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P5-G5 Designation to Change? - Printable Version

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RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - PicksUp - 06-11-2021 10:31 AM

(06-11-2021 10:22 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The main thing is it gives everybody a chance. That has not be the case before, and it was not fair.

Too bad, life isnt fair.

UTEP will never have the same resources as a schools like Baylor, TCU or Texas Tech. Forget comparing them to Texas or A&M.

Media deals and bowl affiliations wont change.

Money will always show who are the haves and the have nots.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - ArmoredUpKnight - 06-11-2021 10:37 AM

(06-11-2021 10:31 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 10:22 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The main thing is it gives everybody a chance. That has not be the case before, and it was not fair.

Too bad, life isnt fair.

UTEP will never have the same resources as a schools like Baylor, TCU or Texas Tech. Forget comparing them to Texas or A&M.

Media deals and bowl affiliations wont change.

Money will always show who are the haves and the have nots.

There was once a time people thought UCF couldn't catch up to South Florida with all their Big East money.

Just saying....


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - Kit-Cat - 06-11-2021 11:35 AM

(06-11-2021 10:07 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 07:14 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m curious if this will remove the stigma of joining an inferior conference for BYU? With the institutional barriers gone, the MWC and AAC are both in equal footing for the playoff as the PAC 12.

Joining one of those conferences takes their playoff threshold from finishing in the top 11 to get in, to maybe about 16 and they could do so facing an easier schedule that doesn’t include as many P5 opponents.

They might make less in television rights but the post season opportunities get a lot better.

I always tell when they bring the subject of BYU joining a non power conference that for BYU, it starts and ends with the University of Utah being a power conference.

BYU has a legit shot at the XII if realignment hits.

Could be as part of a western package or as a replacement for someone leaving. Perhaps even no package as they measured out high when the XII did an expansion study.

Arizona State because of the Phoenix market is probably the biggest fish the XII might have a real shot with. Place them in a division with the Texas schools.

West (UT, TT, TCU, Baylor, BYU, ASU)
East (WVU, ISU, KU, KSU, OU, OSU)

Still have WVU hanging on the east but that would blunt UT/OU movement over to XII country.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - bill dazzle - 06-11-2021 05:16 PM

The problem I have with the "power" designation in both football and basketball (and I use the term lots in my posts on this board so perhaps I'm a bit hypocritical) is that some use it not realizing that a program (hoops or football) can be high-major (and thus comparable to "power league" members) without being in a "power conference."

This lack of understanding perpetuates the notion some have (and I'll use my two favorite programs as examples) that Vanderbilt football (SEC) is "better" than Memphis football (AAC). I have followed both programs for about 50 years. Vanderbilt clearly plays in a stronger league and has far more resources (i.e., money). But Memphis, compared to VU, has likely sent as many men to the NFL, typically has better attendance, has won lots of big games, etc.

The "power" designation is not to be tossed about lightly (or cluelessly). And with that in mind, I like this 12-team proposal, as it recognizes the highest ranked G5 is worthy of inclusion in the playoff. Now IF, hypothetically, there is a future season when the highest ranked G5 is, say 9-4 and ranked, say, No. 22 in the poll prior to the playoff ... that will not be good for the G5.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - shizzle787 - 06-11-2021 08:01 PM

Me thinks that the big winners in this will be the SEC, Big 10, AAC, and MW. This could be a scheme by the first two to distance themselves from the other three "power" conferences. The AAC and MW theoretically are on a level playing field with at least the Pac-12 and ACC now and maybe even the Big 12. If they go forward with the top 6 conference champions (which I think is for anti-trust reasons) + 6 wild cards, it could turn into a de-facto P6.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - JHS55 - 06-11-2021 08:49 PM

defacto p6...i’ve been suggesting this recently
i was saying that the MWC and AAC might be included in the cfp but not included into the A5 so as not to have to be paid like the A5 get paid and this is some what has happened


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - UTEPDallas - 06-11-2021 09:20 PM

(06-11-2021 08:01 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Me thinks that the big winners in this will be the SEC, Big 10, AAC, and MW. This could be a scheme by the first two to distance themselves from the other three "power" conferences. The AAC and MW theoretically are on a level playing field with at least the Pac-12 and ACC now and maybe even the Big 12. If they go forward with the top 6 conference champions (which I think is for anti-trust reasons) + 6 wild cards, it could turn into a de-facto P6.

The cartel wants all the power to them. If the AAC and MWC start getting spots that the ACC, Big XII and Pac-12 believe belongs to them, it’s the day those conferences will expand, taking the best properties and decimating those two conferences to irrelevance. A school like Cincinnati would suddenly find a spot in the cartel while East Carolina would still be left out.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BruceMcF - 06-12-2021 02:45 AM

(06-11-2021 08:01 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Me thinks that the big winners in this will be the SEC, Big 10, AAC, and MW. This could be a scheme by the first two to distance themselves from the other three "power" conferences. The AAC and MW theoretically are on a level playing field with at least the Pac-12 and ACC now and maybe even the Big 12. If they go forward with the top 6 conference champions (which I think is for anti-trust reasons) + 6 wild cards, it could turn into a de-facto P6.

If the MW and AAC are both "big winners", that's be a de-facto P7. It has to be only one of the two as big winners for it to be a de-facto P6.

It is easy to see "schemes" in things that are just individual participants liking things that serve their interests, so reforms with majority support are the ones that happen to serve a variety of different interests.

______________
(06-11-2021 09:20 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The cartel wants all the power to them. If the AAC and MWC start getting spots that the ACC, Big XII and Pac-12 believe belongs to them, it’s the day those conferences will expand, taking the best properties and decimating those two conferences to irrelevance. A school like Cincinnati would suddenly find a spot in the cartel while East Carolina would still be left out.

Yes, one conference being a "big winner" will entail some SCHOOL OR SCHOOLS in that conference experiencing some success in the CFP format ... and it would not be hard at all to envision that leading to there finally being a pair of schools that meet the "add to value for incumbent schools" test for a Big12 invite.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - quo vadis - 06-12-2021 07:26 AM

Not sure how this 12 team playoff changes the P5 vs G5 dynamic. What am i missing?


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BCSvsBS - 06-12-2021 07:30 AM

(06-12-2021 07:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Not sure how this 12 team playoff changes the P5 vs G5 dynamic. What am i missing?

Perhaps this is the reason.

American's Letter to the Autonomous 5


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - ken d - 06-12-2021 08:46 AM

(06-12-2021 07:30 AM)BCSvsBS Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 07:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Not sure how this 12 team playoff changes the P5 vs G5 dynamic. What am i missing?

Perhaps this is the reason.

American's Letter to the Autonomous 5

The answer to quo's question is that it doesn't. The AAC still wants to be labeled P6, just like it did before the CFP changes, if it actually does change. The NCAA could designate them as an "autonomous conference" today, but that wouldn't make them P6, it would just make them A6.

What it also wouldn't do is change how much their media contract is worth on the open market, or require one of the NY6 bowls to guarantee them a spot every year. It wouldn't cause their attendance in football or hoops to close the very large gap with the current conferences designated by the media as "power conferences". It wouldn't require the eleven members of the CFP board to give them preference for inclusion over the other conferences in the G5 (and, frankly, I don't think those four conferences would vote to give them that preference even if the P5 representatives and the ND representative were to suddenly agree to it).

If I am reading the reports of what the committee's recommendations are, no P5 conference is guaranteed to have a team in the 12 team CFP. The AAC (and the MWC et al) all have the same path to the CFP that the P5 have. But that may change before the proposal is adopted. The proposal as it now stands could significantly alter or abolish any contractual arrangement individual conferences have with the Rose, Sugar and Orange Bowls. These are some of the many details yet to be worked out over the next couple of years before any of this goes into effect.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BCSvsBS - 06-12-2021 09:02 AM

(06-12-2021 08:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 07:30 AM)BCSvsBS Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 07:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Not sure how this 12 team playoff changes the P5 vs G5 dynamic. What am i missing?

Perhaps this is the reason.

American's Letter to the Autonomous 5

The answer to quo's question is that it doesn't. The AAC still wants to be labeled P6, just like it did before the CFP changes, if it actually does change. The NCAA could designate them as an "autonomous conference" today, but that wouldn't make them P6, it would just make them A6.

What it also wouldn't do is change how much their media contract is worth on the open market, or require one of the NY6 bowls to guarantee them a spot every year. It wouldn't cause their attendance in football or hoops to close the very large gap with the current conferences designated by the media as "power conferences". It wouldn't require the eleven members of the CFP board to give them preference for inclusion over the other conferences in the G5 (and, frankly, I don't think those four conferences would vote to give them that preference even if the P5 representatives and the ND representative were to suddenly agree to it).

If I am reading the reports of what the committee's recommendations are, no P5 conference is guaranteed to have a team in the 12 team CFP. The AAC (and the MWC et al) all have the same path to the CFP that the P5 have. But that may change before the proposal is adopted. The proposal as it now stands could significantly alter or abolish any contractual arrangement individual conferences have with the Rose, Sugar and Orange Bowls. These are some of the many details yet to be worked out over the next couple of years before any of this goes into effect.

You're reading too much into what I was addressing. You're thinking and not reading. I was merely posting a link to a letter from the American Conference addressing our lack of Autonomous status and the fact that we wish to receive said status. If in fact the American does receive Autonomous status then by definition, the designations change. As in A6 vs A5 and G4 vs G5.

I mentioned nothing about Pow6r, Bowls or even the playoffs themselves. 07-coffee3


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BruceMcF - 06-12-2021 09:19 AM

(06-12-2021 09:02 AM)BCSvsBS Wrote:  You're reading too much into what I was addressing. You're thinking and not reading. I was merely posting a link to a letter from the American Conference addressing our lack of Autonomous status and the fact that we wish to receive said status. If in fact the American does receive Autonomous status then by definition, the designations change. As in A6 vs A5 and G4 vs G5.

It doesn't change the Go5 designation ... that designation is about being part of the group of five conferences that negotiated as a group and obtained a contractual position in the NY6 bowl system as a group.

There is no G4 unless in a later round of CFP negotiations four conferences negotiate as a group, as opposed to five.

By contrast, it would automatically change the Autonomy 5 into the Autonomy 6.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - RUScarlets - 06-12-2021 09:56 AM

G5 will still be locked out most years after the first school is in. P5 champs will be top 6 almost 95% of the time. Besides the one AQ spot, At-Large will be subject to committee discretion, favoring ND, a P5 division or conference runner up, or and P5 champ that lands an upset and sneaks in as a Top 6 conference champ, meaning a CCG loser will slip in as an At Large ahead of an At Large G5. There are plenty of ways to maneuver around G5 unless they are really blowing the doors off the competition on the field.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BCSvsBS - 06-12-2021 09:57 AM

(06-12-2021 09:19 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 09:02 AM)BCSvsBS Wrote:  You're reading too much into what I was addressing. You're thinking and not reading. I was merely posting a link to a letter from the American Conference addressing our lack of Autonomous status and the fact that we wish to receive said status. If in fact the American does receive Autonomous status then by definition, the designations change. As in A6 vs A5 and G4 vs G5.

It doesn't change the Go5 designation ... that designation is about being part of the group of five conferences that negotiated as a group and obtained a contractual position in the NY6 bowl system as a group.

There is no G4 unless in a later round of CFP negotiations four conferences negotiate as a group, as opposed to five.

By contrast, it would automatically change the Autonomy 5 into the Autonomy 6.

We will agree to disagree. If the American obtains Autonomous designation then they are clearly apart of the "A" group. Autonomous 6 vs Group of 4 whom do not have Autonomous status.

I find it hard to believe that you fail to understand this simple concept. 03-phew


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - bill dazzle - 06-12-2021 11:23 AM

The "power" designation will still be "a thing" with fans and the media as we move into the future — for good, bad or both.

Too many folks (including some on this board) either 1. fail to understand or 2. understand but don't acknowledge that "power" in college football is about 95 percent money/resources (and the other 5 percent results). This is why the American and the Mountain are not "power" leagues in football and never will be perceived as such by objective folks. However, both those leagues have "major" to "high-major" football (and basketball, too) programs.

As I've noted many times on the board, I consider the Big East a "power league" in men's basketball because each of the league's 11 programs is of "major to high-major to blueblood" quality. The "worst" BE program is, at the minimum, a "major" program (in terms of results, resources — or both). The same can be said of all the programs in the P5. That cannot be said of the AAC, Mountain West, A10, etc. (in which some programs are essentially in the "mid-major" to "major" category).

Of note, the AAC is as much a "power league" as the Big East overall because it sponsors football, plays strong baseball (the BE does not), has massive enrollments and budgets, etc.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BCSvsBS - 06-12-2021 11:48 AM

(06-12-2021 11:23 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The "power" designation will still be "a thing" with fans and the media as we move into the future — for good, bad or both.

Too many folks (including some on this board) either 1. fail to understand or 2. understand but don't acknowledge that "power" in college football is about 95 percent money/resources (and the other 5 percent results). This is why the American and the Mountain are not "power" leagues in football and never will be perceived as such by objective folks. However, both those leagues have "major" to "high-major" football (and basketball, too) programs.

As I've noted many times on the board, I consider the Big East a "power league" in men's basketball because each of the league's 11 programs is of "major to high-major to blueblood" quality. The "worst" BE program is, at the minimum, a "major" program (in terms of results, resources — or both). The same can be said of all the programs in the P5. That cannot be said of the AAC, Mountain West, A10, etc. (in which some programs are essentially in the "mid-major" to "major" category).

Of note, the AAC is as much a "power league" as the Big East overall because it sponsors football, plays strong baseball (the BE does not), has massive enrollments and budgets, etc.

And yet some fail to be able to distinguish between the two.

The American Athletic Conference has sent a letter to the Group of conferences known as the "Autonomous 5". In that letter, the American Athletic Conference is requesting to become a member of that group. They have given examples of why they meet the performance standards or criteria to become a member. This in no way shape or form alters their Media Contracts, Bowl Contracts or any other financial compensation. It merely means that they are requesting to become a member of the group that creates and decides Autonomous Legislation outside/within the current framework of the NCAA.

Some people just have to harp ad nauseum on financial differences between conferences. Yet in the tweet that started all this conversation, they never once mentioned financial compensation. They only referenced that the A5 and G5 designations could change. While many of the "Power Conference" fans took issue with this, they failed to understand that the "A" was being used for Advantage 5 (which alludes to financials) as well as Autonomous 5 (Which alludes to Legislation).

I ask that people please understand the difference. Yes the AAC will still lag far behind the rest of the Autonomous 5 in Financials as they are also the Advantaged 5. The AAC is just attempting to be included in the creation and adaption of Autonomous Legislation, for now. Which would make that group the "Autonomous 6" 03-phew


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - UTEPDallas - 06-12-2021 12:14 PM

(06-12-2021 11:48 AM)BCSvsBS Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 11:23 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The "power" designation will still be "a thing" with fans and the media as we move into the future — for good, bad or both.

Too many folks (including some on this board) either 1. fail to understand or 2. understand but don't acknowledge that "power" in college football is about 95 percent money/resources (and the other 5 percent results). This is why the American and the Mountain are not "power" leagues in football and never will be perceived as such by objective folks. However, both those leagues have "major" to "high-major" football (and basketball, too) programs.

As I've noted many times on the board, I consider the Big East a "power league" in men's basketball because each of the league's 11 programs is of "major to high-major to blueblood" quality. The "worst" BE program is, at the minimum, a "major" program (in terms of results, resources — or both). The same can be said of all the programs in the P5. That cannot be said of the AAC, Mountain West, A10, etc. (in which some programs are essentially in the "mid-major" to "major" category).

Of note, the AAC is as much a "power league" as the Big East overall because it sponsors football, plays strong baseball (the BE does not), has massive enrollments and budgets, etc.

And yet some fail to be able to distinguish between the two.

The American Athletic Conference has sent a letter to the Group of conferences known as the "Autonomous 5". In that letter, the American Athletic Conference is requesting to become a member of that group. They have given examples of why they meet the performance standards or criteria to become a member. This in no way shape or form alters their Media Contracts, Bowl Contracts or any other financial compensation. It merely means that they are requesting to become a member of the group that creates and decides Autonomous Legislation outside/within the current framework of the NCAA.

Some people just have to harp ad nauseum on financial differences between conferences. Yet in the tweet that started all this conversation, they never once mentioned financial compensation. They only referenced that the A5 and G5 designations could change. While many of the "Power Conference" fans took issue with this, they failed to understand that the "A" was being used for Advantage 5 (which alludes to financials) as well as Autonomous 5 (Which alludes to Legislation).

I ask that people please understand the difference. Yes the AAC will still lag far behind the rest of the Autonomous 5 in Financials as they are also the Advantaged 5. The AAC is just attempting to be included in the creation and adaption of Autonomous Legislation, for now. Which would make that group the "Autonomous 6" 03-phew

Why would the A5 become the A6? What’s the incentive? I quite frankly don’t see any.

The last thing the P5 or A5 want is to give any legitimacy to an outsider.


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - BCSvsBS - 06-12-2021 12:18 PM

(06-12-2021 12:14 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 11:48 AM)BCSvsBS Wrote:  
(06-12-2021 11:23 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  The "power" designation will still be "a thing" with fans and the media as we move into the future — for good, bad or both.

Too many folks (including some on this board) either 1. fail to understand or 2. understand but don't acknowledge that "power" in college football is about 95 percent money/resources (and the other 5 percent results). This is why the American and the Mountain are not "power" leagues in football and never will be perceived as such by objective folks. However, both those leagues have "major" to "high-major" football (and basketball, too) programs.

As I've noted many times on the board, I consider the Big East a "power league" in men's basketball because each of the league's 11 programs is of "major to high-major to blueblood" quality. The "worst" BE program is, at the minimum, a "major" program (in terms of results, resources — or both). The same can be said of all the programs in the P5. That cannot be said of the AAC, Mountain West, A10, etc. (in which some programs are essentially in the "mid-major" to "major" category).

Of note, the AAC is as much a "power league" as the Big East overall because it sponsors football, plays strong baseball (the BE does not), has massive enrollments and budgets, etc.

And yet some fail to be able to distinguish between the two.

The American Athletic Conference has sent a letter to the Group of conferences known as the "Autonomous 5". In that letter, the American Athletic Conference is requesting to become a member of that group. They have given examples of why they meet the performance standards or criteria to become a member. This in no way shape or form alters their Media Contracts, Bowl Contracts or any other financial compensation. It merely means that they are requesting to become a member of the group that creates and decides Autonomous Legislation outside/within the current framework of the NCAA.

Some people just have to harp ad nauseum on financial differences between conferences. Yet in the tweet that started all this conversation, they never once mentioned financial compensation. They only referenced that the A5 and G5 designations could change. While many of the "Power Conference" fans took issue with this, they failed to understand that the "A" was being used for Advantage 5 (which alludes to financials) as well as Autonomous 5 (Which alludes to Legislation).

I ask that people please understand the difference. Yes the AAC will still lag far behind the rest of the Autonomous 5 in Financials as they are also the Advantaged 5. The AAC is just attempting to be included in the creation and adaption of Autonomous Legislation, for now. Which would make that group the "Autonomous 6" 03-phew

Why would the A5 become the A6? What’s the incentive? I quite frankly don’t see any.

The last thing the P5 or A5 want is to give any legitimacy to an outsider.

I never said anything was going to happen. I simply stated that the Letter sent by the American Conference to the Autonomous 5 was the reason for the tweet and this thread. Something could or could not happen. I don't know. 04-cheers


RE: P5-G5 Designation to Change? - UTEPDallas - 06-12-2021 12:25 PM

(06-12-2021 02:45 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(06-11-2021 08:01 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Me thinks that the big winners in this will be the SEC, Big 10, AAC, and MW. This could be a scheme by the first two to distance themselves from the other three "power" conferences. The AAC and MW theoretically are on a level playing field with at least the Pac-12 and ACC now and maybe even the Big 12. If they go forward with the top 6 conference champions (which I think is for anti-trust reasons) + 6 wild cards, it could turn into a de-facto P6.

If the MW and AAC are both "big winners", that's be a de-facto P7. It has to be only one of the two as big winners for it to be a de-facto P6.

It is easy to see "schemes" in things that are just individual participants liking things that serve their interests, so reforms with majority support are the ones that happen to serve a variety of different interests.

______________
(06-11-2021 09:20 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  The cartel wants all the power to them. If the AAC and MWC start getting spots that the ACC, Big XII and Pac-12 believe belongs to them, it’s the day those conferences will expand, taking the best properties and decimating those two conferences to irrelevance. A school like Cincinnati would suddenly find a spot in the cartel while East Carolina would still be left out.

Yes, one conference being a "big winner" will entail some SCHOOL OR SCHOOLS in that conference experiencing some success in the CFP format ... and it would not be hard at all to envision that leading to there finally being a pair of schools that meet the "add to value for incumbent schools" test for a Big12 invite.

The Big XII and ACC would strike first. The Big XII has room for two or four more schools. The ACC can go divisionless and add a 15th school for football (16th for basketball) or go to 16 and form two divisions with eight schools. The Pac-12 can be more selective and wait since the MWC is no longer a threat and they can live with Boise State ruling that conference.

The P5 want to keep all the power and money to themselves. Any indication that one or two G5 conferences are a threat in taking a playoff spot (if it goes to 12) that belongs to them (since they’d lose money), it’s the day they’ll strike with the blessing of their tv partners.