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RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 01:51 PM
What a pud:
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Rice93 - 02-24-2022 02:26 PM
(02-24-2022 01:51 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: What a pud:
When all you have is a hammer everything is a nail...
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 03:27 PM
(02-24-2022 01:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:(02-24-2022 01:00 PM)Rice93 Wrote:(02-24-2022 12:31 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:(02-24-2022 12:07 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: Here is Biden's words on Tuesday:
Quote:We have no intention of fighting Russia. We want to send an unmistakable message, though, that the United States, together with our allies, will defend every inch of NATO territory and abide by the commitments we made to NATO.
What a stance --- the strength. The courage.
A meaningless pledge just immediately prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine kind of stands as a cruel joke.
But, he doesnt get reporters maddy poo as a positive, I guess.
Yes, he is very nice and polite when he abandons our allies. I guess he has forgotten all that Ukraine did for Hunter.
What should Biden be doing in your opinion? Sending troops to defend Ukraine?
Withholding aid until they release some dirt on his political opponent of course.
Speaking of Hunter, and Ukraine, this article about a week ago was interesting.
https://strategypage.com/on_point/20220216161357.aspx
Embedded in there is a reference to the just recent disclosure of a State Department memo about Hunter that is also pretty interesting for all the fan bois of Hunter and his Ukraine jaunt, especially as it relates to the impeachment relating to it.
That deeper dive on the recently disclosed email is here: https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/classified-state-department-email-declared-hunter-biden
I've been an acquaintance of the author (austin bay) for awhile. Neat guy.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - westsidewolf1989 - 02-24-2022 03:45 PM
(02-24-2022 01:51 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: What a pud:
Don't worry, Swift Boat, I'm sure Putin will have his hybrid tanks switch off their engines when they aren't actively trampling over Ukrainian democracy
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - OptimisticOwl - 02-24-2022 03:50 PM
(02-24-2022 03:27 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:(02-24-2022 01:17 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:(02-24-2022 01:00 PM)Rice93 Wrote:(02-24-2022 12:31 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:(02-24-2022 12:07 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: Here is Biden's words on Tuesday:
What a stance --- the strength. The courage.
A meaningless pledge just immediately prior to Russia's invasion of Ukraine kind of stands as a cruel joke.
But, he doesnt get reporters maddy poo as a positive, I guess.
Yes, he is very nice and polite when he abandons our allies. I guess he has forgotten all that Ukraine did for Hunter.
What should Biden be doing in your opinion? Sending troops to defend Ukraine?
Withholding aid until they release some dirt on his political opponent of course.
Speaking of Hunter, and Ukraine, this article about a week ago was interesting.
https://strategypage.com/on_point/20220216161357.aspx
Embedded in there is a reference to the just recent disclosure of a State Department memo about Hunter that is also pretty interesting for all the fan bois of Hunter and his Ukraine jaunt, especially as it relates to the impeachment relating to it.
That deeper dive on the recently disclosed email is here: https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/classified-state-department-email-declared-hunter-biden
I've been an acquaintance of the author (austin bay) for awhile. Neat guy.
Although the article seems to indicate that Joe was clueless about Hunter, I think the apple does not fall far from the tree, especially when the commodity being offered is access to the tree.
But he is polite. (The tree, that is)
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - georgewebb - 02-24-2022 03:55 PM
(02-24-2022 01:51 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: What a pud:
Not the Onion?????
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 04:04 PM
(02-24-2022 03:45 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:(02-24-2022 01:51 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: What a pud:
Don't worry, Swift Boat, I'm sure Putin will have his hybrid tanks switch off their engines when they aren't actively trampling over Ukrainian democracy
Democrat's losing Presidential candidate: "I hope President Putin will help us with respect to what we need to do to stay on track with the climate."
Democrat's winning Presidential candidate: "[A] few months ago when you were asked what is the biggest geopolitical group facing America, you said Russia. .... And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back."
The present Democratic President, on the prospect of an invasion of a sovereign state: "We have no intention of fighting Russia. We want to send an unmistakable message, though, that the United States, together with our allies, will defend every inch of NATO territory and abide by the commitments we made to NATO."
If I was a Ukrainian, I think I might have a clue on how a Czech might have felt on October 1, 1938. Or how a Pole might have felt on September 2, 1939, towards the Western powers.
Hopefully we (i.e. the Democratic West) dont pile drive the Poles again. With Biden's record, I would feel jittery.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 04:17 PM
I read a piece about the global repercussions of Mr Spine Biden.
In short, the Budapest Accord said to the Ukraine that if they gave up what was literally the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world, then the signatories would give Ukraine their security assurances for the sovereignty of Ukraine.
The signatories were Russia, the US, and United Kingdom.
Now we see, from Spine Biden, that the response to the Budapest Accord, when actually in play, is literally: "We have no intention of fighting Russia. We want to send an unmistakable message, though, that the United States, together with our allies, will defend every inch of NATO territory and abide by the commitments we made to NATO."
Which is gutless. Notwithstanding that, how do you think Japan, S Korea, and Taiwan, all nuclear capable, will view the assurances of the United States? In practice, those three have given up their moves towards nuclearization because of the United States assurance to each of the three.
Second, one has to wonder if Russia would have done what they have done if facing a nuclear armed Ukraine.
Now that we sold that assurance down the river, and Ukraine gave up that self-assurance, do people think it more possible, or less likely, that any of the nuclear capable countries will forego their own nuclear deterrence.
Biden has been, just in one year, the most harmful President that the United States has ever seen.
I hope the Democrats are proud of their votes.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - georgewebb - 02-24-2022 04:24 PM
Th 1930s called. They want their foreign policy back.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 04:25 PM
(02-24-2022 04:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote: Th 1930s called. They want their foreign policy back.
mic drop -- wow (too bad there isnt a reverential bow emoji....)
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Frizzy Owl - 02-24-2022 04:32 PM
(02-24-2022 04:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote: Th 1930s called. They want their foreign policy back.
mic drop -- wow (too bad there isnt a reverential bow emoji....)
The time to do things differently would have been months or even years ago.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Hambone10 - 02-24-2022 04:34 PM
(02-24-2022 04:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote: Th 1930s called. They want their foreign policy back.
mic drop -- wow (too bad there isnt a reverential bow emoji....)
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Rice93 - 02-24-2022 04:48 PM
I think I've been pretty clear here that I'm no fan of Biden. But how would things have been different with Trump as President as it pertains to Ukraine?
Didn't Trump run on a platform of "we're not going to get involved in other people's wars!"?
Perhaps he would have been more likely to give assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO?
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Owl 69/70/75 - 02-24-2022 04:53 PM
(02-24-2022 04:32 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: The time to do things differently would have been months or even years ago.
Since the Cold War ended, our foreign policy has consistently served to drive Russia toward China. I think a more rational and sensible approach would have been to triangulate Russia and China against each other. But the folks in charge at State, Defense, and CIA did not agree.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Frizzy Owl - 02-24-2022 04:59 PM
(02-24-2022 04:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote: I think I've been pretty clear here that I'm no fan of Biden. But how would things have been different with Trump as President as it pertains to Ukraine?
Didn't Trump run on a platform of "we're not going to get involved in other people's wars!"?
Perhaps he would have been more likely to give assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO?
He probably would have. NATO isn't much use in this regard anyway.
Stationing token U.S. forces in Ukraine at the same time would have made attacking Ukraine more risky at the same time Russia's main grievance was redressed.
Also, Trump is often faulted by the neocon wing of the Democrats for not demonizing and isolating Russia.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - OptimisticOwl - 02-24-2022 05:05 PM
(02-24-2022 04:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote: I think I've been pretty clear here that I'm no fan of Biden. But how would things have been different with Trump as President as it pertains to Ukraine?
Didn't Trump run on a platform of "we're not going to get involved in other people's wars!"?
Perhaps he would have been more likely to give assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO?
You're no fan of the man you voted for? In what ways has he disappointed you? Although it seems you are not the only democrat to feel this way.
IMO, we would not be facing this situation if Trump was still President. Putin did not move in the four years Trump was in office.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 05:11 PM
(02-24-2022 04:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:24 PM)georgewebb Wrote: Th 1930s called. They want their foreign policy back.
mic drop -- wow (too bad there isnt a reverential bow emoji....)
That is simply, and literally, a 'bow' emoji, NOT a "reverential bow" emoji.
(Channeling the usual style of debate in these threads....)
Thx Ham....
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - tanqtonic - 02-24-2022 05:20 PM
(02-24-2022 05:05 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote: I think I've been pretty clear here that I'm no fan of Biden. But how would things have been different with Trump as President as it pertains to Ukraine?
Didn't Trump run on a platform of "we're not going to get involved in other people's wars!"?
Perhaps he would have been more likely to give assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO?
You're no fan of the man you voted for? In what ways has he disappointed you? Although it seems you are not the only democrat to feel this way.
IMO, we would not be facing this situation if Trump was still President. Putin did not move in the four years Trump was in office.
At the very least, Trump kept the hydrocarbon boot on Vlad's neck. Hydrocarbon policy is probably one of *the best* methods of Russia check since a massively disproportionate amount of their economy is based on that.
When Biden loosened that necktie (he was probably a dumb*** on that point, and did it in response to the Green constituency), that was a massive shift in allowing Vlad to exercise his strong arm.
And he doubled down on them today. "Our sanctions package is specifically designed to allow energy payments to continue."
Instead of US production keeping a boot on Russia, the tables are now turned. Biden is now so scared of Russia oil and the effects on the price that he wont go down the most effective sanction path at all. In fact "Our sanctions package is specifically designed to allow energy payments to continue."
What a raging imbecilic fktard in that regard.
In distinction, I guarantee you under Trump that card would be a killer card to play. Amongst others.
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Rice93 - 02-24-2022 05:20 PM
(02-24-2022 04:59 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote: I think I've been pretty clear here that I'm no fan of Biden. But how would things have been different with Trump as President as it pertains to Ukraine?
Didn't Trump run on a platform of "we're not going to get involved in other people's wars!"?
Perhaps he would have been more likely to give assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO?
He probably would have. NATO isn't much use in this regard anyway.
Is that a concession that you would have been happy with? How about if that’s what Biden did? Gave away NATO but avoided a Russian invasion. You would have been cheering for him at that point?
Quote:Stationing token U.S. forces in Ukraine at the same time would have made attacking Ukraine more risky at the same time Russia's main grievance was redressed.
I’m not 100% that I follow you. Are you saying that that is what it should’ve been done? We should’ve stationed troops in Ukraine?
Isn’t that exactly the sort of move the Trump said he would not do? Send our troops to get involved in other people’s’ conflicts y
RE: Biden-Harris Administration - Frizzy Owl - 02-24-2022 05:30 PM
(02-24-2022 05:20 PM)Rice93 Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:59 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:(02-24-2022 04:48 PM)Rice93 Wrote: I think I've been pretty clear here that I'm no fan of Biden. But how would things have been different with Trump as President as it pertains to Ukraine?
Didn't Trump run on a platform of "we're not going to get involved in other people's wars!"?
Perhaps he would have been more likely to give assurances that Ukraine wouldn't be joining NATO?
He probably would have. NATO isn't much use in this regard anyway.
Is that a concession that you would have been happy with? How about if that’s what Biden did? Gave away NATO but avoided a Russian invasion. You would have been cheering for him at that point?
Quote:Stationing token U.S. forces in Ukraine at the same time would have made attacking Ukraine more risky at the same time Russia's main grievance was redressed.
I’m not 100% that I follow you. Are you saying that that is what it should’ve been done? We should’ve stationed troops in Ukraine?
Isn’t that exactly the sort of move the Trump said he would not do? Send our troops to get involved in other people’s’ conflicts y
It wasn't a conflict at that point. It's clearly too late now. I don't know if Trump would have done that, but it was certainly an option.
I don't care if Ukraine ever joins NATO or not, and I could be wrong but I don't think Trump did either.
What's the goal here, anyway? To prevent a war in eastern Europe, or to make it more likely? I liked Trump's brand of pacifism better than Biden or NATO's - which to you is more authentic based on actual results?