(03-02-2022 07:17 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 06:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Democrats, as a whole, actually do support our own border being controlled

Actually, no, they don't.
When and where and how have democrats supported what policy for maintaining border security?
Democrats see a steady stream of illegals as a steady supply of future democrat votes.

And Republicans want to end all immigration of brown people.

(03-02-2022 09:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:17 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 06:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Democrats, as a whole, actually do support our own border being controlled

Actually, no, they don't.
When and where and how have democrats supported what policy for maintaining border security?
Democrats see a steady stream of illegals as a steady supply of future democrat votes.

And Republicans want to end all immigration of brown people.

And that's may be one lie that's bigger than "democrats support our own border being controlled." Again, if you want to assert that statement, provide support in the form of when and where and how have democrats taken what actions to support our own border being controlled.

Democrats reached a compromise with Ronald Reagan. If he would grant amnesty to illegals here already, they would pass a rational immigration policy. He lived up to his end of the deal, they reneged on theirs. And that's the closest democrats have gotten to supporting reasonable border control in the last half century.

For that matter, if you want to state that republicans want to end all immigration of brown people, kindly also provide factual support for that claim.

You seem to take great pleasure in stating outrageous lies. There was a German guy or two who liked to do that back in the last century.

(03-02-2022 08:53 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:17 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 06:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Democrats, as a whole, actually do support our own border being controlled

Actually, no, they don't.

When and where and how have democrats supported what policy for maintaining border security?

Democrats see a steady stream of illegals as a steady supply of future democrat votes.

And Republicans want to end all immigration of brown people.

Look, I can speak in incorrect platitudes too!

And it continues - I have never heard a Republican use the phrase "brown people". Seems to be restricted to left-wingers.

Interesting that the left wing thinks we only have one border - the Mexican border on the south. But we patrol all our borders - north, south, east and west, as well as the Alaskan and Hawaiian borders.

(03-02-2022 10:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Did you miss the point where I said “I can speak in incorrect platitudes too?”

Quote:I’m assuming you did, given that you felt the need to compare me to Hitler, which falls right in line with me calling you bombastic the other day.

Quote:I take great pleasure in pointing out how frequently you and other conservative posters post these sort of shallow platitudes that are pot shots that people here take seriously.

(03-02-2022 10:33 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 08:53 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:17 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 06:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Democrats, as a whole, actually do support our own border being controlled

Actually, no, they don't.

When and where and how have democrats supported what policy for maintaining border security?

Democrats see a steady stream of illegals as a steady supply of future democrat votes.

And Republicans want to end all immigration of brown people.

Look, I can speak in incorrect platitudes too!

And it continues - I have never heard a Republican use the phrase "brown people". Seems to be restricted to left-wingers.

Interesting that the left wing thinks we only have one border - the Mexican border on the south. But we patrol all our borders - north, south, east and west, as well as the Alaskan and Hawaiian borders.

We’re now 2 for 2 for posters not knowing the definition of “incorrect.”

(03-01-2022 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  why won't americans do those those jobs?
They pay too low

Why do they pay pay so low?
Because the illegals will take them for the low rate.

What would happen if the illegals were not there to do the jobs?
The employers would have to offer higher wages to americans.

So who is losing out?
The americans who would take those jobs at the higher rate.

How can illegals afford to take those low paying jobs?
They pay no federal or state income taxes, skip on expenses like required auto insurance, and use free services such as hospital emergency rooms for medical care.

(03-01-2022 06:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:52 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  And you’re being played by your own elected officials that even a healthy majority of illegal immigrants aren’t looking for a different life and would be willing to enter legally if it were an option.

For someone who constantly claims I don't know them, you sure do seem to think you know me.

I say what I say because I've met and spoken to these people personally.... people in both groups. I have sympathy for those who want to be here... and your side has had the opportunity to address them and has repeatedly failed. My side doesn't CLAIM to care that much about them. This is your side's hill they've chosen to die on... and they're using you.

Quote:Your elected officials would rather have you “mad” at us, rather than them. They extort power from you by making you believe these caravans are coming to steal the jobs Americans won’t do themselves.

I don't give a rats ass about that argument... and it's not my side's fight. Its yours. I'm not mad at you personally... you're a useful tool. I'm only mad that your leaders are telling you they care about these people but they never do ANYTHING to actually help them, even when they have the votes to do so. My side doesn't say they care (much) about these people.

It's like you expecting an oil company executive to be a 'leader' in green technology. No, I expect them to drill for oil. If they do one bit more than that, its a good thing. I expect the guy sitting over there on the left crying about the fate of the earth to be the green technology leader... I expect the side arguing in favor of all these 'poor immigrants who can't navigate the system' to fix the system when they have the power to do it. Trump never had that power nor the stated design, Obama and Biden did. Trump certainly seems to have done 'what he could' regarding border security, given that he didn't have congress. What did Obama or Biden do to address the issue??

FTR, you have that same expectation... but when your side has failed so miserably despite having the votes, you can't help but try and play 'whatabout'.

Your inability to look in the mirror continues to astound me.

You have no issue throwing out insults left and right, but you’re a slippery one when the exact same logic is thrown right back at you.

At least recognize that the barbs you send this way apply just as equally to you and your side. If your side wasn’t scaring people with hyperbole about illegal immigrants, maybe you’d have a leg to stand on and the mirror would show a difference. But if I’m a useful tool like you say, you’re in the exact same boat. Parroting Republican talking points about the dangers of illegal immigrants - so much so you’re willing to compare them to invading Russians looking to overthrow a democratic government.

Bravo!

(03-02-2022 10:32 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 09:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:17 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 07:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 06:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Democrats, as a whole, actually do support our own border being controlled

Actually, no, they don't.
When and where and how have democrats supported what policy for maintaining border security?
Democrats see a steady stream of illegals as a steady supply of future democrat votes.

And Republicans want to end all immigration of brown people.

And that's may be one lie that's bigger than "democrats support our own border being controlled." Again, if you want to assert that statement, provide support in the form of when and where and how have democrats taken what actions to support our own border being controlled.

Democrats reached a compromise with Ronald Reagan. If he would grant amnesty to illegals here already, they would pass a rational immigration policy. He lived up to his end of the deal, they reneged on theirs. And that's the closest democrats have gotten to supporting reasonable border control in the last half century.

For that matter, if you want to state that republicans want to end all immigration of brown people, kindly also provide factual support for that claim.

You seem to take great pleasure in stating outrageous lies. There was a German guy or two who liked to do that back in the last century.

Did you miss the point where I said “I can speak in incorrect platitudes too?”

Quote:And that's may be one lie that's bigger than "democrats support our own border being controlled."

Quote:I take great pleasure in pointing out how frequently you and other conservative posters post these sort of shallow platitudes that are pot shots that people here take seriously.

(03-02-2022 11:34 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  why won't americans do those those jobs?
They pay too low

Why do they pay pay so low?
Because the illegals will take them for the low rate.

What would happen if the illegals were not there to do the jobs?
The employers would have to offer higher wages to americans.

So who is losing out?
The americans who would take those jobs at the higher rate.

How can illegals afford to take those low paying jobs?
They pay no federal or state income taxes, skip on expenses like required auto insurance, and use free services such as hospital emergency rooms for medical care.

This. The biggest obstacle to higher wages in the US is a large supply of people who come here... live WELL below our standard of living, which is still well above theirs back home... where they send most of their money.

I used to have a guy who did my yard work. I know he hired illegals because I spoke to his crew. They lived 4 men to a cheap (<$700/mo) apartment in a crappy, crime ridden part of town. They shared a cell phone plan ($120 total). They got furniture and clothes from what people like me threw out or churches or other 'charity' organizations. They ate a lot of beans and tortillas, just like back home. They worked for about $8/hr with no taxes nor benefits, other than an occasional meal from someone like me (when they were there all day doing landscaping or odd jobs). They went to the ER for simple healthcare. They often worked 50-60 hours a week... So in a typical month, they made about $1700 each cash... and had expenses of less than $200. They lived like 'kings' (relative to back home) on $500 and still were able to send $1,000 home to their families, which was a huge multiple of what they would earn back home. And we not only lost out on the tax revenue for that $1,000... but the 'multiplicity' factor of it as it would have worked its way through our system... creating jobs HERE, as opposed to creating jobs THERE.

These men have no intentions of living here. Their families are back there, living a better life with them here than most others where they are. They plan on being here for a few years, sending supplies and money home to build/buy a home while learning some trade skills... and then going home to live off the fruit of their labors. When Trump spoke of ending the flow of billions across the border in these transactions, the left claimed 'racism'.



So addressing this issue would address ANOTHER significant issue for the left. Low skill/wage jobs.

(03-01-2022 06:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:52 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  And you’re being played by your own elected officials that even a healthy majority of illegal immigrants aren’t looking for a different life and would be willing to enter legally if it were an option.

For someone who constantly claims I don't know them, you sure do seem to think you know me.

I say what I say because I've met and spoken to these people personally.... people in both groups. I have sympathy for those who want to be here... and your side has had the opportunity to address them and has repeatedly failed. My side doesn't CLAIM to care that much about them. This is your side's hill they've chosen to die on... and they're using you.

Quote:Your elected officials would rather have you “mad” at us, rather than them. They extort power from you by making you believe these caravans are coming to steal the jobs Americans won’t do themselves.

I don't give a rats ass about that argument... and it's not my side's fight. Its yours. I'm not mad at you personally... you're a useful tool. I'm only mad that your leaders are telling you they care about these people but they never do ANYTHING to actually help them, even when they have the votes to do so. My side doesn't say they care (much) about these people.

It's like you expecting an oil company executive to be a 'leader' in green technology. No, I expect them to drill for oil. If they do one bit more than that, its a good thing. I expect the guy sitting over there on the left crying about the fate of the earth to be the green technology leader... I expect the side arguing in favor of all these 'poor immigrants who can't navigate the system' to fix the system when they have the power to do it. Trump never had that power nor the stated design, Obama and Biden did. Trump certainly seems to have done 'what he could' regarding border security, given that he didn't have congress. What did Obama or Biden do to address the issue??

FTR, you have that same expectation... but when your side has failed so miserably despite having the votes, you can't help but try and play 'whatabout'.

Your inability to look in the mirror continues to astound me.

You have no issue throwing out insults left and right, but you’re a slippery one when the exact same logic is thrown right back at you.

At least recognize that the barbs you send this way apply just as equally to you and your side. If your side wasn’t scaring people with hyperbole about illegal immigrants, maybe you’d have a leg to stand on and the mirror would show a difference. But if I’m a useful tool like you say, you’re in the exact same boat. Parroting Republican talking points about the dangers of illegal immigrants - so much so you’re willing to compare them to invading Russians looking to overthrow a democratic government.

Bravo!

I've parroted nothing, moron. You say you're just responding to my BS post, but you didn't respond to ANYTHING I said, other than to get your poor little feelings hurt about me saying that your politicians are using you...

The proof of that is that when they had complete power to do whatever they wanted, they did not even TRY and fix the immigration problem. They didn't propose, much less pass one single piece of legislation aimed at reducing the flow of illegals... about vetting and processing those 'good', but illegal immigrants.

That's the fact... and rather than discuss that point, you get all 'up in your feelings' because I say your political leaders are lying to you... and using your well intended (yes, I used that word to describe you) compassion for these people.

Jesus, Lad... I said you were honest in your beliefs and well intended.... I said you were being played and you got all butt hurt. I can't even insult your elected officials without you taking it personally.

Seriously?? I have to say something bad about 'my' side in order to say something bad about 'yours'?? I did. I said they don't care much about immigrants.


As for what my side does... which of course is meaningless to this discussion, but in order to appease your delicate sensibilities... please show me where I denied it?? You can't. You don't even have this need/issue... you're just deflecting. I said specifically that my side doesn't care much about these people at all. It sort of goes without saying that they give lip service to it... but the reality is that they don't really care. What they sell is 'The American Dream' to those who have already somehow made it... like perhaps they made some money back home and they come here and magnify it... but they don't give a rats ass about 'the poor and tired'.

I said specifically that on this issue, my side doesn't care (much) about these people. I on the other hand, do. I'm more than willing to work on improving immigration policies to increase the flow of legal immigrants and I suggested that lots of current Republican voters would join me in that... The problem with this is...
a) my side isn't going to sponsor legislation like this because lots on the right are either against it, or don't give a rats ass about it. Some, especially in states with lots of them will co-sponsor or go along with it.... but they will not drive the bus.
b) the side that needs to drive the bus is the side that routinely makes this a rally/battle cry... and that is the left, which is 'your' side. Like me, you don't support everything 'your' side does and you care about things that 'they' don't... but still... they are 'your' side.... and 'your' side has to lead this.
c) and you have yet to say one word about this other than to deflect and cast your own stones

Obama should have done something BIG about it when he had 60% of Congress. He could have still tried when he lost that. Biden could have done some things with his simple majority. Perhaps nothing on the scale of what Obama could have done, but he could have at least put forth legislation and 'made' Republicans shoot it down. And no, I don't think it should take a lot of time to do something like this... They have legislation like this all queued up and ready to go. Details could change, but I think a very realistic proposal in a remotely 'split' congress would be... tougher border enforcement, even walls... in exchange for pressure on states to work WITH ICE as opposed to against them and then much larger staff and resources for vetting people already here or seeking to come here. The bottom line of that would simply be... illegal immigration bad, legal immigration good.

The MOST I heard about such things was when Trump was in office... pushing for walls. At THAT point, we heard some Democrats and their 'reasonable' proposals like I'm suggesting here... but the moment they took power, all of that went silent. The entire focus became on 'ending the walls'... increasing the division between us on something that mere weeks before, seemed like there was room for compromise.

If you want to bring up one of the issues for 'the right' and cast stones at that, feel free. You did it almost every day for 4 years under Trump. Doing so in a thread about the Biden-Harris Administration and a discussion of what purports to be a relatively high priority item for the left is NOT that time.

ETA... I look in the mirror plenty... I just don't insist (as you do) that reasonable and real complaints can't be raised at your side without some sort of in depth study of mine to go along with it. That's YOUR job, not mine... and there is a time and place for it... not simple 'whatabout' like you engage in here

(03-02-2022 12:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Name calling and insulting intelligence - a Hambone classic!

(03-02-2022 12:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 12:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Name calling and insulting intelligence - a Hambone classic!

I guess you don't think this

...posters not knowing the definition of “incorrect.”

is an insult to intelligence. Pot, kettle.

(03-02-2022 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 12:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 12:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Name calling and insulting intelligence - a Hambone classic!

I guess you don't think this

...posters not knowing the definition of “incorrect.”

is an insult to intelligence. Pot, kettle.

I personally don't think that comment is the same as calling you a moron, but to each their own.

(03-02-2022 02:42 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 12:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 12:44 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 12:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Name calling and insulting intelligence - a Hambone classic!

I guess you don't think this

...posters not knowing the definition of “incorrect.”

is an insult to intelligence. Pot, kettle.

I personally don't think that comment is the same as calling you a moron, but to each their own.

Didn't say it was the same. Did somebody call you a moron? Was it me?

BUT...it is an insult to the intelligence of your targets. Something you just complained about in another human being.

Just sayin'.

Quote:I've parroted nothing, moron. You say you're just responding to my BS post, but you didn't respond to ANYTHING I said, other than to get your poor little feelings hurt about me saying that your politicians are using you...

(03-02-2022 12:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Name calling and insulting intelligence - a Hambone classic!

(03-02-2022 07:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 06:52 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Democrats, as a whole, actually do support our own border being controlled

Actually, no, they don't.

(03-02-2022 12:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 11:34 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:12 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  why won't americans do those those jobs?
They pay too low

Why do they pay pay so low?
Because the illegals will take them for the low rate.

What would happen if the illegals were not there to do the jobs?
The employers would have to offer higher wages to americans.

So who is losing out?
The americans who would take those jobs at the higher rate.

How can illegals afford to take those low paying jobs?
They pay no federal or state income taxes, skip on expenses like required auto insurance, and use free services such as hospital emergency rooms for medical care.

This. The biggest obstacle to higher wages in the US is a large supply of people who come here... live WELL below our standard of living, which is still well above theirs back home... where they send most of their money.

I used to have a guy who did my yard work. I know he hired illegals because I spoke to his crew. They lived 4 men to a cheap (<$700/mo) apartment in a crappy, crime ridden part of town. They shared a cell phone plan ($120 total). They got furniture and clothes from what people like me threw out or churches or other 'charity' organizations. They ate a lot of beans and tortillas, just like back home. They worked for about $8/hr with no taxes nor benefits, other than an occasional meal from someone like me (when they were there all day doing landscaping or odd jobs). They went to the ER for simple healthcare. They often worked 50-60 hours a week... So in a typical month, they made about $1700 each cash... and had expenses of less than $200. They lived like 'kings' (relative to back home) on $500 and still were able to send $1,000 home to their families, which was a huge multiple of what they would earn back home. And we not only lost out on the tax revenue for that $1,000... but the 'multiplicity' factor of it as it would have worked its way through our system... creating jobs HERE, as opposed to creating jobs THERE.

These men have no intentions of living here. Their families are back there, living a better life with them here than most others where they are. They plan on being here for a few years, sending supplies and money home to build/buy a home while learning some trade skills... and then going home to live off the fruit of their labors. When Trump spoke of ending the flow of billions across the border in these transactions, the left claimed 'racism'.



So addressing this issue would address ANOTHER significant issue for the left. Low skill/wage jobs.

(03-01-2022 06:41 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:52 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 01:51 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  And you’re being played by your own elected officials that even a healthy majority of illegal immigrants aren’t looking for a different life and would be willing to enter legally if it were an option.

For someone who constantly claims I don't know them, you sure do seem to think you know me.

I say what I say because I've met and spoken to these people personally.... people in both groups. I have sympathy for those who want to be here... and your side has had the opportunity to address them and has repeatedly failed. My side doesn't CLAIM to care that much about them. This is your side's hill they've chosen to die on... and they're using you.

Quote:Your elected officials would rather have you “mad” at us, rather than them. They extort power from you by making you believe these caravans are coming to steal the jobs Americans won’t do themselves.

I don't give a rats ass about that argument... and it's not my side's fight. Its yours. I'm not mad at you personally... you're a useful tool. I'm only mad that your leaders are telling you they care about these people but they never do ANYTHING to actually help them, even when they have the votes to do so. My side doesn't say they care (much) about these people.

It's like you expecting an oil company executive to be a 'leader' in green technology. No, I expect them to drill for oil. If they do one bit more than that, its a good thing. I expect the guy sitting over there on the left crying about the fate of the earth to be the green technology leader... I expect the side arguing in favor of all these 'poor immigrants who can't navigate the system' to fix the system when they have the power to do it. Trump never had that power nor the stated design, Obama and Biden did. Trump certainly seems to have done 'what he could' regarding border security, given that he didn't have congress. What did Obama or Biden do to address the issue??

FTR, you have that same expectation... but when your side has failed so miserably despite having the votes, you can't help but try and play 'whatabout'.

Your inability to look in the mirror continues to astound me.

You have no issue throwing out insults left and right, but you’re a slippery one when the exact same logic is thrown right back at you.

At least recognize that the barbs you send this way apply just as equally to you and your side. If your side wasn’t scaring people with hyperbole about illegal immigrants, maybe you’d have a leg to stand on and the mirror would show a difference. But if I’m a useful tool like you say, you’re in the exact same boat. Parroting Republican talking points about the dangers of illegal immigrants - so much so you’re willing to compare them to invading Russians looking to overthrow a democratic government.

Bravo!

I've parroted nothing, moron. You say you're just responding to my BS post, but you didn't respond to ANYTHING I said, other than to get your poor little feelings hurt about me saying that your politicians are using you...

The proof of that is that when they had complete power to do whatever they wanted, they did not even TRY and fix the immigration problem. They didn't propose, much less pass one single piece of legislation aimed at reducing the flow of illegals... about vetting and processing those 'good', but illegal immigrants.

That's the fact... and rather than discuss that point, you get all 'up in your feelings' because I say your political leaders are lying to you... and using your well intended (yes, I used that word to describe you) compassion for these people.

Jesus, Lad... I said you were honest in your beliefs and well intended.... I said you were being played and you got all butt hurt. I can't even insult your elected officials without you taking it personally.

Seriously?? I have to say something bad about 'my' side in order to say something bad about 'yours'?? I did. I said they don't care much about immigrants.


As for what my side does... which of course is meaningless to this discussion, but in order to appease your delicate sensibilities... please show me where I denied it?? You can't. You don't even have this need/issue... you're just deflecting. I said specifically that my side doesn't care much about these people at all. It sort of goes without saying that they give lip service to it... but the reality is that they don't really care. What they sell is 'The American Dream' to those who have already somehow made it... like perhaps they made some money back home and they come here and magnify it... but they don't give a rats ass about 'the poor and tired'.

I said specifically that on this issue, my side doesn't care (much) about these people. I on the other hand, do. I'm more than willing to work on improving immigration policies to increase the flow of legal immigrants and I suggested that lots of current Republican voters would join me in that... The problem with this is...
a) my side isn't going to sponsor legislation like this because lots on the right are either against it, or don't give a rats ass about it. Some, especially in states with lots of them will co-sponsor or go along with it.... but they will not drive the bus.
b) the side that needs to drive the bus is the side that routinely makes this a rally/battle cry... and that is the left, which is 'your' side. Like me, you don't support everything 'your' side does and you care about things that 'they' don't... but still... they are 'your' side.... and 'your' side has to lead this.
c) and you have yet to say one word about this other than to deflect and cast your own stones

Obama should have done something BIG about it when he had 60% of Congress. He could have still tried when he lost that. Biden could have done some things with his simple majority. Perhaps nothing on the scale of what Obama could have done, but he could have at least put forth legislation and 'made' Republicans shoot it down. And no, I don't think it should take a lot of time to do something like this... They have legislation like this all queued up and ready to go. Details could change, but I think a very realistic proposal in a remotely 'split' congress would be... tougher border enforcement, even walls... in exchange for pressure on states to work WITH ICE as opposed to against them and then much larger staff and resources for vetting people already here or seeking to come here. The bottom line of that would simply be... illegal immigration bad, legal immigration good.

The MOST I heard about such things was when Trump was in office... pushing for walls. At THAT point, we heard some Democrats and their 'reasonable' proposals like I'm suggesting here... but the moment they took power, all of that went silent. The entire focus became on 'ending the walls'... increasing the division between us on something that mere weeks before, seemed like there was room for compromise.

If you want to bring up one of the issues for 'the right' and cast stones at that, feel free. You did it almost every day for 4 years under Trump. Doing so in a thread about the Biden-Harris Administration and a discussion of what purports to be a relatively high priority item for the left is NOT that time.

ETA... I look in the mirror plenty... I just don't insist (as you do) that reasonable and real complaints can't be raised at your side without some sort of in depth study of mine to go along with it. That's YOUR job, not mine... and there is a time and place for it... not simple 'whatabout' like you engage in here

Name calling and insulting intelligence - a Hambone classic!

(03-02-2022 08:34 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  One thing I noticed --- when Rep Boebert interjected the phrase '13 of them' when Biden was talking about the return of 'flag draped coffins' of the military --- did anyone notice that right after that interjection he plopped 'including my son Beau'.

Look, I have the utmost respect of Beau's military service, and it is tragic that he died while serving.

But, it is really kind of grotesque to allude to an equivalence between an officer dying of cancer (tragic, yes) and the tying of that cancer death to an equivalence to personnel dying directly as a result of their service.

(03-02-2022 08:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-02-2022 08:34 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  One thing I noticed --- when Rep Boebert interjected the phrase '13 of them' when Biden was talking about the return of 'flag draped coffins' of the military --- did anyone notice that right after that interjection he plopped 'including my son Beau'.

Look, I have the utmost respect of Beau's military service, and it is tragic that he died while serving.

But, it is really kind of grotesque to allude to an equivalence between an officer dying of cancer (tragic, yes) and the tying of that cancer death to an equivalence to personnel dying directly as a result of their service.

You know Biden was talking about the effects of burn pits on soldiers at that time, right?

Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have faced many dangers — one being stationed at bases and breathing in toxic smoke from burn pits," Biden said. “Many of you have been there. I’ve been in and out of Afghanistan and Iraq over 40 times that incinerated waste, the wastes of war—medical and hazardous material, jet fuel, and so much more—and they came home, many of the world’s fittest and best trained warriors in the world, never the same. Headaches. Numbness. Dizziness. A cancer that would put them in a flag-draped coffin. I know…

One of those soldiers was my son Major Beau Biden. I don’t know for sure if the burn pit that he lived near, that his hooch was near in Iraq, and before that in Kosovo, is the cause of his brain cancer, the diseases of so many of our troops. But I’m committed to finding out everything we can.”