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MAC basketball 2021 ... - cleveland - 01-09-2021 10:53 PM

With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - cleveland - 01-12-2021 08:42 PM

(01-09-2021 10:53 PM)cleveland Wrote:  With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.


As the season wears on it's pretty clear this is Toledo's league and everybody else is just swimming in it. Schedule is tailor-made too, with just one game each vs. Ohio (already won) and Buffalo, the last 2 weeks of the season. At this point, even in a 20-game MAC season, tough seeing the Rockets lose more than two games ... maybe.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - UofToledoFans - 01-13-2021 09:39 AM

(01-12-2021 08:42 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(01-09-2021 10:53 PM)cleveland Wrote:  With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.


As the season wears on it's pretty clear this is Toledo's league and everybody else is just swimming in it. Schedule is tailor-made too, with just one game each vs. Ohio (already won) and Buffalo, the last 2 weeks of the season. At this point, even in a 20-game MAC season, tough seeing the Rockets lose more than two games ... maybe.
Even dominant UB teams have lost 2. I'd say going 16-4 would suffice as dominant from my perspective. 18-2 would exceed all expectations.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - BullBoy - 01-13-2021 12:36 PM

(01-13-2021 09:39 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 08:42 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(01-09-2021 10:53 PM)cleveland Wrote:  With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.


As the season wears on it's pretty clear this is Toledo's league and everybody else is just swimming in it. Schedule is tailor-made too, with just one game each vs. Ohio (already won) and Buffalo, the last 2 weeks of the season. At this point, even in a 20-game MAC season, tough seeing the Rockets lose more than two games ... maybe.
Even dominant UB teams have lost 2. I'd say going 16-4 would suffice as dominant from my perspective. 18-2 would exceed all expectations.

It's too bad this Toledo team did not have a full non-conference season with multiple high major games. The wins at West Virginia and Syracuse that season for Buffalo are what led them to the national recognition.

SIDE NOTE: I can't wait for the offensive explosion when Buffalo and Toledo play this year!


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - UofToledoFans - 01-13-2021 01:18 PM

(01-13-2021 12:36 PM)BullBoy Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:39 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 08:42 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(01-09-2021 10:53 PM)cleveland Wrote:  With roughly 4-games on the MAC ledger around the league here are a few GENERAL OBSERVATIONs ...

The teams that have played the most overall games (Toledo, BG) have the best records: I think this shows there is value in non-conference games, considering Toledo has had time to completely change its team from inside dominant to perimeter dominant ... BG has had time to find a blend that works well with Turner.

The traditional powers (basically East teams - Buffalo, Akron, Kent) look to be themselves, but just have not hit a level of consistency. Late January-February could be interesting for one or all of those teams.

Ohio looks to have the most balanced (inside/out) team but its youth is showing, bigtime. Will they grow out of it.

Still a bit of an unknown (as usual) are Ball State and Eastern Michigan. One or both could rise or fall as the season wears on.

Not much to be said for Miami, NIU, CMU ...

WMU seems to have pieces ... but.


As the season wears on it's pretty clear this is Toledo's league and everybody else is just swimming in it. Schedule is tailor-made too, with just one game each vs. Ohio (already won) and Buffalo, the last 2 weeks of the season. At this point, even in a 20-game MAC season, tough seeing the Rockets lose more than two games ... maybe.
Even dominant UB teams have lost 2. I'd say going 16-4 would suffice as dominant from my perspective. 18-2 would exceed all expectations.

It's too bad this Toledo team did not have a full non-conference season with multiple high major games. The wins at West Virginia and Syracuse that season for Buffalo are what led them to the national recognition.

SIDE NOTE: I can't wait for the offensive explosion when Buffalo and Toledo play this year!

I don't recall many scheduled games for the 2021 season before last March. I think we did well grabbing Xavier, and filling in to play Michigan. Cleveland State and Marshall also appear to be good wins. Toledo is one of only a few to have played 14 games thus far. That will bode well in a couple months.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - Basketball Jones - 01-13-2021 02:36 PM

Besides their balanced scoring (7 players averaging between 6-16pg.) Toledo success is being driven by a single game focus which has resulted in their winning 5 of 6 leagues games by double digits. That focus is partly the result of Coach Kowalczyk stressing to his players the importance of the regular season, because with COVID, there is no guarantee that there will be post season tournament in Cleveland this year to reward the automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - pono - 01-14-2021 04:58 AM

Will be interesting to see how teams scheme Toledo as the season wears on. Are there adjustments MAC coaches will make to find weaknesses in Toledo's game? Can Toledo get over the hump known as Buffalo that has been their primary MAC problem the past 5 or 6 years.

Also worth noting that Toledo is on an 8 game winning streak with just 9 players. So far this season the Rockets have had 1 guy opt out/COVID, 1 declared only practice eligible by the NCAA, 1 (Edu) lost for the season to a meniscus injury, and a fourth-the backup pg-lost midseason and possibly for the year to a broken leg. UT is going w a frontcourt that is composed of a 6-6 small forward, a 6-7 kid who was playing D2 last year, and a (maybe) 6-8 rs freshman who had barely played basketball the previous 2 years due to a recurring foot problem, along with 4 guards. They do 2 have legit bigs on the bench as the 8th and 9th guys but the team has been better not playing them and going very small.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - Siborg - 01-16-2021 02:04 PM

BG @ UB. Good win by BG but neither team could hit a shot. That game was there for the taking if either team could have made some shots. The announcers kept talking about UB missing shots but BG shot worse than them. The big difference was rebounding. BG was able to get a bunch of 2nd chance points.

BG UB
FG% .310 .348
3FG% .227 .222
FT% .730 .654
RB 56 45
TO 12 14
STL 5 5


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - cleveland - 01-16-2021 09:03 PM

(01-16-2021 02:04 PM)Siborg Wrote:  BG @ UB. Good win by BG but neither team could hit a shot. That game was there for the taking if either team could have made some shots. The announcers kept talking about UB missing shots but BG shot worse than them. The big difference was rebounding. BG was able to get a bunch of 2nd chance points.

BG UB
FG% .310 .348
3FG% .227 .222
FT% .730 .654
RB 56 45
TO 12 14
STL 5 5

Like many teams in the MAC, both BG/UB teams have major plusses and serious minuses. Ditto for UT, BSU, Akron, Kent, OU among the current contenders, all within a game of each other. The question is, which teams can exploit their plusses and cover up their minuses best.

While I'm no Keno Davis fan, keep an eye on CMU. They are better than all the other teams (Miami, EMU, WMU, NIU) around them in the standings and have enough firepower to upset more than a few teams above them on a given night. They also have a couple of new players that seem to be getting their game legs underneath them.

Not a team I would want to play the last two weeks of the season if the No. 8 MAC Tournament spot is on the line.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - pono - 01-17-2021 12:14 AM

Some pretty interesting MAC transfers over the past week or so. Buffalo flipped guards as highly rated freshman chance robinson left school. not sure why, but with rondo segu possibly running the show for 3 more years there and robinson being a smaller guard too it wasn't an ideal situation for him to come up in. talented kid, maybe he'll find his game and home elsewhere. then, buffalo got an interesting transfer in. maceo jack transfers in from GW. senior, who may be eligible to play 2nd semester this year and again next year. bigger older wing who is mostly a 3 point shooter and started for 2 years in the A10. also the son of highly successful and celebrated longtime local icon the UB women's coach felisha legette jack (living legend stuff, was elected to the syracuse basketball hall of fame in 1998, won 4 HS state titles, starred at syracuse u, didn't play pro ball because of injury and went into coaching, asst at BC and syracuse, hc at indiana 6 years but got fired and went to buffalo about 9 years ago and has had great teams almost every year since) I think maceo didn't want to be in his mom's shadow playing at UB or st bona or syracuse or somewhere like that but eventually saw a window to have a late career reunion in buffalo. if he can play now ??? he may give buffalo something they haven't regularly had-outside shooting. if he can also provide leadership as a senior who has gone through the grind of A10 seasons, he could be a big addition.

kent saw the explosive and streaky juco scorer tekorian smith quickly cut out. smith was not in the mix in a pretty competitive kent backcourt. however, they got a transfer in a few days ago of sincere carry, one of the best pgs in the A10 the previous 2 seasons who had a strange falling out in duquense recently.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - cleveland - 01-17-2021 12:38 AM

(01-17-2021 12:14 AM)pono Wrote:  Some pretty interesting MAC transfers over the past week or so. Buffalo flipped guards as highly rated freshman chance robinson left school. not sure why, but with rondo segu possibly running the show for 3 more years there and robinson being a smaller guard too it wasn't an ideal situation for him to come up in. talented kid, maybe he'll find his game and home elsewhere. then, buffalo got an interesting transfer in. maceo jack transfers in from GW. senior, who may be eligible to play 2nd semester this year and again next year. bigger older wing who is mostly a 3 point shooter and started for 2 years in the A10. also the son of highly successful and celebrated longtime local icon the UB women's coach felisha legette jack (living legend stuff, was elected to the syracuse basketball hall of fame in 1998, won 4 HS state titles, starred at syracuse u, didn't play pro ball because of injury and went into coaching, asst at BC and syracuse, hc at indiana 6 years but got fired and went to buffalo about 9 years ago and has had great teams almost every year since) I think maceo didn't want to be in his mom's shadow playing at UB or st bona or syracuse or somewhere like that but eventually saw a window to have a late career reunion in buffalo. if he can play now ??? he may give buffalo something they haven't regularly had-outside shooting. if he can also provide leadership as a senior who has gone through the grind of A10 seasons, he could be a big addition.

kent saw the explosive and streaky juco scorer tekorian smith quickly cut out. smith was not in the mix in a pretty competitive kent backcourt. however, they got a transfer in a few days ago of sincere carry, one of the best pgs in the A10 the previous 2 seasons who had a strange falling out in duquense recently.

UB's Robinson got into some bigtime serious legal trouble back home in Louisiana ... Not sure if Jack can play 2nd semester or not ... Smith obviously never found a role at Kent, other JC shooter recruit barely plays as well ... Unclear what went down at Duquesne as Dambrot's three starting guards all left in the same week (one came back) ... Duquesne guard went to HS close to Kent and supposedly his girlfriend goes to Kent as well.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - Siborg - 01-17-2021 01:00 AM

BG lost Davin Ziegler a few weeks ago. With Freshman Kaden Metheny and JoJo Fulcher getting more and more minutes I guess he saw the writing on the wall. Very athletic 6.3 SO guard but a bit raw.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - SUisBigEast4ever - 01-19-2021 07:10 PM

Let's just sum up MAC basketball.

Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul.Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul. Foul.

Such a fun league to watch. Not.

UB was 308th (out of 340) in the nation in fouls per game (20.8) and another 24 called tonight probably puts them around 320th.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - UofToledoFans - 01-19-2021 09:25 PM

If I search "foul" on this board, it has to be 50-50 UB fans vs. the rest of the league. You're kind of the only team with a post presence in the conference so I can't say I'm surprised. Also if you aren't an assist laden team, 1 on 1's lead to more fouls.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - cleveland - 01-19-2021 10:55 PM

(01-19-2021 09:25 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  If I search "foul" on this board, it has to be 50-50 UB fans vs. the rest of the league. You're kind of the only team with a post presence in the conference so I can't say I'm surprised. Also if you aren't an assist laden team, 1 on 1's lead to more fouls.

I have no dog in this fight, however, in my mind a 'post presence' like Mballa and Bertram should lead to more fouls by the opposition, even when Mballa is also super aggressive. Haven't looked at the box score but would guess the peerimeter guys are the ones getting the fouls ... just checked; Segu 3 Graves 4 Hardnett 5 (Mballa/Bertram 3 each).

For Kent gds: Santiago 3, Nuga 0, Jacobs 1. Kent bigs (Pippen/Hamilton 4/3.

Backcourt fouls were the difference, not 'post presence' by either team.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - cleveland - 01-19-2021 11:16 PM

(01-19-2021 10:55 PM)cleveland Wrote:  
(01-19-2021 09:25 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  If I search "foul" on this board, it has to be 50-50 UB fans vs. the rest of the league. You're kind of the only team with a post presence in the conference so I can't say I'm surprised. Also if you aren't an assist laden team, 1 on 1's lead to more fouls.

I have no dog in this fight, however, in my mind a 'post presence' like Mballa and Bertram should lead to more fouls by the opposition, even when Mballa is also super aggressive. Haven't looked at the box score but would guess the peerimeter guys are the ones getting the fouls ... just checked; Segu 3 Graves 4 Hardnett 5 (Mballa/Bertram 3 each).

For Kent gds: Santiago 3, Nuga 0, Jacobs 1. Kent bigs (Pippen/Hamilton 4/3.

Backcourt fouls were the difference, not 'post presence' by either team.

BACK TO THE LEAGUE: ... Toledo very much large and in charge ... Akron looks to have the best overall defense in the league. ... BG/UB/Kent sit in a cluster although BG seems to be a tick better than the other 2 ... Ball State/Ohio/Miami?? are all a mystery but with time to figure it out.

Still say overall schedule heavily favors the Rockets w/ 2 BG games likely the only toss-ups left before Buffalo last 2 wks of the season. Even if Bulls have 'A-Game' by then, might not matter.

Akron's 'D' must still travel to Toledo, Kent, Buff and Ohio ...

Only tough rd game left for Buff is @ Ohio... indeed, 8 of next 10 UB games are vs. former MAC West teams w/2 home games vs. Miami and Ohio. Soooo, Bulls can get well quick as 8-2 is probable and 10-0 definitely possible.

Finally Toledo/BG have played the most MAC games to date, which means while others will be making up games down the stretch - perhaps 3 in a week - the Rockets/Falcons will be resting.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - DICK - 01-20-2021 10:26 PM

We will see if the Miami Whammy messes with BG again tomorrow night. Historically Miami has ruined many strong BG teams seasons. Even in the last two season when Miami has been at or near the bottom of the league and BG at or near the top. Miami has won 3 of the 4 games, and the three wins were by 13,14, and 18 and the one loss by 2.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - pono - 01-21-2021 01:48 AM

so I'd rank the league like this

Toledo-most consistent, best offense
Akron-best MAC wins, most depth
BG-solid but the double digit losses starting to make you wonder a bit
Kent-no bad losses, good balance, a relatively healthy consistent Danny Pippin is crucial
Buffalo-right there talent wise but not enough shooting and the defense has lost its edge since oats left
Ohio-Preston's ability to control a game makes them a favorite in the mac tourney but with the NCAA bid likely to go to the reg season champ that may lose relevance
Ball St-veteran team that will compete but hasn't really found an identity
Miami-sneaky and showing the ability to be better than the sum of their parts
CMU-finding their identity lately, Broadway should be in the conversation for all-MAC
NIU-terrible start but got hot for a minute after the coaching change, roster isn't bad
EMU-guard play isn't bad but lack of size makes the that zone less imposing
WMU-decent start but fading, guard play too inconsistent to be a factor


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - DICK - 01-21-2021 12:52 PM

(01-21-2021 01:48 AM)pono Wrote:  so I'd rank the league like this

Toledo-most consistent, best offense
Akron-best MAC wins, most depth
BG-solid but the double digit losses starting to make you wonder a bit
Kent-no bad losses, good balance, a relatively healthy consistent Danny Pippin is crucial
Buffalo-right there talent wise but not enough shooting and the defense has lost its edge since oats left
Ohio-Preston's ability to control a game makes them a favorite in the mac tourney but with the NCAA bid likely to go to the reg season champ that may lose relevance
Ball St-veteran team that will compete but hasn't really found an identity
Miami-sneaky and showing the ability to be better than the sum of their parts
CMU-finding their identity lately, Broadway should be in the conversation for all-MAC
NIU-terrible start but got hot for a minute after the coaching change, roster isn't bad
EMU-guard play isn't bad but lack of size makes the that zone less imposing
WMU-decent start but fading, guard play too inconsistent to be a factor

I would say pono has nailed it. However, experience says teams either get better or worse, seldom do they stay right at that level all year long. So this will likely change.


RE: MAC basketball 2021 ... - kreed5120 - 01-21-2021 01:01 PM

(01-21-2021 01:48 AM)pono Wrote:  so I'd rank the league like this

Toledo-most consistent, best offense
Akron-best MAC wins, most depth
BG-solid but the double digit losses starting to make you wonder a bit
Kent-no bad losses, good balance, a relatively healthy consistent Danny Pippin is crucial
Buffalo-right there talent wise but not enough shooting and the defense has lost its edge since oats left
Ohio-Preston's ability to control a game makes them a favorite in the mac tourney but with the NCAA bid likely to go to the reg season champ that may lose relevance
Ball St-veteran team that will compete but hasn't really found an identity
Miami-sneaky and showing the ability to be better than the sum of their parts
CMU-finding their identity lately, Broadway should be in the conversation for all-MAC
NIU-terrible start but got hot for a minute after the coaching change, roster isn't bad
EMU-guard play isn't bad but lack of size makes the that zone less imposing
WMU-decent start but fading, guard play too inconsistent to be a factor

Akron has the best wins, but also the worst losses. I'm still trying to get a feel for where they stack up. They obviously can play at a high level, but it's to be seen if they can do it consistently.