big East & AAC - bill dazzle - 03-28-2022 02:46 PM
(03-28-2022 02:22 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote: Temple and usf are the only leftover Big East / AAC members left to feel offended.
Cincy is looking forward to the Big12.
The other AAC teams never played a Big East schedule.
So I don’t think there are any hard feelings anymore. Most of the AAC anger has shifted to the teams leaving for the Big12.
"Anger" seems too strong a word to use. There clearly is some "envy." As a Cincinnati fan, I am thrilled for both the Bearcat program and the City of Cincinnati regarding the future Big 12 home. But I hate to see UC and Memphis "split" and I'm somewhat jealous of UCF as a Tiger fan (I can't deny it).
It's much like the feeling I had when DePaul and Cincinnati left C-USA for the Big East. I was hugely happy for DU and UC. But I felt envious that USF got the BE call-up over Memphis.
But joy and disappointment are the realities of realignment.
RE: Big East & AAC - DFW HOYA - 03-28-2022 03:08 PM
(03-28-2022 08:39 AM)stever20 Wrote: Also will be interesting if they go all with Fox or if we see ESPN get a piece of them as well. I could see the Big East going the latter to prevent games from going to CBSSN.
Fox has been very good to the Big East. ESPN tried to put them out of business.