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RE: UCF Game - doss2 - 12-23-2020 08:21 AM
(12-23-2020 12:42 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:28 PM)uchoops Wrote: 2-5 record...last time we started this bad ...1985
Ouch!
Going all the way back to the Tony Yates days...
That team did go to the NIT at least.
8 wins will be a stretch.
RE: UCF Game - Bear Catlett - 12-23-2020 09:07 AM
There is hope for this team.
They're garbage right now, but the pieces are there to be a decent team if they can get it turned around.
I'll say it again, Cumberland and Scott weren't worth a pile of crap at the beginning of the season last year too.
RE: UCF Game - dsquare - 12-23-2020 09:31 AM
(12-23-2020 08:07 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: I think they actually looked better than they have in the previous games. It's really hurting that they get nothing from Vogt. He can be in for the tipoff but then needs to be relegated to the bench as a sub until he figures it out.
Turnovers are also killing UC.
The problem with that game last night down the stretch was their big kid fouled out and they went with basically an all guard lineup when their post guy fouled out. Brannen was saying in the post game they had to go small if they were going to have any chance of catching up. The 3 points in the first 6 minutes of the half doomed them. Good run to catchup, but you need a full 40 minutes. 14 turnovers in the first half and we're tied, 5 in the second half and we lose by 5. Mahan's shooting from deep in the second half was the difference.
RE: UCF Game - Bruce Monnin - 12-23-2020 10:22 AM
We are just sacrificing basketball games to the sports gods right now in return for one more win for the football team.
RE: UCF Game - Former Lurker - 12-23-2020 10:29 AM
(12-22-2020 06:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:47 PM)Banter Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:44 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote: The results are unacceptable. Unless they start winning games, John is gone.
We don’t have four years to see if a coach can get his guys and have a good season.
Not in today’s college sports landscape where every player and recruit are free agents.
This isn’t Mick in the Big East, this is the freaking AAC. Two bid league maybe three if they are lucky.
No way they fire him until after year 3 at the earliest.
Yeah...the honestly couldn't afford his buyout this year anyways. It's bootstraps budget in Lindner right now.
I'm more of the school that one can't afford not to make a change if the collapse continues. ALL Cincinnati sports attendance (and TV ratings and merchandise sales) has always been VERY performance-sensitive. It is a town that supports winners only. The financial picture of the AD looks vastly different depending on whether the arena is filled with full-price spectators, or half-full with ticket discounting to goose attendance.
Having said that, I do think he'll get one more year. Covid is the all-purpose excuse for ADs to save on buyouts this year.
RE: UCF Game - RuckleSt - 12-23-2020 10:31 AM
My Takes from Game
The Bad
Fouling - still trying to defend with our hands instead of with our feet
Ivanauskus - can't shoot, can't rebound, can't defend, seems lost on offense, this dude shouldn't see the court again this year. Just a total disaster.
Turnovers - extra passes that don't need to be made, charges, sloppy ball handling
Vogt - can't get open, doesn't rebound outside of his position, was basically shut down by a group of players that were 4-5 inches shorter than him
Eason - 5 fouls in ten minutes, he is already our best big man, he has to play smarter than that
The Good
Harvey - seems to be turning a corner, his handles still need some work though
Sanders - still making Freshmen mistakes, but he is showing flashes of brilliance
4 guard lineup with Eason or Davenport - can we play this the rest of the year?
RE: UCF Game - CliftonAve - 12-23-2020 10:36 AM
See my prior post about JB’s 6 year/$9M contract being 75% guaranteed. At three years UC would be paying about $2.25M for him to walk away. Would be more likely four years, which we would owe $750K.
RE: UCF Game - rath v2.0 - 12-23-2020 10:58 AM
(12-23-2020 10:29 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:47 PM)Banter Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:44 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote: The results are unacceptable. Unless they start winning games, John is gone.
We don’t have four years to see if a coach can get his guys and have a good season.
Not in today’s college sports landscape where every player and recruit are free agents.
This isn’t Mick in the Big East, this is the freaking AAC. Two bid league maybe three if they are lucky.
No way they fire him until after year 3 at the earliest.
Yeah...the honestly couldn't afford his buyout this year anyways. It's bootstraps budget in Lindner right now.
I'm more of the school that one can't afford not to make a change if the collapse continues. ALL Cincinnati sports attendance (and TV ratings and merchandise sales) has always been VERY performance-sensitive. It is a town that supports winners only. The financial picture of the AD looks vastly different depending on whether the arena is filled with full-price spectators, or half-full with ticket discounting to goose attendance.
Having said that, I do think he'll get one more year. Covid is the all-purpose excuse for ADs to save on buyouts this year.
No matter how bad this gets, he’s not getting canned anytime soon based upon play on the court. If he is shown the door it will be after next year and then only due to a lack of people interested in re-upping seats in that brand new area with lots of debt service. As unpleasant as this team is to watch for long stretches, can you imagine having to drop $50-75 a seat plus your contribution for the right to watch some of this crud? Brutal.
The minute lost revenue exceeds the amount he is owed on Bohn’s deal, he gawn.
When Cunningham got rid of the Monster Factory and basically escorted out S&C guru to UCONN, the writing was on the wall as to which sports program at UC would be supported and which one was being managed to be revenue neutral.
RE: UCF Game - bearcatmark - 12-23-2020 11:06 AM
To me these are the parts of UC's play that if fixed would quickly change the trajectory of the season.
1. Can their bigs ever figure out how to stay out of foul trouble? This has been their biggest defensive issue and it is the one I'm least sure we can correct as part of it is our guards/wings put them in bad positions by allowing too much penetration and too many back cuts. Combine that with having a freshman figuring things out and two unathletic bigs and you pick up some fouls. In short, the fouling problem is a problem of having unathletic bigs, having a raw athletic big and the guards doing a poor job stopping penetration/cuts.
2. Can they cut down the turnovers? I think this will happen as they get better, as Saunders gets more experience and as they adjust their strategy by putting the ball in DeJulius' hands more often. DeJulius has basically done everything right on offense except make outside shots. He's the most reliable guy with the ball and the only guy who really has created for others.
3. Can they start making outside shots? 25% as a team from 3 isn't cutting it. If they were shooting a pedestrian 31-33% they probably have a couple more wins. Our starting backcourt of DeJulius and Adams-Woods are both shooting under 20% from three despite combining for nearly 50 three point attempts. That's brutal. MAW shot 37% last year and he's mostly taking the same kind of open shots. You have to believe that gets better. DeJulius shot 36% on 83 attempts last season at Michigan. He's taking some tough shots though this year. But you'd have to believe he will shoot over 30%. These guys hitting a reasonable amount of their 3s would be huge.
4. Will they stop forcing Keith to create offense? He's not built for it. He doesn't pass well. A 13.2% assist rate for a guy who is top 30 in the country in usage rate is just brutal. A guy with the ball in his hands that often and not creating anything for his teammates kills you. He also isn't the kind of player who can create a high percentage shot unless he gets that first step. Keith should be a guy who plays with in the flow, tries to attack the rim and when he doesn't get the step moves the ball so the offense can keep going. He should be getting it in transition and when the defense is moving. You can't iso him and run effective offense. He settles for too many difficult contested 2s, doesn't shoot 3s particularly well and doesn't create for others. He's built to be a 2nd or 3rd option, not your first.
RE: UCF Game - RuckleSt - 12-23-2020 11:10 AM
(12-23-2020 11:06 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: To me these are the parts of UC's play that if fixed would quickly change the trajectory of the season.
1. Can their bigs ever figure out how to stay out of foul trouble? This has been their biggest defensive issue and it is the one I'm least sure we can correct as part of it is our guards/wings put them in bad positions by allowing too much penetration and too many back cuts. Combine that with having a freshman figuring things out and two unathletic bigs and you pick up some fouls. In short, the fouling problem is a problem of having unathletic bigs, having a raw athletic big and the guards doing a poor job stopping penetration/cuts.
2. Can they cut down the turnovers? I think this will happen as they get better, as Saunders gets more experience and as they adjust their strategy by putting the ball in DeJulius' hands more often. DeJulius has basically done everything right on offense except make outside shots. He's the most reliable guy with the ball and the only guy who really has created for others.
3. Can they start making outside shots? 25% as a team from 3 isn't cutting it. If they were shooting a pedestrian 31-33% they probably have a couple more wins. Our starting backcourt of DeJulius and Adams-Woods are both shooting under 20% from three despite combining for nearly 50 three point attempts. That's brutal. MAW shot 37% last year and he's mostly taking the same kind of open shots. You have to believe that gets better. DeJulius shot 36% on 83 attempts last season at Michigan. He's taking some tough shots though this year. But you'd have to believe he will shoot over 30%. These guys hitting a reasonable amount of their 3s would be huge.
4. Will they stop forcing Keith to create offense? He's not built for it. He doesn't pass well. A 13.2% assist rate for a guy who is top 30 in the country in usage rate is just brutal. A guy with the ball in his hands that often and not creating anything for his teammates kills you. He also isn't the kind of player who can create a high percentage shot unless he gets that first step. Keith should be a guy who plays with in the flow, tries to attack the rim and when he doesn't get the step moves the ball so the offense can keep going. He should be getting it in transition and when the defense is moving. You can't iso him and run effective offense. He settles for too many difficult contested 2s, doesn't shoot 3s particularly well and doesn't create for others. He's built to be a 2nd or 3rd option, not your first.
Yep, try running the offense thru DD and let him create shots for his teammates. Williams playing hero ball, or forcing it inside to Vogt clearly isn't working.
RE: UCF Game - bearcatmark - 12-23-2020 11:18 AM
For Comparison...Jarron last year had a similar usage rate, but his assist rate was 31.5%. The prior year Jarron had a similar usage rate and is assist rate was 25.7%. Even SK who wasn't a prolific passer had an assist rate of 18.5%, which isn't necessarily ideal, but SK could get a bucket in so many different ways. Those are the comps for guys UC has played through at a similar rate since Cronin got here. Nobody else is in the ballpark for usage rate. Keith isn't the caliber player that can handle it.
RE: UCF Game - dsquare - 12-23-2020 01:10 PM
#3 is the most critical in my mind. It's awful hard to get things going inside if you do not need to be guarded on the outside. The announcers in the past several games have been pointing out the doubles down low and general lane clogging that goes on with the bad perimeter attack. Although the general sloppiness of the games in terms of turnovers and fouls make it look like a complete debacle, the reality is we're in games till the end and are not getting blown out. I believe the turnovers will definitely improve, but the fouling is a tough one to call. Some of it is bad technique and to many guys with way to little experience, but some of it is also frustration both offensively and in general from losing. Time will tell. You got to make shots at the end of the day to get defensive respect.
One positive thing lately in the defeats is we're getting to the ft line which is typically an indication the offense is functioning better. Have to start somewhere.
RE: UCF Game - dsquare - 12-23-2020 01:29 PM
I'm surprised nobody has brought anything up on Nysier Brooks so far unless i missed it:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4066485/nysier-brooks
Pretty similar to his year's here. Foul trouble against Pitt in that loss, minimal stats in 30 minutes in the win against Purdue.
RE: UCF Game - SeniorBearcat - 12-23-2020 01:50 PM
Not sure if it is sad or not but I completely missed this game...never even watched a play or highlight. I turned off the Georgia BB game in disgust and watched football only on Saturday. I'll watch some basketball games because I love the Bearcats but
to this start.
RE: UCF Game - Banter - 12-23-2020 01:55 PM
(12-23-2020 01:29 PM)dsquare Wrote: I'm surprised nobody has brought anything up on Nysier Brooks so far unless i missed it:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4066485/nysier-brooks
Pretty similar to his year's here. Foul trouble against Pitt in that loss, minimal stats in 30 minutes in the win against Purdue.
I don't think there is any reason to talk about Brooks. Had he stayed at UC he would have graduated last season with Scott and Cumberland. He is only playing this year because he transferred.
RE: UCF Game - Billy_Bearcat - 12-23-2020 01:59 PM
(12-23-2020 10:58 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:(12-23-2020 10:29 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:47 PM)Banter Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:44 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote: The results are unacceptable. Unless they start winning games, John is gone.
We don’t have four years to see if a coach can get his guys and have a good season.
Not in today’s college sports landscape where every player and recruit are free agents.
This isn’t Mick in the Big East, this is the freaking AAC. Two bid league maybe three if they are lucky.
No way they fire him until after year 3 at the earliest.
Yeah...the honestly couldn't afford his buyout this year anyways. It's bootstraps budget in Lindner right now.
I'm more of the school that one can't afford not to make a change if the collapse continues. ALL Cincinnati sports attendance (and TV ratings and merchandise sales) has always been VERY performance-sensitive. It is a town that supports winners only. The financial picture of the AD looks vastly different depending on whether the arena is filled with full-price spectators, or half-full with ticket discounting to goose attendance.
Having said that, I do think he'll get one more year. Covid is the all-purpose excuse for ADs to save on buyouts this year.
No matter how bad this gets, he’s not getting canned anytime soon based upon play on the court. If he is shown the door it will be after next year and then only due to a lack of people interested in re-upping seats in that brand new area with lots of debt service. As unpleasant as this team is to watch for long stretches, can you imagine having to drop $50-75 a seat plus your contribution for the right to watch some of this crud? Brutal.
The minute lost revenue exceeds the amount he is owed on Bohn’s deal, he gawn.
When Cunningham got rid of the Monster Factory and basically escorted out S&C guru to UCONN, the writing was on the wall as to which sports program at UC would be supported and which one was being managed to be revenue neutral.
You are very wise
RE: UCF Game - UCBearcatlawjd2 - 12-23-2020 02:18 PM
(12-23-2020 10:29 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:50 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:47 PM)Banter Wrote:(12-22-2020 06:44 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote: The results are unacceptable. Unless they start winning games, John is gone.
We don’t have four years to see if a coach can get his guys and have a good season.
Not in today’s college sports landscape where every player and recruit are free agents.
This isn’t Mick in the Big East, this is the freaking AAC. Two bid league maybe three if they are lucky.
No way they fire him until after year 3 at the earliest.
Yeah...the honestly couldn't afford his buyout this year anyways. It's bootstraps budget in Lindner right now.
I'm more of the school that one can't afford not to make a change if the collapse continues. ALL Cincinnati sports attendance (and TV ratings and merchandise sales) has always been VERY performance-sensitive. It is a town that supports winners only. The financial picture of the AD looks vastly different depending on whether the arena is filled with full-price spectators, or half-full with ticket discounting to goose attendance.
Having said that, I do think he'll get one more year. Covid is the all-purpose excuse for ADs to save on buyouts this year.
Win about 10 plus league games and few in the conference tournament and he is safe unless there is other chaos we don’t no about. Single digit win totals am this year and he is in trouble. I would feel better if our great staff had at least one 2021 recruit to point to. Right now everything about the basketball program is unacceptable. On court performance, recruiting, and even how they market the program are all not up to Bearcat standards. You can have a bad season and the fans will forgive you if they knew help is coming soon and the young guys eventually are going to be really good. I don’t see either of those right now. 2021 has to be about the future of the program. Brannen needs to show us what players we can trust going forward to protect the programs winning legacy. I actually want to see less KW, RAP, and Vogt over the next few months.
RE: UCF Game - RuckleSt - 12-23-2020 02:19 PM
(12-23-2020 01:55 PM)Banter Wrote:(12-23-2020 01:29 PM)dsquare Wrote: I'm surprised nobody has brought anything up on Nysier Brooks so far unless i missed it:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4066485/nysier-brooks
Pretty similar to his year's here. Foul trouble against Pitt in that loss, minimal stats in 30 minutes in the win against Purdue.
I don't think there is any reason to talk about Brooks. Had he stayed at UC he would have graduated last season with Scott and Cumberland. He is only playing this year because he transferred.
I just looked thru the list of the guys that transferred recently, and surprisingly Nsoseme appears to be doing the best.
E. Nsoseme - 13.6 pts - 10.6 reb - 66% FG - 26.7 minutes a game
L. Johnson - 9.3 pts - 3.5 reb - 35% FG - 24.8 minutes a game
L. Hardnett - 4.2 pts - 3.7 reb - 73% FG - 17 minutes a game
N. Brooks - 6.3 pts - 7.0 reb - 44% FG - 26 minutes a game
T. Moore - 8 pts - 2.8 assist - 31% FG - 26 minutes a game
P. Toyambi - 7.8 pts - 6.6 reb - 57% FG - 16 minutes a game
RE: UCF Game - OKIcat - 12-23-2020 02:19 PM
(12-23-2020 01:50 PM)SeniorBearcat Wrote: Not sure if it is sad or not but I completely missed this game...never even watched a play or highlight. I turned off the Georgia BB game in disgust and watched football only on Saturday. I'll watch some basketball games because I love the Bearcats but
I'm kind of with you; we watched the Georgia game only during commercial breaks in the UC football game. Saved it on DVR but erased it without watching.
I did see most of the first half against UCF. I realize our Bearcats have lots of problems of their own but I thought the officiating was just ridiculous with 15 fouls on UC in the first half. Am I wrong on that? I know our guys do get out of position a lot right now but I thought the officials wanted to be the stars yesterday. I'm guessing the double technicals were more about what the officials heard than what they saw.
RE: UCF Game - rath v2.0 - 12-23-2020 02:22 PM
I don’t think there are reasons to talk about a lot of this. My early New Years resolution is that I’m not spending time mentally investing in UC basketball outside of games until it’s proven to be worth it or until there is something, anything to get excited about on the recruiting front.
Thank the Good Lord for UC football.