(05-09-2021 06:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 05:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 01:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 08:15 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  93, when I combine your tirade against TexasOwl for his red neck/yellow neck statements with your fear that a merit based system would result in a student body of whites and Asians, it seems to me you have a racial preference hierarchy, with blacks as the most deserving and whites at the bottom with Asians just a step above.

I have no such hierarchy. Which system, hierarchy or not, is more racist?

My "tirade"? You mean when I called out TexasOwl for the following statement that he made when it came to the number of Chinese students who have been matriculating at Rice?:

Quote:How about more red necks and less yellow necks.

So my calling him out for that statement is somehow a sign to you that I am racist? Really?

You don't find anything wrong with his statement... but the fact that I had a problem with it lets you know that I support a racial hierarchy? Do I have that right?

Am I in a Twilight Zone episode right now?

It is one, only one, of the clues that lead me to that thought. When he presented that statement, it was clear that you thought it racist against Asians in favor of whites.

What did you think about that statement, OO? Was it racist?

If so... why was it some clue to you about my nefarious race rankings?

If not... would you like me to explain to you why I found the statement to be racist and disappointing as hell to see on a Rice message board?

Quote:But when we discussed, albeit briefly, a meritocracy in college admissions, you made it clear that you thought that was racist against blacks and favoring whites and Asians.

Yes. Without affirmative action I think that in the current system elite universities would not admit many non-athlete BIPOC students if you went solely on SAT scores/AP classes/extra-curriculars. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) you agree with this belief.

Is the current college admissions system "racist" as you put it?

Here's MW: racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

. Do you not think the black race has an inherent superiority athletically? If not, what in your mind explains the imbalance in certain sports? And if one race or another can be superior in this field, where is your evidence that the races are exactly the same in every other field?

So going by the first MW definition that is listed... no... I don't think the current system is set up this way because of an overall belief in white/Asian superiority.

Quote:So, what exactly do you support? It is not color blindness, which is what I support.

I know. You have said that you support color blindness a lot. When it comes to college admissions you have acknowledged that your approach will lead to elite schools comprised of almost only well-off White/Asian students. That situation doesn't bother you because it was strictly "merit-based" (ignoring all the ways that the college admissions process is rigged towards rich families).

I have NOT said that. YOU have said that. Once again, you attribute your thoughts to me. But I think the goal of an elite school should be to admit the best students. That would entail more than just raw scores, but less than racial quotas.

I think colleges should be comprised of more than just well-off white/Asian kids (I know there are exceptions, BTW). I'm not sure a better way to get there than affirmative action-type programs. I don't think that means that I think BIPOC are "better" than white people, OO.

Quote:And I did not say that I found nothing wrong with his statement - that is an assumption on your part that you would like me to claim so you can further attack it. If you really want to know what I thought about his statement, you can ask me after you answer my question above.

What did you find wrong with the statement?

(05-09-2021 08:21 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 08:03 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 07:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 07:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have reached two conclusions:
1) There are people out there who adopt the viewpoint that everything is racist until proved otherwise (see Voddie Baucham video).
2) I don't care enough about what any of those people think to go to the trouble to prove anything to them.

Not sure if you are referring to this “yellow necks” discussion or not.

I wasn't specifically, but see my definition of racist in the intervening post. By that definition, i would say that the "yellow neck" comment certainly tended toward racist, and I find it objectionable.

Whether that opinion is affected in any way because my son's girlfriend/roommate/partner/whatever is a delightful Japanese lady is something that you may or may not care to form an opinion about, but whatever your opinion, I don't care.

I'm struggling to understand the relevance of your son's girlfriend TBH. Ummm... do you think I hate Japanese people because think affirmative action is a better system that what OO proposes? I don't understand.

As to the bolded... that's an excellent way to foster discussion. Perhaps you should put me on ignore.

Quote:The more you make race a primary determinant of ANYTHING, the more racist you are.

Yes... the old trope of the supporters of affirmative action are the real racists.

(05-09-2021 09:09 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It seems to me that you do an awful lot of restating positions expressed by others in ways that mean something different from what they said. Like you responses to this thread.

When?

(05-09-2021 09:32 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 08:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 08:52 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Can we talk some more about how condescending leftists are please?

Some people deserve condescension.

I'm not sure what part of this discussion regarding affirmative action has led you to behave like this.

I'd say it's more your entire body of work.

I think you need a nap, bro. You're super grumpy.

(05-09-2021 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  93, let me be very candid with you. I have little or no use for you or your opinions. I don't block you because 1) it's my policy never to block anyone, 2) my military training taught me that it is helpful to know what the enemy is thinking, and 3) occasionally you provide some comic relief.

Feel free to block me if you wish, I really don't care.

(05-09-2021 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 06:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 05:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 01:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 08:15 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  93, when I combine your tirade against TexasOwl for his red neck/yellow neck statements with your fear that a merit based system would result in a student body of whites and Asians, it seems to me you have a racial preference hierarchy, with blacks as the most deserving and whites at the bottom with Asians just a step above.

I have no such hierarchy. Which system, hierarchy or not, is more racist?

My "tirade"? You mean when I called out TexasOwl for the following statement that he made when it came to the number of Chinese students who have been matriculating at Rice?:

Quote:How about more red necks and less yellow necks.

So my calling him out for that statement is somehow a sign to you that I am racist? Really?

You don't find anything wrong with his statement... but the fact that I had a problem with it lets you know that I support a racial hierarchy? Do I have that right?

Am I in a Twilight Zone episode right now?

It is one, only one, of the clues that lead me to that thought. When he presented that statement, it was clear that you thought it racist against Asians in favor of whites.

What did you think about that statement, OO? Was it racist?

If so... why was it some clue to you about my nefarious race rankings?

If not... would you like me to explain to you why I found the statement to be racist and disappointing as hell to see on a Rice message board?

Quote:But when we discussed, albeit briefly, a meritocracy in college admissions, you made it clear that you thought that was racist against blacks and favoring whites and Asians.

Yes. Without affirmative action I think that in the current system elite universities would not admit many non-athlete BIPOC students if you went solely on SAT scores/AP classes/extra-curriculars. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) you agree with this belief.

Is the current college admissions system "racist" as you put it?

Here's MW: racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Do you not think the black race has an inherent superiority athletically? If not, what in your mind explains the imbalance in certain sports? And if one race or another can be superior in this field, where is your evidence that the races are exactly the same in every other field?

Sure... I think Kenyans have better distance-running "genes" than some, etc. What's your point? Do you believe that extends to different races having a better chance at academic success at elite institutions? I'm not aware of any data suggesting a genetic basis for that. Are you?

Quote:So going by the first MW definition that is listed... no... I don't think the current system is set up this way because of an overall belief in white/Asian superiority.

Quote:So, what exactly do you support? It is not color blindness, which is what I support.

I know. You have said that you support color blindness a lot. When it comes to college admissions you have acknowledged that your approach will lead to elite schools comprised of almost only well-off White/Asian students. That situation doesn't bother you because it was strictly "merit-based" (ignoring all the ways that the college admissions process is rigged towards rich families).

I have NOT said that. YOU have said that. Once again, you attribute your thoughts to me. But I think the goal of an elite school should be to admit the best students. That would entail more than just raw scores, but less than racial quotas.

I think colleges should be comprised of more than just well-off white/Asian kids (I know there are exceptions, BTW). I'm not sure a better way to get there than affirmative action-type programs. I don't think that means that I think BIPOC are "better" than white people, OO.

Quote:And I did not say that I found nothing wrong with his statement - that is an assumption on your part that you would like me to claim so you can further attack it. If you really want to know what I thought about his statement, you can ask me after you answer my question above.

What did you find wrong with the statement?

I thought he was trying to be cute, and came up with an inartful way of saying “Rice would be better off admitting more Texans and less Chinese”. Now, before you blow your stack and accuse me again of saying something I did not say, “Chinese” includes people who are citizens of either China and Texans includes people of all ethnicities, including Chinese-Americans.

Quote:I would also like to point out that “rednecks”, although commonly used by li liberals as a demeaning term toward whites, includes people of all races. Locally, we have several black people who drive pick ups and wear Stetsons, and I have been to several Mexican rodeos and barbecues that had plenty of cowboys there.

(05-09-2021 10:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:32 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 08:57 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Some people deserve condescension.

I'm not sure what part of this discussion regarding affirmative action has led you to behave like this.

I'd say it's more your entire body of work.

I think you need a nap, bro. You're super grumpy.

NOT condescending at all.

(05-09-2021 11:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm not on the side of this forum that regularly cries about the other side being condescending. Not to mention everything that led up to that comment from him.

(05-09-2021 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  93, let me be very candid with you. I have little or no use for you or your opinions. I don't block you because 1) it's my policy never to block anyone, 2) my military training taught me that it is helpful to know what the enemy is thinking, and 3) occasionally you provide some comic relief.

Feel free to block me if you wish, I really don't care.

(05-09-2021 12:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 11:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm not on the side of this forum that regularly cries about the other side being condescending. Not to mention everything that led up to that comment from him.

Thanks for reminding me why I think so little of you--as if I needed reminding.

(05-09-2021 12:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'll be candid with you also. When you say things like "I don't want to deal with the, "Oh, you are just saying that because your son's girlfriend is Asian," comments." and "Kamala Harris is the most reprehensible person on the planet" it speaks to your grasp on reality being somewhat tenuous.

(05-09-2021 11:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 06:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 05:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 01:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  My "tirade"? You mean when I called out TexasOwl for the following statement that he made when it came to the number of Chinese students who have been matriculating at Rice?:


So my calling him out for that statement is somehow a sign to you that I am racist? Really?

You don't find anything wrong with his statement... but the fact that I had a problem with it lets you know that I support a racial hierarchy? Do I have that right?

Am I in a Twilight Zone episode right now?

It is one, only one, of the clues that lead me to that thought. When he presented that statement, it was clear that you thought it racist against Asians in favor of whites.

What did you think about that statement, OO? Was it racist?

If so... why was it some clue to you about my nefarious race rankings?

If not... would you like me to explain to you why I found the statement to be racist and disappointing as hell to see on a Rice message board?

Quote:But when we discussed, albeit briefly, a meritocracy in college admissions, you made it clear that you thought that was racist against blacks and favoring whites and Asians.

Yes. Without affirmative action I think that in the current system elite universities would not admit many non-athlete BIPOC students if you went solely on SAT scores/AP classes/extra-curriculars. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) you agree with this belief.

Is the current college admissions system "racist" as you put it?

Here's MW: racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Do you not think the black race has an inherent superiority athletically? If not, what in your mind explains the imbalance in certain sports? And if one race or another can be superior in this field, where is your evidence that the races are exactly the same in every other field?

Sure... I think Kenyans have better distance-running "genes" than some, etc. What's your point? Do you believe that extends to different races having a better chance at academic success at elite institutions? I'm not aware of any data suggesting a genetic basis for that. Are you?

. Any data to that is dismissed by your side without reading or vetting, so my answer is I don’t know, but it stands to reason there could be differences other than foot speed or jumping.

Quote:So going by the first MW definition that is listed... no... I don't think the current system is set up this way because of an overall belief in white/Asian superiority.

Quote:So, what exactly do you support? It is not color blindness, which is what I support.

I know. You have said that you support color blindness a lot. When it comes to college admissions you have acknowledged that your approach will lead to elite schools comprised of almost only well-off White/Asian students. That situation doesn't bother you because it was strictly "merit-based" (ignoring all the ways that the college admissions process is rigged towards rich families).

I have NOT said that. YOU have said that. Once again, you attribute your thoughts to me. But I think the goal of an elite school should be to admit the best students. That would entail more than just raw scores, but less than racial quotas.

I think colleges should be comprised of more than just well-off white/Asian kids (I know there are exceptions, BTW). I'm not sure a better way to get there than affirmative action-type programs. I don't think that means that I think BIPOC are "better" than white people, OO.

Quote:And I did not say that I found nothing wrong with his statement - that is an assumption on your part that you would like me to claim so you can further attack it. If you really want to know what I thought about his statement, you can ask me after you answer my question above.

What did you find wrong with the statement?

I thought he was trying to be cute, and came up with an inartful way of saying “Rice would be better off admitting more Texans and less Chinese”. Now, before you blow your stack and accuse me again of saying something I did not say, “Chinese” includes people who are citizens of either China and Texans includes people of all ethnicities, including Chinese-Americans.

To me... saying "yellow necks" refers in all Asian people in a very disgusting way. The conversation was about Chinese nationals coming into our universities and taking our knowledge/technology back home with them. He decided to include all Asians (Chinese nationals or not). I mean... how do you think a Chinese-American student from Bellaire HS would feel about reading a Rice alum making that comment on a Rice chat board?

I would hope he could tell the difference, just as I can tell the difference between a Spanish national and a Spanish-American. I think you are short changing him.

Quote:I would also like to point out that “rednecks”, although commonly used by li liberals as a demeaning term toward whites, includes people of all races. Locally, we have several black people who drive pick ups and wear Stetsons, and I have been to several Mexican rodeos and barbecues that had plenty of cowboys there.

Are you saying that the term "rednecks" can be replaced with the term "cowboys"? Because I'm pretty sure that not all cowboys would agree with your statement.

No I am saying the term rednecks covers more than just white people. But maybe we are talking at cross purposes. Why don’t you tell me how you define the term rednecks.?

(05-09-2021 11:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 10:33 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:32 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 09:03 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm not sure what part of this discussion regarding affirmative action has led you to behave like this.

I'd say it's more your entire body of work.

I think you need a nap, bro. You're super grumpy.

NOT condescending at all.

I'm not on the side of this forum that regularly cries about the other side being condescending. Not to mention everything that led up to that comment from him.

(05-09-2021 12:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 12:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 11:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm not on the side of this forum that regularly cries about the other side being condescending. Not to mention everything that led up to that comment from him.

Thanks for reminding me why I think so little of you--as if I needed reminding.

Damn... another Christmas card list that won't include me.

(05-09-2021 12:14 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 12:12 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 11:48 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  I'm not on the side of this forum that regularly cries about the other side being condescending. Not to mention everything that led up to that comment from him.

Thanks for reminding me why I think so little of you--as if I needed reminding.

Damn... another Christmas card list that won't include me.

(05-09-2021 12:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  93, let me be very candid with you. I have little or no use for you or your opinions. I don't block you because 1) it's my policy never to block anyone, 2) my military training taught me that it is helpful to know what the enemy is thinking, and 3) occasionally you provide some comic relief.

Feel free to block me if you wish, I really don't care.

Fair enough. You certainly have the right to your opinion.

I'll be candid with you also. When you say things like "I don't want to deal with the, "Oh, you are just saying that because your son's girlfriend is Asian," comments." and "Kamala Harris is the most reprehensible person on the planet" it speaks to your grasp on reality being somewhat tenuous.

(05-09-2021 12:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 11:46 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 10:16 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 06:51 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-08-2021 05:55 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  It is one, only one, of the clues that lead me to that thought. When he presented that statement, it was clear that you thought it racist against Asians in favor of whites.

What did you think about that statement, OO? Was it racist?

If so... why was it some clue to you about my nefarious race rankings?

If not... would you like me to explain to you why I found the statement to be racist and disappointing as hell to see on a Rice message board?

Quote:But when we discussed, albeit briefly, a meritocracy in college admissions, you made it clear that you thought that was racist against blacks and favoring whites and Asians.

Yes. Without affirmative action I think that in the current system elite universities would not admit many non-athlete BIPOC students if you went solely on SAT scores/AP classes/extra-curriculars. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) you agree with this belief.

Is the current college admissions system "racist" as you put it?

Here's MW: racism is a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Do you not think the black race has an inherent superiority athletically? If not, what in your mind explains the imbalance in certain sports? And if one race or another can be superior in this field, where is your evidence that the races are exactly the same in every other field?

Sure... I think Kenyans have better distance-running "genes" than some, etc. What's your point? Do you believe that extends to different races having a better chance at academic success at elite institutions? I'm not aware of any data suggesting a genetic basis for that. Are you?

. Any data to that is dismissed by your side without reading or vetting, so my answer is I don’t know, but it stands to reason there could be differences other than foot speed or jumping.

I would definitely have some good studies in hand before I put forth a belief that certain races are genetically less likely to succeed at elite universities. I wouldn't just throw that out there.

Quote:

Quote:So going by the first MW definition that is listed... no... I don't think the current system is set up this way because of an overall belief in white/Asian superiority.

Quote:So, what exactly do you support? It is not color blindness, which is what I support.

I know. You have said that you support color blindness a lot. When it comes to college admissions you have acknowledged that your approach will lead to elite schools comprised of almost only well-off White/Asian students. That situation doesn't bother you because it was strictly "merit-based" (ignoring all the ways that the college admissions process is rigged towards rich families).

I have NOT said that. YOU have said that. Once again, you attribute your thoughts to me. But I think the goal of an elite school should be to admit the best students. That would entail more than just raw scores, but less than racial quotas.

I think colleges should be comprised of more than just well-off white/Asian kids (I know there are exceptions, BTW). I'm not sure a better way to get there than affirmative action-type programs. I don't think that means that I think BIPOC are "better" than white people, OO.

Quote:And I did not say that I found nothing wrong with his statement - that is an assumption on your part that you would like me to claim so you can further attack it. If you really want to know what I thought about his statement, you can ask me after you answer my question above.

What did you find wrong with the statement?

I thought he was trying to be cute, and came up with an inartful way of saying “Rice would be better off admitting more Texans and less Chinese”. Now, before you blow your stack and accuse me again of saying something I did not say, “Chinese” includes people who are citizens of either China and Texans includes people of all ethnicities, including Chinese-Americans.

To me... saying "yellow necks" refers in all Asian people in a very disgusting way. The conversation was about Chinese nationals coming into our universities and taking our knowledge/technology back home with them. He decided to include all Asians (Chinese nationals or not). I mean... how do you think a Chinese-American student from Bellaire HS would feel about reading a Rice alum making that comment on a Rice chat board?

I would hope he could tell the difference, just as I can tell the difference between a Spanish national and a Spanish-American. I think you are short changing him.

The Bellaire student could tell the difference? TexanOwl just said "yellow necks". That's a pretty all-encompassing term. I don't know who you are referring to when you say "he" though.

Quote:

Quote:I would also like to point out that “rednecks”, although commonly used by li liberals as a demeaning term toward whites, includes people of all races. Locally, we have several black people who drive pick ups and wear Stetsons, and I have been to several Mexican rodeos and barbecues that had plenty of cowboys there.

Are you saying that the term "rednecks" can be replaced with the term "cowboys"? Because I'm pretty sure that not all cowboys would agree with your statement.

No I am saying the term rednecks covers more than just white people. But maybe we are talking at cross purposes. Why don’t you tell me how you define the term rednecks.?

(05-09-2021 02:50 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 12:13 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-09-2021 10:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  93, let me be very candid with you. I have little or no use for you or your opinions. I don't block you because 1) it's my policy never to block anyone, 2) my military training taught me that it is helpful to know what the enemy is thinking, and 3) occasionally you provide some comic relief.

Feel free to block me if you wish, I really don't care.

Fair enough. You certainly have the right to your opinion.

I'll be candid with you also. When you say things like "I don't want to deal with the, "Oh, you are just saying that because your son's girlfriend is Asian," comments." and "Kamala Harris is the most reprehensible person on the planet" it speaks to your grasp on reality being somewhat tenuous.

I do like how quick on the draw you are for noting someone whom with you disagree as having a tenuous grasp on reality.

Quote:Your count is up to two on this forum alone.

By the way, I have met #s in person before. Several times. Not anywhere near in having a 'tenuous grasp on reality'. His achievements are pretty darn thick and impressive, and he strikes me as having actually a firmer 'grasp on reality' than most people even 40 or 50 years his junior.

Nice drive by ad hom.