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Interesting thought exercise - usffan - 07-22-2021 11:30 AM
This seems like something somebody's probably done, but it in the age of advanced analytics, there has to be some calculation that quantifies where schools rank in terms of attractiveness with respect to conference alignments.
There would be lots of factors with various weights associated with each factor. Included would be athletic specific items like track record of success (could even be weighted by sport, where the most weight is given to CFB and MBB) and average attendance. There would likely be academic considerations (some ranking based, endowment?) and some just university based (alumni size, location and population). (and no, BraveKnight, I don't think having an on campus stadium vs. playing in an NFL stadium is as big of a dealbreaker as you seem to think it is)
Not so much to create a definitive ranking, but to then bin them. For example, I think we'd all agree that Oklahoma and Texas would be in a much higher tier than any other Big XII school, which is why I tend to dismiss the notion that the Pac-12 would sprint to add others (who's getting excited for an Oregon State-Texas Tech game in Lubbock? And don't get me started on the academic considerations - the Presidents of Stanford and the University of California aren't signing up for the former Oklahoma A&M). But could a B1G start realistically raiding the ACC (who could clearly pay enough to overcome the GOR issues)? Seems pretty clear it would help establish the true pecking order with respect to conferences...
USFFan
RE: Interesting thought exercise - Crayton - 07-22-2021 11:54 AM
I think Athletic Department revenue is a good starting point.
There are also factors like Geography and Culture that may make a lower-ranked school more attractive than a higher-ranked school to a certain conference, but looking solely at schools you can probably just stop at the $$ amount. The value of basketball or academics for certain schools largely depends on the conference and can be described as "Culture".
Then you have the reciprocol factors that make some school immovable toward certain conferences. ND is not joining the ACC, because of their self-identity as an Independent. Clemson is not joining the SEC, because of the decade of money they couldn't bring with them.
RE: Interesting thought exercise - usffan - 07-22-2021 12:00 PM
(07-22-2021 11:54 AM)Crayton Wrote: I think Athletic Department revenue is a good starting point.
There are also factors like Geography and Culture that may make a lower-ranked school more attractive than a higher-ranked school to a certain conference, but looking solely at schools you can probably just stop at the $$ amount. The value of basketball or academics for certain schools largely depends on the conference and can be described as "Culture".
Then you have the reciprocol factors that make some school immovable toward certain conferences. ND is not joining the ACC, because of their self-identity as an Independent. Clemson is not joining the SEC, because of the decade of money they couldn't bring with them.
Granted. You'd also have to take social issues into account as well, which is why, for example, some religious schools might not be as attractive to a conference made up of public schools in more liberal states.
USFFan
RE: Interesting thought exercise - UTEPDallas - 07-22-2021 12:27 PM
BYU is a good example. They check a lot of boxes that the Pac-12 likes but their honor code, support for Prop. 8 in 2008 and no Sunday play is a big factor.
RE: Interesting thought exercise - HerdZoned - 07-22-2021 12:42 PM
(07-22-2021 12:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: BYU is a good example. They check a lot of boxes that the Pac-12 likes but their honor code, support for Prop. 8 in 2008 and no Sunday play is a big factor.
Playing on Sunday is what will keep BYU out of any major conference. BYU isn't bigger than any one conference. Unless the elders that actually run the school agree to play on Sunday then BYU will continue to get shutout.
BYU could have probably hitched a ride to the PAC whatever when they picked up Utah and Colorado in 2011 if some of their ridiculous rules didn't apply.
RE: Interesting thought exercise - Todor - 07-22-2021 02:07 PM
(07-22-2021 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:(07-22-2021 12:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: BYU is a good example. They check a lot of boxes that the Pac-12 likes but their honor code, support for Prop. 8 in 2008 and no Sunday play is a big factor.
Playing on Sunday is what will keep BYU out of any major conference. BYU isn't bigger than any one conference. Unless the elders that actually run the school agree to play on Sunday then BYU will continue to get shutout.
BYU could have probably hitched a ride to the PAC whatever when they picked up Utah and Colorado in 2011 if some of their ridiculous rules didn't apply.
I don't know why any of their rules would be considered ridiculous except to non LDS, in which case, any religious behavior could be considered ridiculous to non members of any group. They don't seem to be hurting for students. And BYU is about a lot more than athletics. Sure, it would be good to be in a big conference in a lot of ways, but they aren't going to sell out to be in the Pac 12. There is virtually nothing they can't achieve as a football Indy in the WCC.
RE: Interesting thought exercise - Frank the Tank - 07-22-2021 02:56 PM
(07-22-2021 02:07 PM)Todor Wrote:(07-22-2021 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:(07-22-2021 12:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: BYU is a good example. They check a lot of boxes that the Pac-12 likes but their honor code, support for Prop. 8 in 2008 and no Sunday play is a big factor.
Playing on Sunday is what will keep BYU out of any major conference. BYU isn't bigger than any one conference. Unless the elders that actually run the school agree to play on Sunday then BYU will continue to get shutout.
BYU could have probably hitched a ride to the PAC whatever when they picked up Utah and Colorado in 2011 if some of their ridiculous rules didn't apply.
I don't know why any of their rules would be considered ridiculous except to non LDS, in which case, any religious behavior could be considered ridiculous to non members of any group. They don't seem to be hurting for students. And BYU is about a lot more than athletics. Sure, it would be good to be in a big conference in a lot of ways, but they aren't going to sell out to be in the Pac 12. There is virtually nothing they can't achieve as a football Indy in the WCC.
Trying to avoid a political discussion here, but simply put, complying with the BYU Honor Code in several instances causes many (and probably all) of the Pac-12 schools to be out of compliance with their *own* codes of conduct. As a result, a Pac-12 school can't in good faith (or even legally when talking about public universities and the First Amendment) agree to be in the same league where they're putting their student-athletes in a position where they need to comply with the Honor Code on BYU's campus that would be straight up non-compliant on their home campuses. Note that this doesn't have to be the case with all religious schools (e.g. Notre Dame's code of conduct doesn't present the same issues).
Whether people agree with BYU personally or not is neither here nor there. There's a legitimate legal discord at this point.
RE: Interesting thought exercise - HerdZoned - 07-22-2021 05:33 PM
(07-22-2021 02:07 PM)Todor Wrote:(07-22-2021 12:42 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:(07-22-2021 12:27 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote: BYU is a good example. They check a lot of boxes that the Pac-12 likes but their honor code, support for Prop. 8 in 2008 and no Sunday play is a big factor.
Playing on Sunday is what will keep BYU out of any major conference. BYU isn't bigger than any one conference. Unless the elders that actually run the school agree to play on Sunday then BYU will continue to get shutout.
BYU could have probably hitched a ride to the PAC whatever when they picked up Utah and Colorado in 2011 if some of their ridiculous rules didn't apply.
I don't know why any of their rules would be considered ridiculous except to non LDS, in which case, any religious behavior could be considered ridiculous to non members of any group. They don't seem to be hurting for students. And BYU is about a lot more than athletics. Sure, it would be good to be in a big conference in a lot of ways, but they aren't going to sell out to be in the Pac 12. There is virtually nothing they can't achieve as a football Indy in the WCC.
The Mormon church is a cult plain and simple. Joseph Smith was a NYC con man who was caught having sex outside of his marriage and conjured up some elaborate hoax. The book of Mormon is worse than what Scientolgist's and JWs believe (Gold Plates no one has ever seen that had alien writing and only Smith could translate them, Native Ameican Indian's were actually Jews in America in ancient times (LDS had to backtrack that when it was actually proved false) is just crazy talk). Also until 1978 black people were prevented from joining. The CES Letter lays out and debunks most everything wrong with the book of Mormon.
I also don't believe a woman spontaneously got pregnant without having intercourse, a man walked on water, fed 1000 people with a loaf of bread and was murdered and came back to life either. Might as well believe the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are real too.