(06-12-2022 02:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:57 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:27 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 12:06 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Ahh, I missed that detail that the return was scheduled for July 1 2023.

I too doubt that Lamar will cancel their move. But I'm not the one valiantly holding out hope that Incarnate Word is cancelling their move either.

If Incarnate Word is smart, since they are the ones holding all of the cards, they should negotiate a later date, say 2 years from now, and see what the landscape looks like at that time. (Question marks at this time - UTRGV and Tarleton State, plus could inflation, recession or depression affect enrollment?)

Sigh. They're not holding "all the cards." They're holding A card. The WAC will have problems getting to 6 without them, but they'll probably still get there.

And what exactly is UIW supposed to negotiate for? From what I understand, their facilities are garbage (that's why the Texas 4 wanted to get away from them in the first place), so it's not like they can demand that the WAC host tournaments on Incarnate Word's campus. I doubt that renting out the Alamodome is an option.

I'm not sure how Tarleton State is a "question mark." In 2 years and a couple of weeks, they'll be a full Division I member. I don't know what the question is. "But maybe they won't, in some off the wall scenario." Okay, but you could say the same for anybody.

UTRGV *is* a question mark, because I don't think most people would be surprised if a new, expensive, start-from-scratch football program gets delayed or cancelled. But that still leaves the 2 UTah schools, Abilene Christian, Stephen F Austin, Tarleton State and they'd need to scrape up one more if Incarnate Word takes your advice.

The same Texas 4 that wanted to get away from “them”, still invited them a year later.

Yeah, after the WAC lost Sam Houston State and the original Zany Scheme (Texas 4 plus UTU, SUU, maybe UTRGV) went bust and the WAC was desperate again. SMUstang is arguing that somehow UIW is in a more powerful negotiating position now than they were in November when they jumped in the first place.

Also, 2 of the "Texas Four". Sam Houston went FBS and LAmar's new leadership decided the whole thing was stupid and not worth a few hundred thousand dollars in airfare per year. (Remember, Lamar is in the middle of the Southland footprint, UIW is on the western edge)

EDIT:m To summarize my position, there is very little profit in jumping from one bottom-feeding one-bid FCS conference to another. But there is even less profit in jumping back. You can't unspill the milk.

(06-12-2022 02:21 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:57 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:27 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  If Incarnate Word is smart, since they are the ones holding all of the cards, they should negotiate a later date, say 2 years from now, and see what the landscape looks like at that time. (Question marks at this time - UTRGV and Tarleton State, plus inflation, recession or depression)

Sigh. They're not holding "all the cards." They're holding A card. The WAC will have problems getting to 6 without them, but they'll probably still get there.

And what exactly is UIW supposed to negotiate for? From what I understand, their facilities are garbage (that's why the Texas 4 wanted to get away from them in the first place), so it's not like they can demand that the WAC host tournaments on Incarnate Word's campus. I doubt that renting out the Alamodome is an option.

I'm not sure how Tarleton State is a "question mark." In 2 years and a couple of weeks, they'll be a full Division I member. I don't know what the question is. "But maybe they won't, in some off the wall scenario." Okay, but you could say the same for anybody.

UTRGV *is* a question mark, because I don't think most people would be surprised if a new, expensive, start-from-scratch football program gets delayed or cancelled. But that still leaves the 2 UTah schools, Abilene Christian, Stephen F Austin, Tarleton State and they'd need to scrape up one more if Incarnate Word takes your advice.

The same Texas 4 that wanted to get away from “them”, still invited them a year later.

Yeah, after the WAC lost Sam Houston State and the original Zany Scheme (Texas 4 plus UTU, SUU, maybe UTRGV) went bust and the WAC was desperate again. SMUstang is arguing that somehow UIW is in a more powerful negotiating position now than they were in November when they jumped in the first place.

Also, 2 of the "Texas Four". Sam Houston went FBS and LAmar's new leadership decided the whole thing was stupid and not worth a few hundred thousand dollars in airfare per year. (Remember, Lamar is in the middle of the Southland footprint, UIW is on the western edge)

EDIT:m To summarize my position, there is very little profit in jumping from one bottom-feeding one-bid FCS conference to another. But there is even less profit in jumping back. You can't unspill the milk.

If UIW is available to the WAC now, they will still be available in 2024, especially if they negotiate a new entry date. In that case, there is no advantage in making the move now.

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

(06-12-2022 02:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:57 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 01:27 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 12:06 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Ahh, I missed that detail that the return was scheduled for July 1 2023.

I too doubt that Lamar will cancel their move. But I'm not the one valiantly holding out hope that Incarnate Word is cancelling their move either.

If Incarnate Word is smart, since they are the ones holding all of the cards, they should negotiate a later date, say 2 years from now, and see what the landscape looks like at that time. (Question marks at this time - UTRGV and Tarleton State, plus inflation, recession or depression)

Sigh. They're not holding "all the cards." They're holding A card. The WAC will have problems getting to 6 without them, but they'll probably still get there.

And what exactly is UIW supposed to negotiate for? From what I understand, their facilities are garbage (that's why the Texas 4 wanted to get away from them in the first place), so it's not like they can demand that the WAC host tournaments on Incarnate Word's campus. I doubt that renting out the Alamodome is an option.

I'm not sure how Tarleton State is a "question mark." In 2 years and a couple of weeks, they'll be a full Division I member. I don't know what the question is. "But maybe they won't, in some off the wall scenario." Okay, but you could say the same for anybody.

UTRGV *is* a question mark, because I don't think most people would be surprised if a new, expensive, start-from-scratch football program gets delayed or cancelled. But that still leaves the 2 UTah schools, Abilene Christian, Stephen F Austin, Tarleton State and they'd need to scrape up one more if Incarnate Word takes your advice.

The same Texas 4 that wanted to get away from “them”, still invited them a year later.

Yeah, after the WAC lost Sam Houston State and the original Zany Scheme (Texas 4 plus UTU, SUU, maybe UTRGV) went bust and the WAC was desperate again. SMUstang is arguing that somehow UIW is in a more powerful negotiating position now than they were in November when they jumped in the first place.

Also, 2 of the "Texas Four". Sam Houston went FBS and LAmar's new leadership decided the whole thing was stupid and not worth a few hundred thousand dollars in airfare per year. (Remember, Lamar is in the middle of the Southland footprint, UIW is on the western edge)

EDIT:m To summarize my position, there is very little profit in jumping from one bottom-feeding one-bid FCS conference to another. But there is even less profit in jumping back. You can't unspill the milk.

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

(06-12-2022 11:30 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 07:23 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 09:29 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 09:02 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 06:30 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Who says they are arbitrary and capricious? The MEMBERS of which Bellermine is a member, agreed upon them. This is different than student athletes, who don’t have a vote

The NCAA required the ASUN to enforce the restrictions. It was the welfare of the student athletes who were harmed.

You mean the restrictions that all the members of the ASUN agreed-upon?

People act like the NCAA is some autonomous body other than an association controlled by the presidents of the member schools

The NCAA exercises monopoly power.

The ASUN agreed to treat Bellarmine as a peer in the fellowship of DI Athletics, and were responsible for ensuring that Bellarmine complied with the rules.

The NCAA rule is arbitrary. It is no different than if baskets from beyond the arc were only worth 2.5 points because Bellarmine was not a full DI member yet.

The University presidents had valid reasons for the transition period

As I have stated in other threads if Utah Tech or Tarelton State can verify that all of their student athletes were admitted D1 standards I have no problem

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, UTRGV or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

(06-12-2022 03:00 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

Probably not, and it will be interesting to see if any SMU fans show up at those locations.

(06-12-2022 03:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

I was going to get snarky and list the driveable SMU games if they jumped to the Sun Belt. But they do have North Texas and UTSA, plus Tulane and Tulsa, and old SWC-mate Rice.

(06-12-2022 03:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-11-2022 07:50 AM)SMUstang Wrote:  [quote='OscarWildeCat' pid='18269146' dateline='1654942760']
[quote='SMUstang' pid='18267474' dateline='1654865678']
The future of WAC football hinges on Incarnate Word’s decision.

A couple of posts later:

Quote:Nobody said that the WAC was doomed.

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)

Quote:Being a conservative, for many reasons, I favor close knit conferences. I think they are better both for the players and the fans.

In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

I was going to get snarky and list the driveable SMU games if they jumped to the Sun Belt. But they do have North Texas and UTSA, plus Tulane and Tulsa, and old SWC-mate Rice.

(06-12-2022 03:07 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 03:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  A couple of posts later:

Um, YOU did. (I did not, it may take a different form though)


In terms of actual travel time, the Southland isn't THAT much more close-knit than the WAC is if your location is San Antonio.

True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

I was going to get snarky and list the driveable SMU games if they jumped to the Sun Belt. But they do have North Texas and UTSA, plus Tulane and Tulsa, and old SWC-mate Rice.

SMU had “17,000” for their final home game vs Tulsa. Who they have been conference mates with since 1996. I’m sure if you look at game photos from that day, probably like 5,000 people.

(06-12-2022 03:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 03:07 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 03:00 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:49 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 02:41 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  True, but do the fans at UIW, SFA, ACU, or Tarleton really care about CBU, GCU, SU, SUU, Utah Tech or Utah Valley? or visa versa?

Do SMU fans care about UAB, FAU, and Charlotte? Or vice versa?

I was going to get snarky and list the driveable SMU games if they jumped to the Sun Belt. But they do have North Texas and UTSA, plus Tulane and Tulsa, and old SWC-mate Rice.

SMU had “17,000” for their final home game vs Tulsa. Who they have been conference mates with since 1996. I’m sure if you look at game photos from that day, probably like 5,000 people.

So, relatively local opponents don't really make that much difference at the gate, do they?

(06-12-2022 03:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  By and large, I think y'all are overvaluing how important FCS football is to any of these conversations. It's not as big a deal as you think.

(06-12-2022 04:34 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 03:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  By and large, I think y'all are overvaluing how important FCS football is to any of these conversations. It's not as big a deal as you think.

Speaking of which: do you have any news about Incarnate Word going back to the Southland?

(06-12-2022 04:34 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 03:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  By and large, I think y'all are overvaluing how important FCS football is to any of these conversations. It's not as big a deal as you think.

Speaking of which: do you have any news about Incarnate Word going back to the Southland?

(06-12-2022 07:52 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 04:34 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(06-12-2022 03:56 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  By and large, I think y'all are overvaluing how important FCS football is to any of these conversations. It's not as big a deal as you think.

Speaking of which: do you have any news about Incarnate Word going back to the Southland?

Might not break the news but hope to have something later this week. I talked to officials at the Southland a few days ago, I'm supposed to talk to the WAC tomorrow afternoon. When I have something, I'll share it on EP, I promise.