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RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - CliftonAve - 03-31-2022 07:33 AM
Good crowd at the game last night, approximately 2,350. It’s a shame the pitching has been so bad. There is a huge opportunity to make the baseball program closer to revenue neutral in the AD budget by getting butts in the seat. It’s my understanding the next recruiting class has some good arms coming in, but I have to wonder if there needs to be someone else on the staff to coach them up.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - OKIcat - 03-31-2022 07:40 AM
(03-31-2022 06:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: If our pitching could even be enough of an obstacle for our opponents that they resemble the mound they pitch from, we'd be winning far more games. Theough 23 games, our pitchers have allowed fewer than 5 runs THREE TIMES.
Our starting pitching ERA is a 6.26...like...you cannot win with that kind of number.
Yes. Pitching has been nothing short of a disaster. I was in and out of the room watching it after the five run bloodletting to begin the game. To Xavier's credit, they appear to have a pretty good team this season. They won 3 out of 4 @ Indiana, scoring 37 runs in that series.
My bigger concern is with our own baseball program. I expected an improved trajectory after an exciting run to the NCAA in 2019. It won't get easier in American Conference play either. And of course pointing toward Big 12 competition in '23 or '24, UC will face some of the nation's best teams every year.
One has to be concerned that a team across town with inferior facilities, playing in a considerably weaker conference has just thrashed the Bearcats in four straight, two of which were played at home. Was it an aberration, or is UC on the wrong track?
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - rath v2.0 - 03-31-2022 07:44 AM
I still say to save time just spot the other team 8 runs lost games and they only get to bat in the last inning.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - BearcatMan - 03-31-2022 08:00 AM
(03-31-2022 07:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:(03-31-2022 06:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: If our pitching could even be enough of an obstacle for our opponents that they resemble the mound they pitch from, we'd be winning far more games. Theough 23 games, our pitchers have allowed fewer than 5 runs THREE TIMES.
Our starting pitching ERA is a 6.26...like...you cannot win with that kind of number.
Yes. Pitching has been nothing short of a disaster. I was in and out of the room watching it after the five run bloodletting to begin the game. To Xavier's credit, they appear to have a pretty good team this season. They won 3 out of 4 @ Indiana, scoring 37 runs in that series.
My bigger concern is with our own baseball program. I expected an improved trajectory after an exciting run to the NCAA in 2019. It won't get easier in American Conference play either. And of course pointing toward Big 12 competition in '23 or '24, UC will face some of the nation's best teams every year.
One has to be concerned that a team across town with inferior facilities, playing in a considerably weaker conference has just thrashed the Bearcats in four straight, two of which were played at home. Was it an aberration, or is UC on the wrong track?
I'd say 3 one-run losses is a chance encounter more than a trend and certainly not a "thrashing". In general, the development of our bats over the last three years has been very good...our pitching tends to start slow and get better as the season progresses, but in general it has been lackluster at best throughout any season. To put things nicely, if we had even AVERAGE college pitching, we'd likely have 6-8 more wins this year with how well they're hitting the ball. Now, the question we should be asking is if that (pitching issues) is a coaching blindspot, a problem with our recruiting, or just an issue with Ohio youth baseball.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - OKIcat - 03-31-2022 08:25 AM
(03-31-2022 08:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:(03-31-2022 07:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:(03-31-2022 06:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: If our pitching could even be enough of an obstacle for our opponents that they resemble the mound they pitch from, we'd be winning far more games. Theough 23 games, our pitchers have allowed fewer than 5 runs THREE TIMES.
Our starting pitching ERA is a 6.26...like...you cannot win with that kind of number.
Yes. Pitching has been nothing short of a disaster. I was in and out of the room watching it after the five run bloodletting to begin the game. To Xavier's credit, they appear to have a pretty good team this season. They won 3 out of 4 @ Indiana, scoring 37 runs in that series.
My bigger concern is with our own baseball program. I expected an improved trajectory after an exciting run to the NCAA in 2019. It won't get easier in American Conference play either. And of course pointing toward Big 12 competition in '23 or '24, UC will face some of the nation's best teams every year.
One has to be concerned that a team across town with inferior facilities, playing in a considerably weaker conference has just thrashed the Bearcats in four straight, two of which were played at home. Was it an aberration, or is UC on the wrong track?
I'd say 3 one-run losses is a chance encounter more than a trend and certainly not a "thrashing". In general, the development of our bats over the last three years has been very good...our pitching tends to start slow and get better as the season progresses, but in general it has been lackluster at best throughout any season. To put things nicely, if we had even AVERAGE college pitching, we'd likely have 6-8 more wins this year with how well they're hitting the ball. Now, the question we should be asking is if that (pitching issues) is a coaching blindspot, a problem with our recruiting, or just an issue with Ohio youth baseball.
Bolded, great question, as always. As you correctly pointed out, only the pitching staff was thrashed in my emotional response to these four losses. And yes, this team would likely have six to eight more wins with average pitching. And a single "stopper" out of the bullpen might have meant three to four more wins. That loss to Michigan State was a horrible pitching collapse and not the only one this season. Those will happen. But consistently surrendering this many runs and always playing from behind doesn't inspire much confidence that this team will compete in the conference race.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - CliftonAve - 03-31-2022 08:31 AM
(03-31-2022 08:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:(03-31-2022 07:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:(03-31-2022 06:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: If our pitching could even be enough of an obstacle for our opponents that they resemble the mound they pitch from, we'd be winning far more games. Theough 23 games, our pitchers have allowed fewer than 5 runs THREE TIMES.
Our starting pitching ERA is a 6.26...like...you cannot win with that kind of number.
Yes. Pitching has been nothing short of a disaster. I was in and out of the room watching it after the five run bloodletting to begin the game. To Xavier's credit, they appear to have a pretty good team this season. They won 3 out of 4 @ Indiana, scoring 37 runs in that series.
My bigger concern is with our own baseball program. I expected an improved trajectory after an exciting run to the NCAA in 2019. It won't get easier in American Conference play either. And of course pointing toward Big 12 competition in '23 or '24, UC will face some of the nation's best teams every year.
One has to be concerned that a team across town with inferior facilities, playing in a considerably weaker conference has just thrashed the Bearcats in four straight, two of which were played at home. Was it an aberration, or is UC on the wrong track?
I'd say 3 one-run losses is a chance encounter more than a trend and certainly not a "thrashing". In general, the development of our bats over the last three years has been very good...our pitching tends to start slow and get better as the season progresses, but in general it has been lackluster at best throughout any season. To put things nicely, if we had even AVERAGE college pitching, we'd likely have 6-8 more wins this year with how well they're hitting the ball. Now, the question we should be asking is if that (pitching issues) is a coaching blindspot, a problem with our recruiting, or just an issue with Ohio youth baseball.
There are a lot of good to decent programs surrounding us, maybe too many: Louisville, Kentucky, Indiana, Xavier, Wright State, Ohio State, Kent State... Miami and Ball State are even pretty decent. Louisville has been able to foster success at a high level, checking their roster and most of their pitching is from the same ground that we recruit: Kentucky, Indiana and Illinois (we have a number of players from those states, especially Indiana).
Could UC begin nabbing players out of the region to beef up the rosters? It does happen in the two primary revenue sports, but I think it has to be tough to get some decent players out of the south or southwest to come up the Queen City to play baseball, even if we are headed to the BXII.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - OKIcat - 03-31-2022 07:32 PM
(03-31-2022 08:31 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:(03-31-2022 08:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:(03-31-2022 07:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:(03-31-2022 06:26 AM)BearcatMan Wrote: If our pitching could even be enough of an obstacle for our opponents that they resemble the mound they pitch from, we'd be winning far more games. Theough 23 games, our pitchers have allowed fewer than 5 runs THREE TIMES.
Our starting pitching ERA is a 6.26...like...you cannot win with that kind of number.
Yes. Pitching has been nothing short of a disaster. I was in and out of the room watching it after the five run bloodletting to begin the game. To Xavier's credit, they appear to have a pretty good team this season. They won 3 out of 4 @ Indiana, scoring 37 runs in that series.
My bigger concern is with our own baseball program. I expected an improved trajectory after an exciting run to the NCAA in 2019. It won't get easier in American Conference play either. And of course pointing toward Big 12 competition in '23 or '24, UC will face some of the nation's best teams every year.
One has to be concerned that a team across town with inferior facilities, playing in a considerably weaker conference has just thrashed the Bearcats in four straight, two of which were played at home. Was it an aberration, or is UC on the wrong track?
I'd say 3 one-run losses is a chance encounter more than a trend and certainly not a "thrashing". In general, the development of our bats over the last three years has been very good...our pitching tends to start slow and get better as the season progresses, but in general it has been lackluster at best throughout any season. To put things nicely, if we had even AVERAGE college pitching, we'd likely have 6-8 more wins this year with how well they're hitting the ball. Now, the question we should be asking is if that (pitching issues) is a coaching blindspot, a problem with our recruiting, or just an issue with Ohio youth baseball.
There are a lot of good to decent programs surrounding us, maybe too many: Louisville, Kentucky, Indiana, Xavier, Wright State, Ohio State, Kent State... Miami and Ball State are even pretty decent. Louisville has been able to foster success at a high level, checking their roster and most of their pitching is from the same ground that we recruit: Kentucky, Indiana and Illinois (we have a number of players from those states, especially Indiana).
Could UC begin nabbing players out of the region to beef up the rosters? It does happen in the two primary revenue sports, but I think it has to be tough to get some decent players out of the south or southwest to come up the Queen City to play baseball, even if we are headed to the BXII.
And maybe the Big 12 is the secret sauce that Googins needs.
Would a top area recruit want to play MAC or Big East baseball over the B12? Even B10 baseball is pretty pedestrian compared to the B12 which vies for the top baseball conference with the SEC most years.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - vabearcat - 04-01-2022 01:00 PM
Very disappointed in the Bearcat baseballers and the Coach. One would have thought that recruiting would have picked up measurably after UC stormed to the AAC tournament championship a couple of years ago and took down defending national champion Oregon State in the first NCAA tournament game. But the same UC pitching woes year after year seem to pose an ongoing obstacle to any sustained success. We’ll be a perennial basement team in the Big XII unless coach gets this fixed—and quickly. Absolutely no excuse for losing to Xavier four straight games. Losing faith that this Coach can turn it around. Is he now in his 6th year?
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - rath v2.0 - 04-01-2022 01:34 PM
It’s a bit of an afterthought program at a school still covered in a snow when the season starts.
Really good NCAA pitching isn’t likely picking up the phone when UC calls. You have to hope to get lucky on some and develop some.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - bearcatfan - 04-01-2022 02:09 PM
I double checked on his bio on gobearcats.com. This is his fifth season. But you can throw out 2020 due to COVID, so it is essentially just his fourth season as UC's head coach.
2018 28-28 (12-12 AAC)
2019 31-31 (13-11 AAC) 2nd place AAC regular season, won AAC tournament. NCAA tournament win over Oregon State
2020 7-8
2021 29-26 (18-14 AAC)
So based on this, I'm willing to wait a bit longer. I don't think pitching will miraculously improve this year but I could be wrong. If not either recruiting/coaching or both would need to be evaluated at the end of this year.
Maybe something will click as they start conference play.
2021
Googins guided the Bearcats to their first winning season since 2011 in 2021. UC finished 29-26 and had five players named to the All-AAC First or Second Team. Evan Shawver was drafted by the Colorado Rockies in the seventh round of the 2021 MLB Draft and pitcher Garrett Schoenle was signed by the Chicago White Sox as a NDFA. The Bearcats had one of the best offenses in the conference in 2021, ranking in the top-3 in just about every offensive category. Their season came to a close in the AAC Tournament after falling to UCF and ECU.
2020
In a pandemic-shortened season, the Bearcats went 7-8 with an undefeated record at home.
2019
UC found itself as the No. 2 seed in the AAC Tournament where it was yet to win a game. The Bearcats trounced UConn, 22-5, to win the AAC Tournament title and advance to the NCAA postseason for the first time in 45 years. The Bearcats' win streak continued with a dramatic 7-6 victory over the national-host Oregon State. The magic came to an end with a loss the next day to eventual CWS runner-up Michigan. UC’s historic 2019 season came to a close with a 31-31 final tally. Six Bearcats earned All-AAC Tournament honors with AJ Bumpass being named the tournament MVP. Three players were named to the Corvallis Regional All-Tournament Team.
2018
In his first season at UC, the Bearcats had their best finish since 2011 with a 28-28 overall record and 12-12 in conference play, including road wins over No. 12 Indiana and No. 10 ECU. Three players earned AAC honors, the most ever for UC.
https://gobearcats.com/sports/baseball/roster/coaches/scott-googins/2824
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - bearcatfan - 04-01-2022 08:13 PM
Great start to the weekend! UC takes game 1 over ECU 7-3. 1-0 in the AAC.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - vabearcat - 04-01-2022 09:05 PM
(04-01-2022 01:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: It’s a bit of an afterthought program at a school still covered in a snow when the season starts.
Really good NCAA pitching isn’t likely picking up the phone when UC calls. You have to hope to get lucky on some and develop some.
If there is snow on the UC campus, there’s also snow over on Victory Parkway. As I said, there is no excuse for losing four straight to Xavier. We hired this baseball coach because our old one couldn’t beat Xavier. Apparently this one can’t either.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - bearcatmark - 04-02-2022 06:41 AM
(04-01-2022 09:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:(04-01-2022 01:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: It’s a bit of an afterthought program at a school still covered in a snow when the season starts.
Really good NCAA pitching isn’t likely picking up the phone when UC calls. You have to hope to get lucky on some and develop some.
If there is snow on the UC campus, there’s also snow over on Victory Parkway. As I said, there is no excuse for losing four straight to Xavier. We hired this baseball coach because our old one couldn’t beat Xavier. Apparently this one can’t either.
That's not why we hired this coach.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - BearcatMan - 04-02-2022 07:57 AM
(04-01-2022 09:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:(04-01-2022 01:34 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: It’s a bit of an afterthought program at a school still covered in a snow when the season starts.
Really good NCAA pitching isn’t likely picking up the phone when UC calls. You have to hope to get lucky on some and develop some.
If there is snow on the UC campus, there’s also snow over on Victory Parkway. As I said, there is no excuse for losing four straight to Xavier. We hired this baseball coach because our old one couldn’t beat Xavier. Apparently this one can’t either.
Dude...3 straight one-run losses is fluky as hell. If you're willing to fire someone over that, you really wouldve been pissed if you cared about UC baseball before this season
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - rath v2.0 - 04-02-2022 08:04 AM
He does seem to understand that for this smaller budgeted cold weather program that the OOC schedule is merely spring training before the real season. And I can’t really argue with that. Not like UC is in a position to be an at large type program.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - OKIcat - 04-02-2022 09:02 AM
UC's pitching last night was really good and five early runs seemed to make all the difference too--not playing from behind all evening. Maybe the Pirates don't like playing in cold weather?
I would agree that the conference season is what it's all about and if UC emerges as a player in that race, March baseball will be long forgotten by May. On the other hand, I think rationalizing a losing record on the basis of Cincinnati weather each year before conference play begins isn't a valid argument. When UC went to the NCAA in 2019, Michigan was a finalist. I'm not suggesting UC has Michigan's baseball resources or tradition; only that northern teams can be successful in college baseball.
With UC's potent offense, a little more pitching like we saw last night could immediately make this squad a contender in the American. Let's see if good Bearcat pitching is contagious in this important series.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - UCBearcatlawjd2 - 04-02-2022 09:45 AM
(04-02-2022 08:04 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote: He does seem to understand that for this smaller budgeted cold weather program that the OOC schedule is merely spring training before the real season. And I can’t really argue with that. Not like UC is in a position to be an at large type program.
It’s basically conference tournament championship or nothing so you better focus on winning conference games and getting the best seed possible.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - rath v2.0 - 04-02-2022 10:33 AM
My guess is he uses guys in OOC games to see who is good at what and then the roles start to form up by conference play.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - vabearcat - 04-02-2022 01:20 PM
I’m curious as to what our win/ loss record over the last few years is against Xavier, Miami of Ohio, Wright State, Indiana and other schools that face the same weather conditions and work the same recruiting areas that UC does. My guess is UC’s resources are more ample than those of Miami, Xavier or Wright State. I think it’s simply foolish to say we can’t win in the pre-conference season against other regional opponents. And yes, I am a multi-year donor to the bearcat baseball program. I’ve seen enough mediocrity over the years while teams like Xavier, Wright State, and Kent State of all schools have made deep runs into the NCAA tournament—not to mention traditional contender Louisville. Our baseball program is simply mediocre. And yet both the AAC and Big XII are good baseball conferences and UC has excellent facilities and good academics to use as lures for greater individual talent and a more competitive team overall.
RE: Bearcat Baseball 2022 Thread - OKIcat - 04-02-2022 04:26 PM
(04-02-2022 01:20 PM)vabearcat Wrote: I’m curious as to what our win/ loss record over the last few years is against Xavier, Miami of Ohio, Wright State, Indiana and other schools that face the same weather conditions and work the same recruiting areas that UC does. My guess is UC’s resources are more ample than those of Miami, Xavier or Wright State. I think it’s simply foolish to say we can’t win in the pre-conference season against other regional opponents. And yes, I am a multi-year donor to the bearcat baseball program. I’ve seen enough mediocrity over the years while teams like Xavier, Wright State, and Kent State of all schools have made deep runs into the NCAA tournament—not to mention traditional contender Louisville. Our baseball program is simply mediocre. And yet both the AAC and Big XII are good baseball conferences and UC has excellent facilities and good academics to use as lures for greater individual talent and a more competitive team overall.
Bolded, well said. I'm a UCAT member and season ticket holder for baseball so i suppose I'm nominally supporting the sport. But I too wonder what it will take to get Bearcat baseball over the hump and consistently winning against X, MAC schools--even NKU for that matter. I like Googins a lot and want him to succeed. I'll be curious to hear if he feels Big 12 membership will completely change the trajectory of recruiting against other schools in this region. With the exception of maybe KY and Louisville, no other P5 schools in our Tri-State region will be competing at the level we'll soon see in the Big 12.