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Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Printable Version

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RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Bcatbog - 04-11-2021 04:19 PM

(04-10-2021 07:01 PM)chicago bearcat Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 06:57 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  This process is an absolute disgrace to my beloved alma matre. An absolute disgrace.

I usually side with management - but not now.

I hope Brannen cleans my beloved alma matre’s clock.

Basement dwelling posters are ignorant of how corporate management is supposed to work.

But then sports chat boards are full of individuals not yet exposed to the real world. This entire foolery is classic poor management.

Bob, get over yourself. Every poster here lives in the "real world."

(04-11-2021 03:43 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I was wondering who Cunningham reports to. Straight to Pinto? Or an associate professor in the English department?

“ Bob, get over yourself. Every poster here lives in the "real world."”

No they don’t. I see little evidence of people understanding how the process for “firing for cause” is done. I also see little evidence of people understanding how quality proactive management works. I particularly laugh at those thinking Mars is a buffoon.

I almost always support management in labor disputes. But not this time, as this has been handled horribly. Oh my, surprise surprise come the end of the season. Perhaps Cunningham was isolated from the situation. If so, I laugh.

When Brannen gets $5 mil I will be vindicated. I particularly laugh at those thinking Mars is a buffoon. Let the final settlement be the judge of who is right.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - rath v2.0 - 04-11-2021 04:23 PM

You’re still fired, John.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Captain Bearcat - 04-11-2021 04:41 PM

(04-11-2021 12:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 06:31 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  A good review doesn't save any one from being let go. Not in an at will state.

Nobody is saying Brannen can't or couldn't be fired. But that doesn't absolve the school from complying with their contract to pay $5.25M for doing so.


A good review means it's very difficult to fire someone "for cause." The good review is evidence that the admin told him that he was fulfilling his side of the contract, (i.e., there is no "cause" to fire him).

He can still be fired, though.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - UCBearcatlawjd2 - 04-11-2021 04:48 PM

(04-11-2021 04:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 12:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 06:31 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  A good review doesn't save any one from being let go. Not in an at will state.

Nobody is saying Brannen can't or couldn't be fired. But that doesn't absolve the school from complying with their contract to pay $5.25M for doing so.


A good review means it's very difficult to fire someone "for cause." The good review is evidence that the admin told him that he was fulfilling his side of the contract, (i.e., there is no "cause" to fire him).

He can still be fired, though.

You can get a good review and your employer can then uncover bad behavior or other inappropriate actions. It’s a data point but please let’s not act that’s it proves you can’t fire someone for cause.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Bearhawkeye - 04-11-2021 04:58 PM

(04-11-2021 04:48 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 04:41 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 12:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  
(04-10-2021 06:31 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  A good review doesn't save any one from being let go. Not in an at will state.

Nobody is saying Brannen can't or couldn't be fired. But that doesn't absolve the school from complying with their contract to pay $5.25M for doing so.


A good review means it's very difficult to fire someone "for cause." The good review is evidence that the admin told him that he was fulfilling his side of the contract, (i.e., there is no "cause" to fire him).

He can still be fired, though.

You can get a good review and your employer can then uncover bad behavior or other inappropriate actions. It’s a data point but please let’s not act that’s it proves you can’t fire someone for cause.

Didn't he just say that? 01-wingedeagle


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - doss2 - 04-11-2021 05:15 PM

(04-11-2021 03:43 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I was wondering who Cunningham reports to. Straight to Pinto? Or an associate professor in the English department?

Obviously not a Professor of Management or HR.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - doss2 - 04-11-2021 05:25 PM

Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Captain Bearcat - 04-11-2021 05:36 PM

(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Bcatbog - 04-11-2021 06:55 PM

(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - doss2 - 04-11-2021 07:18 PM

(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

No one should ever get a review that on honest reflection is unexpected, because a good boss regularly counsels, supports and guides his employees. The newer the relationship the more frequent to interaction.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Lush - 04-12-2021 09:16 AM

i don't get why our ad wouldn't want jb to report directly to him


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - crex043 - 04-12-2021 11:14 AM

(04-11-2021 07:18 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

No one should ever get a review that on honest reflection is unexpected, because a good boss regularly counsels, supports and guides his employees. The newer the relationship the more frequent to interaction.

These types of bosses are far and few in between. Most organizations are plagued by inefficiency and lack of communication, especially when it comes to middle management positions and regardless of visibility. I'm surprised your real-world experience hasn't piqued you to relay that to us hoi-polloi.

And lack of frequent and meaningful reviews still can result in you being terminated due to poor performance or violation of work policy. It's just that most of us won't receive legal counsel to compensate us for our employer's incompetence. I'm sure you are lawyered up, so you'll have to excuse us.

If it turns out that Brannen was terminated due to his handling of student-athletes, I'm not sure how sympathetic a jury of people who will almost assuredly be making less than what Brannen has made in his contract thus far over the next ten years will be.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - doss2 - 04-12-2021 11:35 AM

(04-12-2021 11:14 AM)crex043 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 07:18 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

No one should ever get a review that on honest reflection is unexpected, because a good boss regularly counsels, supports and guides his employees. The newer the relationship the more frequent to interaction.

These types of bosses are far and few in between. Most organizations are plagued by inefficiency and lack of communication, especially when it comes to middle management positions and regardless of visibility. I'm surprised your real-world experience hasn't piqued you to relay that to us hoi-polloi.

And lack of frequent and meaningful reviews still can result in you being terminated due to poor performance or violation of work policy. It's just that most of us won't receive legal counsel to compensate us for our employer's incompetence. I'm sure you are lawyered up, so you'll have to excuse us.

If it turns out that Brannen was terminated due to his handling of student-athletes, I'm not sure how sympathetic a jury of people who will almost assuredly be making less than what Brannen has made in his contract thus far over the next ten years will be.

I always met with my directs weekly and I blocked out 1 hour each. It rarely took my that 20 minutes. Often it was real quick. I would ask how are the projects proceeding? Can I help? And so forth.

I also insisted they do the same with there reports.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Captain Bearcat - 04-12-2021 11:54 AM

(04-12-2021 11:35 AM)doss2 Wrote:  
(04-12-2021 11:14 AM)crex043 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 07:18 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

No one should ever get a review that on honest reflection is unexpected, because a good boss regularly counsels, supports and guides his employees. The newer the relationship the more frequent to interaction.

These types of bosses are far and few in between. Most organizations are plagued by inefficiency and lack of communication, especially when it comes to middle management positions and regardless of visibility. I'm surprised your real-world experience hasn't piqued you to relay that to us hoi-polloi.

And lack of frequent and meaningful reviews still can result in you being terminated due to poor performance or violation of work policy. It's just that most of us won't receive legal counsel to compensate us for our employer's incompetence. I'm sure you are lawyered up, so you'll have to excuse us.

If it turns out that Brannen was terminated due to his handling of student-athletes, I'm not sure how sympathetic a jury of people who will almost assuredly be making less than what Brannen has made in his contract thus far over the next ten years will be.

I always met with my directs weekly and I blocked out 1 hour each. It rarely took my that 20 minutes. Often it was real quick. I would ask how are the projects proceeding? Can I help? And so forth.

I also insisted they do the same with there reports.

What he's saying is: not all bosses are as conscientious as you.

There's a reason you're so successful and rich, Doss: it's that few people are as good as you.

I sometimes think that John Lennon should have added an extra line in his song: "Imagine there's a country... where everyone is as good as Doss."


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Baleen - 04-12-2021 08:27 PM

(04-12-2021 11:14 AM)crex043 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 07:18 PM)doss2 Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

No one should ever get a review that on honest reflection is unexpected, because a good boss regularly counsels, supports and guides his employees. The newer the relationship the more frequent to interaction.

These types of bosses are far and few in between. Most organizations are plagued by inefficiency and lack of communication, especially when it comes to middle management positions and regardless of visibility. I'm surprised your real-world experience hasn't piqued you to relay that to us hoi-polloi.

And lack of frequent and meaningful reviews still can result in you being terminated due to poor performance or violation of work policy. It's just that most of us won't receive legal counsel to compensate us for our employer's incompetence. I'm sure you are lawyered up, so you'll have to excuse us.

If it turns out that Brannen was terminated due to his handling of student-athletes, I'm not sure how sympathetic a jury of people who will almost assuredly be making less than what Brannen has made in his contract thus far over the next ten years will be.

I've seen this jury argument mentioned a few times in here. Not sure how much experience some on here have with these types of contracts, but I can't imagine any universe where UC would allow for a jury trial in a contract dispute like this.

For what it's worth, these types of contracts almost always have some sort of arbitration clause (which is settled by a 3rd party arbitrator) and almost always waive any rights to trial by jury.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - rath v2.0 - 04-12-2021 08:37 PM

I’ve actually drafted coaching contracts. Many don’t have arbitration clauses. Some do but it has to be something both parties see value in. I don’t recall seeing that listed in the MOU syllabus.

I’ve still never seen the actual agreement that Brannen signed.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - Baleen - 04-12-2021 08:47 PM

(04-12-2021 08:37 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I’ve actually drafted coaching contracts. Many don’t have arbitration clauses. Some do but it has to be something both parties see value in. I don’t recall seeing that listed in the MOU syllabus.

I’ve still never seen the actual agreement that Brannen signed.

Absolutely believe what you're saying, just gobsmacked that either party would want to risk a dispute on a jury trial (in my mind neither the big University nor the potentially unpopular coach would want to put their faith in people who will have a likely unconscious bias). I would think a coaching contract would one of the most obvious uses of arbitration ever...


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - rath v2.0 - 04-13-2021 04:36 AM

This is an oversimplification, but unless it’s discussed in advanced by both parties, if I put a mandatory ADR/arbitration provision in an agreement it’s often just as a risk management tool for my client...almost always because I know it will benefit my client to the possible detriment to the other side’s ability to fully prosecute a claim if a dispute arises.

Same reason you have to agree to it in the fine print when you buy an iPhone, etc. That provision isn’t exactly in there to help the consumer.

A coach’s counsel is likely to not want that in there since the overwhelming number of times one of these contracts is litigated it’s the coach suing the school, not the other way around. Wouldn’t want to eliminate one of the arrows in the quiver.

This is a unique situation since the dispute could have some very subjective emotional testimony if it ever came to that. A civil complaint will lget filed but this will not likely get past the point of discovery before it’s settled.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - the_dude - 04-13-2021 06:39 AM

(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

You are the proof of your own allegations that the boards are dominated by emotion when you called everyone here basement dwellers. Not to mention your other get-off-my-lawn, shakes-fists-at-clouds, nonsensical comments.

Proof:
Brannen was bad at the 1 thing he was hired to do... coach basketball.
If he recruited soft kids, recruit better at your next stop.
If he coached better, we would have won more.
If he was a better coach he wouldn't have alienated almost all of his players and the entire university and most of the city
Making fans long for the days of first and second round ncaa exits means you didn't do your job.

Allegations:
Cunningham didn't handle this in the best way possible.... Could be true, but unlike the above, we don't have enough proof because he's not being drug away kicking and screaming while his crazy lawyer blasts the internet with insanity.


RE: Does who Brannen reported to matter? - bearcatdp - 04-13-2021 06:49 AM

(04-13-2021 06:39 AM)the_dude Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 06:55 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

(04-11-2021 05:36 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-11-2021 05:25 PM)doss2 Wrote:  Getting a good review and then alleging a long pattern of misbehavior, says the superior was not doing his job.

All this supports that Cunningham/Bowes failed to support/counsel. A jury will be sympathetic to Brannen for having an absent boss or incompetent boss because likely every person on the jury has had one or more.

Verdict for Brannen.

This.

The former CFO is correct (For those of you who didn't know, Doss is a former CFO).

Amen Doss. You are one whose life experience is the real world. Kids have not experienced reality. Sport chat boards are dominated by emotions.

You are the proof of your own allegations that the boards are dominated by emotion when you called everyone here basement dwellers. Not to mention your other get-off-my-lawn, shakes-fists-at-clouds, nonsensical comments.

Proof:
Brannen was bad at the 1 thing he was hired to do... coach basketball.
If he recruited soft kids, recruit better at your next stop.
If he coached better, we would have won more.
If he was a better coach he wouldn't have alienated almost all of his players and the entire university and most of the city
Making fans long for the days of first and second round ncaa exits means you didn't do your job.

Allegations:
Cunningham didn't handle this in the best way possible.... Could be true, but unlike the above, we don't have enough proof because he's not being drug away kicking and screaming while his crazy lawyer blasts the internet with insanity.

If his good review was for the fiscal containing the 19-20 season and the allegations occurred during the 20-21 season, Brannen might not have an argument. If Cunningham had to intervene (counsel) during 20-21 (likely more than once) and it is documented, he can show that Brannen didn't take to the counceling, things were untenible and it had to end. My manager/HR take but I'm no lawyer.