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+----- Thread: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers (/thread-922591.html)
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - westsidewolf1989 - 05-31-2021 08:36 AM
(05-31-2021 08:30 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Nice point. At this point who would coach the camps? These are important camps especially the HS camps for possible recruit evaluations especially after not being able to have them last summer.
Morris Buttermaker
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Musicowl1965 - 05-31-2021 10:25 AM
(05-31-2021 08:36 AM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:(05-31-2021 08:30 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Nice point. At this point who would coach the camps? These are important camps especially the HS camps for possible recruit evaluations especially after not being able to have them last summer.
Morris Buttermaker
Nice. But I assume beer will need to be part of the camp cost!!!
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Owl Is In Chains - 05-31-2021 10:30 AM
(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Musicowl1965 - 05-31-2021 11:33 AM
(05-31-2021 10:30 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
Absolutely agree but camps usually have all the current coaches in attendance with the volunteer assistant given the majority of the camp money. Sometimes players are there as well to help out. But volunteer alone can't run an effective camp especially with the younger kids. But back to you point this is NOT a reason to hurry a selection.
My suspicion is that the staff has been informed that the new coach will be picking the assistants but they may still be involved with the camps unless they positions with another team and want to move on.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - waltgreenberg - 05-31-2021 04:00 PM
The Northwestern head coach just stepped down after 6 seasons. By all accounts a good guy, but never had much success in a baseball conference no better than CUSA.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Buho00 - 05-31-2021 06:39 PM
Not sure how excited I'll get about hiring a guy I probably never heard of, the same week Lance Berkman is named HC at Houston Baptist. The Bragga hire was a baffling step down from the start. Seemed more like a solid Rice football type of hire, not the level of an elite baseball program. The way WG was taken out by JK was possibly the domino that lead to any riff between Berkman and WG and played a role in Berkman not being the Rice HC over Bragga nor his replacement now.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - waltgreenberg - 05-31-2021 07:26 PM
(05-31-2021 06:39 PM)Buho00 Wrote: Not sure how excited I'll get about hiring a guy I probably never heard of, the same week Lance Berkman is named HC at Houston Baptist. The Bragga hire was a baffling step down from the start. Seemed more like a solid Rice football type of hire, not the level of an elite baseball program. The way WG was taken out by JK was possibly the domino that lead to any riff between Berkman and WG and played a role in Berkman not being the Rice HC over Bragga nor his replacement now.
Again, Berkman, with no prior college coaching experience at any level, was never a serious contender the last time round, despite the impressive amount of homework and strategizing he did. And his relationship with WG was destroyed before the JK debacle a year later.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - peanutgallery - 05-31-2021 07:36 PM
"Unconventional wisdom" Rice should have seriously considered him the last time around, which makes me not take the athletic department at Rice seriously.
Rice will now be competing with him for recruits in Houston. Seriously?!
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - HootyHoot2 - 05-31-2021 07:39 PM
(05-31-2021 10:30 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
The entire staff was indeed terminated.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - waltgreenberg - 05-31-2021 07:43 PM
(05-31-2021 07:36 PM)peanutgallery Wrote: "Unconventional wisdom" Rice should have seriously considered him the last time around, which makes me not take the athletic department at Rice seriously.
Rice will now be competing with him for recruits in Houston. Seriously?!
??? Perhaps on very rare occasions, but guys that qualify academically for Rice are not going to go to HBU. UT or A&M, perhaps, but not HBU.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Owl Is In Chains - 05-31-2021 08:26 PM
(05-31-2021 07:39 PM)HootyHoot2 Wrote:(05-31-2021 10:30 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
The entire staff was indeed terminated.
Is there not an interim coach? Seems like someone has to be around just for administrative type things. Who would be communicating with those kids enrolling in August? No question the new coach gets to pick the staff.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - waltgreenberg - 05-31-2021 09:48 PM
(05-31-2021 08:26 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:39 PM)HootyHoot2 Wrote:(05-31-2021 10:30 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
The entire staff was indeed terminated.
Is there not an interim coach? Seems like someone has to be around just for administrative type things. Who would be communicating with those kids enrolling in August? No question the new coach gets to pick the staff.
Aren't they still on the payroll until the end of the fiscal year on June 30? Why would they be terminated before then, especially before a head coach is even named. Some one has to stay in contact with existing recruits to try to keep them in fold.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Musicowl1965 - 05-31-2021 10:10 PM
(05-31-2021 09:48 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:(05-31-2021 08:26 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:39 PM)HootyHoot2 Wrote:(05-31-2021 10:30 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
The entire staff was indeed terminated.
Is there not an interim coach? Seems like someone has to be around just for administrative type things. Who would be communicating with those kids enrolling in August? No question the new coach gets to pick the staff.
Aren't they still on the payroll until the end of the fiscal year on June 30? Why would they be terminated before then, especially before a head coach is even named. Some one has to stay in contact with existing recruits to try to keep them in fold.
Agree but I guess if contracts are bought out it’s effective immediately. I’d heard Janish was interim but I’ve not been able to find that anywhere. He’d be the logical choice IMO. Recruit contact was likely done shortly after news came out so not much additional contact is required until a new coach is announced.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - WRCisforgotten79 - 05-31-2021 11:50 PM
(05-31-2021 09:48 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: Aren't they still on the payroll until the end of the fiscal year on June 30? Why would they be terminated before then, especially before a head coach is even named. Some one has to stay in contact with existing recruits to try to keep them in fold.
We ARE talking about Rice University, right?
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - franklyconfused - 06-01-2021 10:36 AM
(05-31-2021 09:48 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:(05-31-2021 08:26 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:39 PM)HootyHoot2 Wrote:(05-31-2021 10:30 AM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:08 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote: I suspect a new coach will be named this week. It's certainly not the most important element of the job search but the Rice baseball camps are scheduled to begin on June 14th.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the camps in the past have been run by the volunteer assistant. AFAIK, I don't think the staff was terminated, so no reason the camps can't continue. In fact, I think there is a showcase camp on June 8.
Bragga was hired in mid-June and evidently the camps happened then. There is no reason to hurry a selection because of camps.
The entire staff was indeed terminated.
Is there not an interim coach? Seems like someone has to be around just for administrative type things. Who would be communicating with those kids enrolling in August? No question the new coach gets to pick the staff.
Aren't they still on the payroll until the end of the fiscal year on June 30? Why would they be terminated before then, especially before a head coach is even named. Some one has to stay in contact with existing recruits to try to keep them in fold.
Given the near certainty that the (hopefully) soon incoming coach will want 100% turnover on the staff, what quality of work would you expect from the outgoing staff? Unless they've gotten some inside news that the new HC may retain them, I would expect them to spend all day looking for a new job, anyway. When they're interviewing for another role, will the new school particularly care that their work quality at Rice deteriorated the moment they found out that they're certain to be fired because Bragga was fired?
It's all very well and admirable for a person to give 100% to the job they're still contracted for, but it's unrealistic to the point of negligence for us to actually expect that from dead men walking for all the same reasons why security at a private company escorts a person out the building as soon as HR tells them they're laid off. For a college example, look back to how the final Briles football staff at Baylor phoned in the 2016 season after Art got fired that summer. They only worked long enough to earn their bowl bonuses, and then (other than interim HC Jim Grobe) they all did the bare minimum to operate a team and lost every game. They had a very talented team; even if you want to say that they were overrated at #8, they definitely shouldn't have lost to a Charlie Strong Texas team that finished 5-7.
The main exception to this dynamic in college coaching is graduate student assistants, but they still have their academic programs to report to which earns the Athletics Department's trust that they'll keep at their jobs.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Ourland - 06-01-2021 11:18 AM
(05-31-2021 07:26 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:(05-31-2021 06:39 PM)Buho00 Wrote: Not sure how excited I'll get about hiring a guy I probably never heard of, the same week Lance Berkman is named HC at Houston Baptist. The Bragga hire was a baffling step down from the start. Seemed more like a solid Rice football type of hire, not the level of an elite baseball program. The way WG was taken out by JK was possibly the domino that lead to any riff between Berkman and WG and played a role in Berkman not being the Rice HC over Bragga nor his replacement now.
Again, Berkman, with no prior college coaching experience at any level, was never a serious contender the last time round, despite the impressive amount of homework and strategizing he did. And his relationship with WG was destroyed before the JK debacle a year later.
+1. Agree. A major D1 university has no business hiring a guy with no prior head coaching experience, no matter how popular he may be with fans. If he works out at HBU, hire him next time around.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - mrbig - 06-01-2021 11:29 AM
Regarding Berkman, I think Rice is unique and I think Berkman is unique. So while I generally agree that for the vast majority of D1 schools, hiring a head coach with no previous collegiate or professional head coaching experience would be a bad move, I think the Berkman/Rice dynamic is one of the few exceptions where it could have made sense 3 years ago and would still make sense today.
One of the primary reasons is that it will be exceptionally hard for Rice to "climb the ladder" in any sport if we are just changing coaches every 3-5 years if a current hire is successful. Rice has not shown sustained success in hiring coaches in any major sport. Lacking that ability, Rice is much more likely to find sustained success in a given sport hiring a coach who is both excellent and will stay at Rice, rather than looking to upgrade their job at another school ASAP.
Berkman is one of the few coaching options out there that I can comfortably believe would have stayed at Rice if he was successful. The problem with the "maybe hire Berkman next time around if Berkman is successful at HBU" is that Berkman, if he is successful at HBU, will not have much reason to leave HBU. He doesn't need the money. He likely wants to stay in the Houston area, so moving from HBU to Rice doesn't improve that. And if he builds a successful program at HBU with better facilities and consistent winning ... does he really love Rice so much to leave that and come back to start from scratch? Especially after Rice bypassed him twice? Maybe ... but maybe not.
I'll be happy with Hallmark since he sounds well-regarded by the insiders around here. I don't know anyone else that might be in the running. But everything I heard about Berkman as a player and as a person, both while I was at Rice and since then, leads me to believe that he will be a successful D1 head coach if that is what he wants to do. I can't say that about all the baseball players I knew at Rice, but I will say that about Berkman.
Rice took a chance on Graham when everyone else seemed to think he was too old. I would have been thrilled if Rice had taken a chance on Berkman. Maybe going with a more traditional hire will work out, but it didn't with Bragga (unsuccessful) or Bailiff (ok, but didn't move Rice to a new tier) or Rhoades (left to quickly) or Braun (unsuccessful). It hasn't worked (yet) with Bloomgren and I would say the jury is still out a little on Pera (though I also think Pera is a less traditional hire than the others).
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - Owl Is In Chains - 06-01-2021 12:06 PM
(06-01-2021 11:18 AM)Ourland Wrote:(05-31-2021 07:26 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:(05-31-2021 06:39 PM)Buho00 Wrote: Not sure how excited I'll get about hiring a guy I probably never heard of, the same week Lance Berkman is named HC at Houston Baptist. The Bragga hire was a baffling step down from the start. Seemed more like a solid Rice football type of hire, not the level of an elite baseball program. The way WG was taken out by JK was possibly the domino that lead to any riff between Berkman and WG and played a role in Berkman not being the Rice HC over Bragga nor his replacement now.
Again, Berkman, with no prior college coaching experience at any level, was never a serious contender the last time round, despite the impressive amount of homework and strategizing he did. And his relationship with WG was destroyed before the JK debacle a year later.
+1. Agree. A major D1 university has no business hiring a guy with no prior head coaching experience, no matter how popular he may be with fans. If he works out at HBU, hire him next time around.
This response has nothing to do with Berkman. I just do not understand why you have to have prior head coaching experience to get a job. Hasn't that been a problem in the NFL where fired coaches just get recycled somewhere else.
Somehow, you have to get your first head coaching job. No reason to me it has to start at the lower levels. If you have skills, you have skills. The aggies hired Childress with no head coaching experience. Seemed to work out for them. Skip Bertman was an assistant at Miami when LSU hired him. Also seemed to work out. If Graham had retired and Pierce was still an assistant at Rice, would you have not considered him?
Some guys just need an opportunity.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - HawaiiOwl - 06-01-2021 03:17 PM
(06-01-2021 11:29 AM)mrbig Wrote: Regarding Berkman, I think Rice is unique and I think Berkman is unique. So while I generally agree that for the vast majority of D1 schools, hiring a head coach with no previous collegiate or professional head coaching experience would be a bad move, I think the Berkman/Rice dynamic is one of the few exceptions where it could have made sense 3 years ago and would still make sense today.
One of the primary reasons is that it will be exceptionally hard for Rice to "climb the ladder" in any sport if we are just changing coaches every 3-5 years if a current hire is successful. Rice has not shown sustained success in hiring coaches in any major sport. Lacking that ability, Rice is much more likely to find sustained success in a given sport hiring a coach who is both excellent and will stay at Rice, rather than looking to upgrade their job at another school ASAP.
Berkman is one of the few coaching options out there that I can comfortably believe would have stayed at Rice if he was successful. The problem with the "maybe hire Berkman next time around if Berkman is successful at HBU" is that Berkman, if he is successful at HBU, will not have much reason to leave HBU. He doesn't need the money. He likely wants to stay in the Houston area, so moving from HBU to Rice doesn't improve that. And if he builds a successful program at HBU with better facilities and consistent winning ... does he really love Rice so much to leave that and come back to start from scratch? Especially after Rice bypassed him twice? Maybe ... but maybe not.
I'll be happy with Hallmark since he sounds well-regarded by the insiders around here. I don't know anyone else that might be in the running. But everything I heard about Berkman as a player and as a person, both while I was at Rice and since then, leads me to believe that he will be a successful D1 head coach if that is what he wants to do. I can't say that about all the baseball players I knew at Rice, but I will say that about Berkman.
Rice took a chance on Graham when everyone else seemed to think he was too old. I would have been thrilled if Rice had taken a chance on Berkman. Maybe going with a more traditional hire will work out, but it didn't with Bragga (unsuccessful) or Bailiff (ok, but didn't move Rice to a new tier) or Rhoades (left to quickly) or Braun (unsuccessful). It hasn't worked (yet) with Bloomgren and I would say the jury is still out a little on Pera (though I also think Pera is a less traditional hire than the others).
+1, I agree, and we don't what kind of recruits he will get at HBU. There are likely plenty of academically qualified players who still consider going pro more important than where their degree came from.
RE: Bragga is OUT Per Kendall Rogers - OptimisticOwl - 06-01-2021 03:19 PM
(06-01-2021 03:17 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:(06-01-2021 11:29 AM)mrbig Wrote: Regarding Berkman, I think Rice is unique and I think Berkman is unique. So while I generally agree that for the vast majority of D1 schools, hiring a head coach with no previous collegiate or professional head coaching experience would be a bad move, I think the Berkman/Rice dynamic is one of the few exceptions where it could have made sense 3 years ago and would still make sense today.
One of the primary reasons is that it will be exceptionally hard for Rice to "climb the ladder" in any sport if we are just changing coaches every 3-5 years if a current hire is successful. Rice has not shown sustained success in hiring coaches in any major sport. Lacking that ability, Rice is much more likely to find sustained success in a given sport hiring a coach who is both excellent and will stay at Rice, rather than looking to upgrade their job at another school ASAP.
Berkman is one of the few coaching options out there that I can comfortably believe would have stayed at Rice if he was successful. The problem with the "maybe hire Berkman next time around if Berkman is successful at HBU" is that Berkman, if he is successful at HBU, will not have much reason to leave HBU. He doesn't need the money. He likely wants to stay in the Houston area, so moving from HBU to Rice doesn't improve that. And if he builds a successful program at HBU with better facilities and consistent winning ... does he really love Rice so much to leave that and come back to start from scratch? Especially after Rice bypassed him twice? Maybe ... but maybe not.
I'll be happy with Hallmark since he sounds well-regarded by the insiders around here. I don't know anyone else that might be in the running. But everything I heard about Berkman as a player and as a person, both while I was at Rice and since then, leads me to believe that he will be a successful D1 head coach if that is what he wants to do. I can't say that about all the baseball players I knew at Rice, but I will say that about Berkman.
Rice took a chance on Graham when everyone else seemed to think he was too old. I would have been thrilled if Rice had taken a chance on Berkman. Maybe going with a more traditional hire will work out, but it didn't with Bragga (unsuccessful) or Bailiff (ok, but didn't move Rice to a new tier) or Rhoades (left to quickly) or Braun (unsuccessful). It hasn't worked (yet) with Bloomgren and I would say the jury is still out a little on Pera (though I also think Pera is a less traditional hire than the others).
+1, I agree, and we don't what kind of recruits he will get at HBU. There are likely plenty of academically qualified players who still consider going pro more important than where their degree came from.
Especially since many of the better ones will be planning to leave after their junior year.