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Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Wahoowa84 - 03-31-2021 07:42 AM
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/2021-ncaa-tournament-philadelphia-big-5-20210331.html
Great article on conference alignment for the Philly schools. It will be a four part series.
As expected, Penn’s affiliation with high endowment Ivy League members comes out well. Nova’s membership in the Big East is categorized as one of good fortune.
Temple (AAC), St Joe’s & LaSalle (A10) and Drexel (CAA) current affiliations don’t get as much love.
============
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/la-salle/la-salle-gola-basketball-arena-philadelphia-20210401.html
Second article in the series about Philly’s City 6 program. An in-depth review of each schools’ facilities.
====================
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/st-joes/st-josephs-recruiting-taylor-funk-jordan-hall-billy-lange-20210402.html
Third in the series...about recruiting and the transfer portal (a current basketball MO: “get old and stay old”)
=====================
https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/villanova/big-5-tournament-20210404.html
Last in the series...creating excitement in the Big 5 by starting a tournament.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - esayem - 03-31-2021 07:54 AM
St. Joe’s and LaSalle would be crazy to leave. They have a built-in recruiting pitch of playing in a superior league to the MAAC and CAA.
Temple might already do this in a normal season, but should load up with regional foes and of course the Big 5. In football, keep teams like Villanova, Penn St., UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and Pitt on the schedule. Maybe even West Virginia, which surely would like some regional games.
Also I think it’s funny Manhattan College is in the Bronx.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - ken d - 03-31-2021 08:02 AM
(03-31-2021 07:54 AM)esayem Wrote: St. Joe’s and LaSalle would be crazy to leave. They have a built-in recruiting pitch of playing in a superior league to the MAAC and CAA.
Temple might already do this in a normal season, but should load up with regional foes and of course the Big 5. In football, keep teams like Villanova, Penn St., UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and Pitt on the schedule. Maybe even West Virginia, which surely would like some regional games.
Also I think it’s funny Manhattan College is in the Bronx.
And it's barely in New York City. Just a little further north and you are in Yonkers.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Wahoowa84 - 03-31-2021 08:07 AM
I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - LostInSpace - 03-31-2021 08:14 AM
(03-31-2021 07:42 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/2021-ncaa-tournament-philadelphia-big-5-20210331.html
Great article on conference alignment for the Philly schools. It will be a five part series.
As expected, Penn’s affiliation with high endowment Ivy League members comes out well. Nova’s membership in the Big East is categorized as one of good fortune.
Temple (AAC), St Joe’s & LaSalle (A10) and Drexel (CAA) current affiliations don’t get as much love.
On the contrary regarding Temple. That article was the first time Mike Jensen has acknowledged that Temple has the best currently achievable conference affiliation for the university. He even explicitly cited the AAC as being a place where Temple basketball can be successful. He didn’t indulge the “Woe be Temple for leaving the A10” idiocy for a change. I was surprised by how unsentimental the article was. I expected worse.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - esayem - 03-31-2021 08:17 AM
(03-31-2021 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.
Did they though or were they just under consideration? I’ve also read Boston University was considered.
Holy Cross balked at the A10 and St. Joe’s ended up getting their spot.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - LostInSpace - 03-31-2021 08:47 AM
(03-31-2021 08:17 AM)esayem Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.
Did they though or were they just under consideration? I’ve also read Boston University was considered.
Holy Cross balked at the A10 and St. Joe’s ended up getting their spot.
Ernie Casale who was Temple AD at the time always claimed that Temple was approached before Villanova. Casale had led the effort to create an eastern conference before Paterno got involved and he came close to getting one formed in the early 70s but couldn’t get Penn’s State to join. It wouldn’t have been surprising if Gavitt approached Temple first given his reasons for creating the Big East.
I haven’t heard of the A10 approaching Holy Cross in the early 80s. Holy Cross and La Salle joined the MAAC at roughly the same time Temple and St. Joe’s joined the A10. St Joe’s had a significantly better basketball program than Holy Cross at the time and were only a year removed from having an Elite Eight appearance. It’s possible Holy Cross was approached but it would have been a bit of an odd choice to be instead of rather than in addition to St. Joe’s.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Wahoowa84 - 03-31-2021 10:05 AM
(03-31-2021 08:14 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:(03-31-2021 07:42 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/2021-ncaa-tournament-philadelphia-big-5-20210331.html
Great article on conference alignment for the Philly schools. It will be a five part series.
As expected, Penn’s affiliation with high endowment Ivy League members comes out well. Nova’s membership in the Big East is categorized as one of good fortune.
Temple (AAC), St Joe’s & LaSalle (A10) and Drexel (CAA) current affiliations don’t get as much love.
On the contrary regarding Temple. That article was the first time Mike Jensen has acknowledged that Temple has the best currently achievable conference affiliation for the university. He even explicitly cited the AAC as being a place where Temple basketball can be successful. He didn’t indulge the “Woe be Temple for leaving the A10” idiocy for a change. I was surprised by how unsentimental the article was. I expected worse.
Fair point. Jensen cites the importance of football to Temple. It’s just that football interests result in an airplane conference. The AAC is the right conference, but it is also very dispersed. In terms of geographic rivalries, the AAC is not as ideal as Penn & Ivy or Nova & Big East.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Captain Bearcat - 03-31-2021 10:45 AM
There's a line from the story that I disagree with:
Quote:The old idea about winning 20 games gets you in the March Madness conversation isn’t true right now for mid-majors. Dayton was 21-11 on Selection Sunday in 2019. NIT. St. Bonaventure was 20-12 in 2017. NIT. Davidson was 24-9 in 2019. NIT.
The season is longer now than it used to be. Due to exempt tournaments (which started in 2000), and longer conference tournaments (because conferences are larger than they used to be).
In 1998, Dayton went 20-11 in the regular season and went to the NIT.
In 1999, Xavier went 21-10 in the regular season and went to the NIT.
In 2000, Xavier went 20-11 in the regular season and went to the NIT.
In 2002, Dayton went 20-10 in the regular season and went to the NIT.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - UpStreamRedTeam - 03-31-2021 11:04 AM
(03-31-2021 07:54 AM)esayem Wrote: St. Joe’s and LaSalle would be crazy to leave. They have a built-in recruiting pitch of playing in a superior league to the MAAC and CAA.
Temple might already do this in a normal season, but should load up with regional foes and of course the Big 5. In football, keep teams like Villanova, Penn St., UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and Pitt on the schedule. Maybe even West Virginia, which surely would like some regional games.
Also I think it’s funny Manhattan College is in the Bronx.
Manhattan College WAS in Manhattan when it was founded but moved to the present location in 1922.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - esayem - 03-31-2021 11:11 AM
(03-31-2021 11:04 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:(03-31-2021 07:54 AM)esayem Wrote: St. Joe’s and LaSalle would be crazy to leave. They have a built-in recruiting pitch of playing in a superior league to the MAAC and CAA.
Temple might already do this in a normal season, but should load up with regional foes and of course the Big 5. In football, keep teams like Villanova, Penn St., UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and Pitt on the schedule. Maybe even West Virginia, which surely would like some regional games.
Also I think it’s funny Manhattan College is in the Bronx.
Manhattan College WAS in Manhattan when it was founded but moved to the present location in 1922.
That's what I read on the Wiki. I imagine that could confuse some out-of-towners.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - esayem - 03-31-2021 11:16 AM
(03-31-2021 08:47 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:17 AM)esayem Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.
Did they though or were they just under consideration? I’ve also read Boston University was considered.
Holy Cross balked at the A10 and St. Joe’s ended up getting their spot.
Ernie Casale who was Temple AD at the time always claimed that Temple was approached before Villanova. Casale had led the effort to create an eastern conference before Paterno got involved and he came close to getting one formed in the early 70s but couldn’t get Penn’s State to join. It wouldn’t have been surprising if Gavitt approached Temple first given his reasons for creating the Big East.
I haven’t heard of the A10 approaching Holy Cross in the early 80s. Holy Cross and La Salle joined the MAAC at roughly the same time Temple and St. Joe’s joined the A10. St Joe’s had a significantly better basketball program than Holy Cross at the time and were only a year removed from having an Elite Eight appearance. It’s possible Holy Cross was approached but it would have been a bit of an odd choice to be instead of rather than in addition to St. Joe’s.
Holy Cross almost became its 10th member, but the Crusaders decided at the last minute to remain in the ECAC North basketball conference for at least one more season. As late as yesterday afternoon, Temple Athletic Director Ernie Casale was unsure about Holy Cross."! don't know if it's a closed issue," he said. "I don't know what Holy Cross is going to do." Casale, however, had no doubts that his school's best move was to flee the sinking East Coast Conference to join the Eastern 8.
Eastern 8 becomes 8+1 today
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Todor - 03-31-2021 12:18 PM
(03-31-2021 11:04 AM)UpStreamRedTeam Wrote:(03-31-2021 07:54 AM)esayem Wrote: St. Joe’s and LaSalle would be crazy to leave. They have a built-in recruiting pitch of playing in a superior league to the MAAC and CAA.
Temple might already do this in a normal season, but should load up with regional foes and of course the Big 5. In football, keep teams like Villanova, Penn St., UConn, UMass, Rutgers, and Pitt on the schedule. Maybe even West Virginia, which surely would like some regional games.
Also I think it’s funny Manhattan College is in the Bronx.
Manhattan College WAS in Manhattan when it was founded but moved to the present location in 1922.
Then there is Manhattanville College, who got eminent domained to the burbs by NYC. Campus taken by City College. So they moved to Purchase, where the SUNY system promptly established a campus a few miles away a decade or so later. Bummer.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - LostInSpace - 03-31-2021 12:24 PM
(03-31-2021 11:16 AM)esayem Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:47 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:17 AM)esayem Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:07 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: I was surprised to learn that Temple was originally invited to the Big East, prior to Villanova’s admission. Temple AD’s need to align with JoPa/Penn State for football in the late 1970s had a huge impact. They were really in the same boat as Rutgers and Holy Cross.
Did they though or were they just under consideration? I’ve also read Boston University was considered.
Holy Cross balked at the A10 and St. Joe’s ended up getting their spot.
Ernie Casale who was Temple AD at the time always claimed that Temple was approached before Villanova. Casale had led the effort to create an eastern conference before Paterno got involved and he came close to getting one formed in the early 70s but couldn’t get Penn’s State to join. It wouldn’t have been surprising if Gavitt approached Temple first given his reasons for creating the Big East.
I haven’t heard of the A10 approaching Holy Cross in the early 80s. Holy Cross and La Salle joined the MAAC at roughly the same time Temple and St. Joe’s joined the A10. St Joe’s had a significantly better basketball program than Holy Cross at the time and were only a year removed from having an Elite Eight appearance. It’s possible Holy Cross was approached but it would have been a bit of an odd choice to be instead of rather than in addition to St. Joe’s.
Holy Cross almost became its 10th member, but the Crusaders decided at the last minute to remain in the ECAC North basketball conference for at least one more season. As late as yesterday afternoon, Temple Athletic Director Ernie Casale was unsure about Holy Cross."! don't know if it's a closed issue," he said. "I don't know what Holy Cross is going to do." Casale, however, had no doubts that his school's best move was to flee the sinking East Coast Conference to join the Eastern 8.
Eastern 8 becomes 8+1 today
Thanks. I had completely forgotten about the fact that Holy Cross was invited.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - random asian guy - 03-31-2021 02:58 PM
(03-31-2021 10:05 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:14 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:(03-31-2021 07:42 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/2021-ncaa-tournament-philadelphia-big-5-20210331.html
Great article on conference alignment for the Philly schools. It will be a five part series.
As expected, Penn’s affiliation with high endowment Ivy League members comes out well. Nova’s membership in the Big East is categorized as one of good fortune.
Temple (AAC), St Joe’s & LaSalle (A10) and Drexel (CAA) current affiliations don’t get as much love.
On the contrary regarding Temple. That article was the first time Mike Jensen has acknowledged that Temple has the best currently achievable conference affiliation for the university. He even explicitly cited the AAC as being a place where Temple basketball can be successful. He didn’t indulge the “Woe be Temple for leaving the A10” idiocy for a change. I was surprised by how unsentimental the article was. I expected worse.
Fair point. Jensen cites the importance of football to Temple. It’s just that football interests result in an airplane conference. The AAC is the right conference, but it is also very dispersed. In terms of geographic rivalries, the AAC is not as ideal as Penn & Ivy or Nova & Big East.
The ideal confernece for Temple would be Joe Pa’s eastern conference. It would be Pennsylvania centered conference with PSU, Pitt, Temple, and possibily Nova as core members.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Frank the Tank - 03-31-2021 03:11 PM
It seems as though all of the Philly schools are in the best conference that's reasonably attainable for them except for Drexel:
(1) Penn - Ivy League is the top academic league
(2) Villanova - Big East is the top non-FBS league
(3) Temple - AAC is the top G5 league. The only better situation is to go to a P5 conference. Maybe going the UConn route of football independence and joining the Big East for everything else would be financially viable, but Villanova may block them from the Big East, anyway.
(4) LaSalle - Without a realistic Big East option, the A-10 is really the next best option and they're lucky to be there more than vice versa
(5) St. Joseph's - Same as LaSalle
(6) Drexel - This is the only Philly school that should be actively searching to move, although it's hard to see what's realistically better. I'm sure that they'd love an A-10 invite, but adding another Philly school probably doesn't make sense. The Patriot League would be great but they have high academic requirements. Would the MAAC make more sense than the CAA for them? It seems pretty borderline and the CAA is probably higher on the pecking order.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - LostInSpace - 03-31-2021 03:40 PM
(03-31-2021 03:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote: It seems as though all of the Philly schools are in the best conference that's reasonably attainable for them except for Drexel:
(1) Penn - Ivy League is the top academic league
(2) Villanova - Big East is the top non-FBS league
(3) Temple - AAC is the top G5 league. The only better situation is to go to a P5 conference. Maybe going the UConn route of football independence and joining the Big East for everything else would be financially viable, but Villanova may block them from the Big East, anyway.
(4) LaSalle - Without a realistic Big East option, the A-10 is really the next best option and they're lucky to be there more than vice versa
(5) St. Joseph's - Same as LaSalle
(6) Drexel - This is the only Philly school that should be actively searching to move, although it's hard to see what's realistically better. I'm sure that they'd love an A-10 invite, but adding another Philly school probably doesn't make sense. The Patriot League would be great but they have high academic requirements. Would the MAAC make more sense than the CAA for them? It seems pretty borderline and the CAA is probably higher on the pecking order.
Drexel and Delaware have been conference mates for Olympic sports since 1958. They have moved in tandem from Middle Atlantic Conference, to East Coast Conference, to North Atlantic Conference/America East, to CAA. Drexel is content with its affiliation institutionally and athletically especially the affiliation with UD.
Drexel fans may yearn for A10 membership but Drexel’s administration does not. Drexel wants to be in a conference with Delaware, Northeastern, Willam and Mary and Elon. A conference with Iona, Siena and Marist not so much. They know PL isn’t an option. Three of their ECC conference mates left them to form the PL.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - Fighting Muskie - 03-31-2021 04:21 PM
BC
Syracuse
Temple
Penn St
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
WVU
St John’s
Villanova
Georgetown
Would have made awesome Eastern conference.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - mikeinsec127 - 03-31-2021 05:51 PM
(03-31-2021 02:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:(03-31-2021 10:05 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:(03-31-2021 08:14 AM)LostInSpace Wrote:(03-31-2021 07:42 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/2021-ncaa-tournament-philadelphia-big-5-20210331.html
Great article on conference alignment for the Philly schools. It will be a five part series.
As expected, Penn’s affiliation with high endowment Ivy League members comes out well. Nova’s membership in the Big East is categorized as one of good fortune.
Temple (AAC), St Joe’s & LaSalle (A10) and Drexel (CAA) current affiliations don’t get as much love.
On the contrary regarding Temple. That article was the first time Mike Jensen has acknowledged that Temple has the best currently achievable conference affiliation for the university. He even explicitly cited the AAC as being a place where Temple basketball can be successful. He didn’t indulge the “Woe be Temple for leaving the A10” idiocy for a change. I was surprised by how unsentimental the article was. I expected worse.
Fair point. Jensen cites the importance of football to Temple. It’s just that football interests result in an airplane conference. The AAC is the right conference, but it is also very dispersed. In terms of geographic rivalries, the AAC is not as ideal as Penn & Ivy or Nova & Big East.
The ideal confernece for Temple would be Joe Pa’s eastern conference. It would be Pennsylvania centered conference with PSU, Pitt, Temple, and possibily Nova as core members.
The problem with the Paterno conference was an issue of revenue sharing. JPa wanted equal revenue sharing for all sports but football. That revenue would be split according to home attendance. Even then State Penn had a stadium far larger than the other schools. That is why BC, Cuse and eventually Pitt accepted the BE invites. Rutgers and Temple stuck with the Penn St plan until it was dead. By then it was too late to get back into the BE picture because the spots were offered to Seton Hall and Villanova.
RE: Conference Alignment for Philly Schools - quo vadis - 03-31-2021 06:39 PM
(03-31-2021 07:42 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/temple/2021-ncaa-tournament-philadelphia-big-5-20210331.html
Great article on conference alignment for the Philly schools. It will be a five part series.
As expected, Penn’s affiliation with high endowment Ivy League members comes out well. Nova’s membership in the Big East is categorized as one of good fortune.
Temple (AAC), St Joe’s & LaSalle (A10) and Drexel (CAA) current affiliations don’t get as much love.
Hard to argue with his conclusions. Penn of course is in a perfect situation, and Villanova's is very good. Temple's is not very good but clearly the best they can do. The others are stuck in a no-money A10 or worse.