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+---- Thread: What is the future of the Southland Conference? (/thread-919257.html)
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - Fighting Muskie - 02-14-2022 10:35 AM
Unless the OVC falls apart and a few football schools come looking for a home, I think the Southland’s future will be sitting and waiting for D2 schools in Texas to be ready to move up.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - dbackjon - 02-14-2022 11:19 AM
(02-12-2022 06:23 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:(12-10-2021 05:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote: I think the WAC is more interested in football schools right now, and UTA do not move the needle. Same for Southland.
Should we start an individual thread of all of David’s “good calls?”
You mean the 1 school in a list of 100 that moves?
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - Todor - 02-14-2022 11:30 AM
(04-20-2021 12:49 PM)johnintx Wrote:(04-20-2021 11:23 AM)SMUstang Wrote:(04-20-2021 10:58 AM)solohawks Wrote: It just seems crazy to me that WTA&M isn't all about the WAC.
They aren't going to get a better geographical fit
It might be simply that they are not losing money at the D2 level, but they would be at the D1 level (more scholarships and bigger staff). It costs a lot (nearly $2 million) to upgrade. Plus it is a long trip to Seattle and even Utah and Beaumont from Amarillo for their Olympic sports. Think like a university president.
Yep. Buses across Texas > flights throughout the West, especially for multiple sports. Plus, there is the transition period to D-I, where recruiting is challenging at best. When moving up a classification, a school is basically restarting its athletic program.
In west Texas, nearby is a relative term, but they still have neighbors in the LSC. Midwestern State, UT-Permian Basin, and Eastern New Mexico are reasonably close. Lubbock Christian is also close, but doesn't have football. In the WAC, Abilene Christian and Tarleton (former conference foes) are comparable bus trips, while all other travel is to the other part of Texas or to the western half of the US. The Southland is concentrated in Louisiana and the other part of Texas. Unless some of their friends join them, their closest games would be in either Houston or Natchitoches.
Plus, they are a public institution, part of the Texas A&M system. As a public school, they are sensitive to political issues. If the politicians don't want them to go, they won't. If they need to protect other state schools (even those not in the A&M system), they'll consider it. With that said, Tarleton is an A&M school and has already made the move.
I do agree with the other posters that WTAMU needs to consider itself first. They're the only game in town in Amarillo, and they can make this work. They've been D-I before, though it's been almost 40 years. With that in mind, there is institutional memory passed down from administrators and supporters. They may believe it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than to be a minnow at the bottom of D-I.
They play football against Central Washington and Western Oregon, go to a basketball tournament in Vegas, golf in California, track in Michigan and multiple trips to meets in Oregon and California. Three day softball trip to Alabama. I don’t think travel costs are that big of an issue. Nearly all of their sports are going all over the country currently.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - jimrtex - 02-14-2022 01:13 PM
(02-14-2022 11:30 AM)Todor Wrote:The A&M system appears interested in nurturing all the schools in the system. This may be a reflection of their chancellor John Sharp who is clearly a Texan. The chancellor of UT has moved about (Nebraska, CUNY, North Carolina) and there may be a tendency to expect the Austin campus be in control like they were in the SWC and Big 12. I'm surprised they haven't had a run in with the SEC yet.(04-20-2021 12:49 PM)johnintx Wrote:(04-20-2021 11:23 AM)SMUstang Wrote:(04-20-2021 10:58 AM)solohawks Wrote: It just seems crazy to me that WTA&M isn't all about the WAC.
They aren't going to get a better geographical fit
It might be simply that they are not losing money at the D2 level, but they would be at the D1 level (more scholarships and bigger staff). It costs a lot (nearly $2 million) to upgrade. Plus it is a long trip to Seattle and even Utah and Beaumont from Amarillo for their Olympic sports. Think like a university president.
Yep. Buses across Texas > flights throughout the West, especially for multiple sports. Plus, there is the transition period to D-I, where recruiting is challenging at best. When moving up a classification, a school is basically restarting its athletic program.
In west Texas, nearby is a relative term, but they still have neighbors in the LSC. Midwestern State, UT-Permian Basin, and Eastern New Mexico are reasonably close. Lubbock Christian is also close, but doesn't have football. In the WAC, Abilene Christian and Tarleton (former conference foes) are comparable bus trips, while all other travel is to the other part of Texas or to the western half of the US. The Southland is concentrated in Louisiana and the other part of Texas. Unless some of their friends join them, their closest games would be in either Houston or Natchitoches.
Plus, they are a public institution, part of the Texas A&M system. As a public school, they are sensitive to political issues. If the politicians don't want them to go, they won't. If they need to protect other state schools (even those not in the A&M system), they'll consider it. With that said, Tarleton is an A&M school and has already made the move.
I do agree with the other posters that WTAMU needs to consider itself first. They're the only game in town in Amarillo, and they can make this work. They've been D-I before, though it's been almost 40 years. With that in mind, there is institutional memory passed down from administrators and supporters. They may believe it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than to be a minnow at the bottom of D-I.
They play football against Central Washington and Western Oregon, go to a basketball tournament in Vegas, golf in California, track in Michigan and multiple trips to meets in Oregon and California. Three day softball trip to Alabama. I don’t think travel costs are that big of an issue. Nearly all of their sports are going all over the country currently.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - TexasTerror - 02-15-2022 05:13 PM
We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - Fresno St. Alum - 02-15-2022 07:29 PM
(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - dbackjon - 02-15-2022 07:57 PM
(02-15-2022 07:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
Just misdirection - them and ENMU are coming as a package
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - AZcats - 02-15-2022 08:36 PM
(02-15-2022 07:57 PM)dbackjon Wrote:(02-15-2022 07:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
Just misdirection - them and ENMU are coming as a package
For months David kept saying how wrong Matt Brown was but never said why. Now he'll blame someone else and come up with a different story. Would it be a package with ENMU or WNMU; he's listed both as D1 candidates.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - Fresno St. Alum - 02-15-2022 08:45 PM
(02-15-2022 08:36 PM)AZcats Wrote:He's gonna throw in NM Highlands too, they have to go in as a group to replace NM St.(02-15-2022 07:57 PM)dbackjon Wrote:(02-15-2022 07:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
Just misdirection - them and ENMU are coming as a package
For months David kept saying how wrong Matt Brown was but never said why. Now he'll blame someone else and come up with a different story. Would it be a package with ENMU or WNMU; he's listed both as D1 candidates.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - MattBrownEP - 02-15-2022 09:09 PM
I tried to tell y'all! I wasn't making that up!
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - chargeradio - 02-15-2022 09:56 PM
(02-15-2022 07:57 PM)dbackjon Wrote:Are we sure it's not Upper Iowa?(02-15-2022 07:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
Just misdirection - them and ENMU are coming as a package
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - AZcats - 02-15-2022 10:22 PM
(02-15-2022 09:56 PM)chargeradio Wrote:(02-15-2022 07:57 PM)dbackjon Wrote:Are we sure it's not Upper Iowa?(02-15-2022 07:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
Just misdirection - them and ENMU are coming as a package
It can't be Upper Iowa. They don't have enough students to meet his enrollment criteria for D1.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - DoubleRSU - 02-15-2022 11:55 PM
Obviously just a ploy from the President to get some money from Bill Gates or Ted Dibiase, so they can go to D1
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - DavidSt - 02-16-2022 08:36 AM
(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
If the other schools around them started to move up leaving them behind? Do they stay in D2 with nobody to play football with or move to the WAC? His comments are wrong about student athletes will be different between the Power 5 all the way down to junior colleges. All student athletes are all treated the same as employees of the schools at all levels. The President of West Texas A&M is fooling himself, and should be fired for being so stupid. His AD recognized the implications of the student athlete be employees now, the NIL and other things.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - Cruhawk - 02-16-2022 08:48 AM
(02-16-2022 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
If the other schools around them started to move up leaving them behind? Do they stay in D2 with nobody to play football with or move to the WAC? His comments are wrong about student athletes will be different between the Power 5 all the way down to junior colleges. All student athletes are all treated the same as employees of the schools at all levels. The President of West Texas A&M is fooling himself, and should be fired for being so stupid. His AD recognized the implications of the student athlete be employees now, the NIL and other things.
If more LSC schools start moving up I think that will force their hand one way or another. Good news is that both the WAC and the Southland should be able to accommodate them.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - CenterSquarEd - 02-16-2022 09:05 AM
(02-16-2022 08:48 AM)Cruhawk Wrote:(02-16-2022 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
If the other schools around them started to move up leaving them behind? Do they stay in D2 with nobody to play football with or move to the WAC? His comments are wrong about student athletes will be different between the Power 5 all the way down to junior colleges. All student athletes are all treated the same as employees of the schools at all levels. The President of West Texas A&M is fooling himself, and should be fired for being so stupid. His AD recognized the implications of the student athlete be employees now, the NIL and other things.
If more LSC schools start moving up I think that will force their hand one way or another. Good news is that both the WAC and the Southland should be able to accommodate them.
The Lone Star Conference has 18 members. They did just recently take in 3 football affiliates to get their football membership up to 11. They can lose a few without losing West Texas A&M.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - johnbragg - 02-16-2022 09:34 AM
(02-16-2022 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
If the other schools around them started to move up leaving them behind? Do they stay in D2 with nobody to play football with or move to the WAC? His comments are wrong about student athletes will be different between the Power 5 all the way down to junior colleges. All student athletes are all treated the same as employees of the schools at all levels. The President of West Texas A&M is fooling himself, and should be fired for being so stupid. His AD recognized the implications of the student athlete be employees now, the NIL and other things.
Or maybe he knows what he's talking about, and you're the one with the uninformed perspective?
There are obvious economic differences between the Power 5 model and the Division II model. The argument for athletes-as-employees is based on the fact that the Power 5 and the NCAA tournament generate significant revenue. Without that revenue, the argument for athletes-as-employees falls apart. Division II football or basketball players are no more entitled to be paid as employess any more than Division I marching band members are.
You can argue about where to draw the boundary line between sports factories like Alabama and Ohio State and Notre Dame and Georgetown and amateur college athletics. But Division II is definitely on the "amateur college athletics" side of that line.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - OscarWildeCat - 02-16-2022 09:41 AM
(02-16-2022 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
If the other schools around them started to move up leaving them behind? Do they stay in D2 with nobody to play football with or move to the WAC? His comments are wrong about student athletes will be different between the Power 5 all the way down to junior colleges. All student athletes are all treated the same as employees of the schools at all levels. The President of West Texas A&M is fooling himself, and should be fired for being so stupid. His AD recognized the implications of the student athlete be employees now, the NIL and other things.
You aren’t really trying to suggest the NIL will affect D2 and P5 schools in the same way, are you? I thought his comment on this subject was very much in target. He doesn’t say the NIL doesn’t apply to small schools. Rather that the value of a D2 athlete is vastly different than that of a P5 star.
“On some campuses, student-athletes are students. Their name, image and likeness (NIL) have little market value. On the other hand, Alabama quarterback Bryce Young will earn over $1 million NIL income, according to Coach Nick Saban. He could make a lot more in the NFL. This form of commercial deification is unknown to 99.99% of intercollegiate athletes.”
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - AZcats - 02-16-2022 10:14 AM
(02-16-2022 08:36 AM)DavidSt Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
If the other schools around them started to move up leaving them behind? Do they stay in D2 with nobody to play football with or move to the WAC? His comments are wrong about student athletes will be different between the Power 5 all the way down to junior colleges. All student athletes are all treated the same as employees of the schools at all levels. The President of West Texas A&M is fooling himself, and should be fired for being so stupid. His AD recognized the implications of the student athlete be employees now, the NIL and other things.
Wow. David knows more about West Texas A&M than the school's president. Such a bloody joke.
RE: What is the future of the Southland Conference? - dbackjon - 02-16-2022 11:24 AM
(02-15-2022 08:36 PM)AZcats Wrote:(02-15-2022 07:57 PM)dbackjon Wrote:(02-15-2022 07:29 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:(02-15-2022 05:13 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: We can remove West Texas A&M from joining the Southland based on the comments from the President
https://walterwendler.com/2022/02/twenty-first-century-intercollegiate-athletics/
so do we deduct 100 pts from David for his realignment knowledge. WTMAU was his go to school for D-I and the WAC.
Just misdirection - them and ENMU are coming as a package
For months David kept saying how wrong Matt Brown was but never said why. Now he'll blame someone else and come up with a different story. Would it be a package with ENMU or WNMU; he's listed both as D1 candidates.
ENMU is 2 hours from WTAMU. WNMU is 6 hours from ENMU
NMHU is much closer to Portales - only 3 hours!