(10-26-2020 06:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I went to vote early today...

I was told I'd already voted. Turns out that my father (who shares my first and last name) had already voted and the person who checked him in, clicked on the wrong 'Hambone'. Thankfully, the election official took care of it and both of our votes will count. I DID have to go get him to 'resign' the correct ballot. Good thing I knew him.

(10-26-2020 06:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I went to vote early today...

I was told I'd already voted. Turns out that my father (who shares my first and last name) had already voted and the person who checked him in, clicked on the wrong 'Hambone'. Thankfully, the election official took care of it and both of our votes will count. I DID have to go get him to 'resign' the correct ballot. Good thing I knew him.

(10-26-2020 06:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I went to vote early today...

I was told I'd already voted. Turns out that my father (who shares my first and last name) had already voted and the person who checked him in, clicked on the wrong 'Hambone'. Thankfully, the election official took care of it and both of our votes will count. I DID have to go get him to 'resign' the correct ballot. Good thing I knew him.

(10-26-2020 09:05 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(10-26-2020 06:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I went to vote early today...

I was told I'd already voted. Turns out that my father (who shares my first and last name) had already voted and the person who checked him in, clicked on the wrong 'Hambone'. Thankfully, the election official took care of it and both of our votes will count. I DID have to go get him to 'resign' the correct ballot. Good thing I knew him.

As part of the process of clearing the mistake up, did either of you have to produce ID? If so, can you explain why to those who believe ID in voting is unnecessary?

(10-27-2020 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-26-2020 09:05 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(10-26-2020 06:15 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I went to vote early today...

I was told I'd already voted. Turns out that my father (who shares my first and last name) had already voted and the person who checked him in, clicked on the wrong 'Hambone'. Thankfully, the election official took care of it and both of our votes will count. I DID have to go get him to 'resign' the correct ballot. Good thing I knew him.

As part of the process of clearing the mistake up, did either of you have to produce ID? If so, can you explain why to those who believe ID in voting is unnecessary?

Even though the person who checked me in, as well as the 'judge' had known us for 30+ years... one of them plays bells at the church with my mom... we both had to produce ID. I had to go home and get him to come back and re-sign. Had they not known us, MY vote would have likely counted, but his would have been invalidated. I actually considered not voting so that this wouldn't happen. Thankfully, they were able to retrieve his record and pull it out to be handled 'manually' like a provisional ballot.... with the attached documentation.

Without the ID, both of us would have voted, but neither of them would have counted because they wouldn't be able to tell if EITHER of us was the correct person.

(10-27-2020 10:18 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am OptimisticOwl, Jr. My father and I lived in neighboring houses. Plenty of times, there was confusion. As a result, I always advise expectant parents to avoid naming the kid after Dad. In most cases, Little Gary grows up to be 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Big Gary.

After my son died, his name (at my address) remained on the rolls for 10+ years.

When I was a young man, before I went into business for myself, my employer ran a payroll app for a maintenance company. I could not get the checks right, and upon inspection, learned there were 40 employees using the same name, SSN, and address. Illegals. In the jurisdictions where they allow illegals to vote, I wonder how this is handled. I must know 20 men named Juan Garcia. (and one Juanita) BTW, everyone of them has a driver's license.

When I presented my ID, they used it to look me up. They turned the screen around and asked if I was still at that address. I said yes, and they required me to sign a statement to that effect (finger on screen). probably did not take much longer than giving your name and address. Especially if one's address is something like 2715-B Old Joe Nelson road. maybe 10 seconds more?

There is no good reason not to require photo ID.

(10-27-2020 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 10:18 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am OptimisticOwl, Jr. My father and I lived in neighboring houses. Plenty of times, there was confusion. As a result, I always advise expectant parents to avoid naming the kid after Dad. In most cases, Little Gary grows up to be 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Big Gary.

After my son died, his name (at my address) remained on the rolls for 10+ years.

When I was a young man, before I went into business for myself, my employer ran a payroll app for a maintenance company. I could not get the checks right, and upon inspection, learned there were 40 employees using the same name, SSN, and address. Illegals. In the jurisdictions where they allow illegals to vote, I wonder how this is handled. I must know 20 men named Juan Garcia. (and one Juanita) BTW, everyone of them has a driver's license.

When I presented my ID, they used it to look me up. They turned the screen around and asked if I was still at that address. I said yes, and they required me to sign a statement to that effect (finger on screen). probably did not take much longer than giving your name and address. Especially if one's address is something like 2715-B Old Joe Nelson road. maybe 10 seconds more?

There is no good reason not to require photo ID.

We can agree to disagree - that horse has been beaten dead on here.

(10-27-2020 11:13 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 10:18 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am OptimisticOwl, Jr. My father and I lived in neighboring houses. Plenty of times, there was confusion. As a result, I always advise expectant parents to avoid naming the kid after Dad. In most cases, Little Gary grows up to be 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Big Gary.

After my son died, his name (at my address) remained on the rolls for 10+ years.

When I was a young man, before I went into business for myself, my employer ran a payroll app for a maintenance company. I could not get the checks right, and upon inspection, learned there were 40 employees using the same name, SSN, and address. Illegals. In the jurisdictions where they allow illegals to vote, I wonder how this is handled. I must know 20 men named Juan Garcia. (and one Juanita) BTW, everyone of them has a driver's license.

When I presented my ID, they used it to look me up. They turned the screen around and asked if I was still at that address. I said yes, and they required me to sign a statement to that effect (finger on screen). probably did not take much longer than giving your name and address. Especially if one's address is something like 2715-B Old Joe Nelson road. maybe 10 seconds more?

There is no good reason not to require photo ID.

We can agree to disagree - that horse has been beaten dead on here.

We can disagree - but I have reason and logic on my side.

(10-27-2020 11:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 11:13 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 10:18 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am OptimisticOwl, Jr. My father and I lived in neighboring houses. Plenty of times, there was confusion. As a result, I always advise expectant parents to avoid naming the kid after Dad. In most cases, Little Gary grows up to be 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than Big Gary.

After my son died, his name (at my address) remained on the rolls for 10+ years.

When I was a young man, before I went into business for myself, my employer ran a payroll app for a maintenance company. I could not get the checks right, and upon inspection, learned there were 40 employees using the same name, SSN, and address. Illegals. In the jurisdictions where they allow illegals to vote, I wonder how this is handled. I must know 20 men named Juan Garcia. (and one Juanita) BTW, everyone of them has a driver's license.

When I presented my ID, they used it to look me up. They turned the screen around and asked if I was still at that address. I said yes, and they required me to sign a statement to that effect (finger on screen). probably did not take much longer than giving your name and address. Especially if one's address is something like 2715-B Old Joe Nelson road. maybe 10 seconds more?

There is no good reason not to require photo ID.

We can agree to disagree - that horse has been beaten dead on here.

We can disagree - but I have reason and logic on my side.

As do I - disagreements are not always between logic and illogic.

(10-27-2020 09:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Without the ID, both of us would have voted, but neither of them would have counted because they wouldn't be able to tell if EITHER of us was the correct person.

I don't think that's the case without ID being required. In NC (where I didn't have to show ID), I had to provide my name and the address against which my voter registration was connected.

Quote:My guess is this issue would have been either caught on the front end or the back end because of the address given needing to match the voter registration. For example, either your father would have been correctly marked because the clerk would have asked for his address and made sure to document the vote correctly or the issue would have been caught when you gave your address and a vote was already documented against your voter registration.

(10-27-2020 12:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 09:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Without the ID, both of us would have voted, but neither of them would have counted because they wouldn't be able to tell if EITHER of us was the correct person.

I don't think that's the case without ID being required. In NC (where I didn't have to show ID), I had to provide my name and the address against which my voter registration was connected.

So did my dad. His address is #1234 Happy Street. I own the house at #1235 Happy Street. The person missed it, or because he's in his 80's, he misheard them and confirmed the wrong information. He had both his ID AND his voter registration card, as did I.

Quote:My guess is this issue would have been either caught on the front end or the back end because of the address given needing to match the voter registration. For example, either your father would have been correctly marked because the clerk would have asked for his address and made sure to document the vote correctly or the issue would have been caught when you gave your address and a vote was already documented against your voter registration.

This makes zero sense. You're suggesting that without voter ID, they would simply 'move' the ballot to another registered voter without checking with that person? That's not how it works... or it sure as hell SHOULDN"T be.

Well, the person who voted wasn't the person we marked, so lets guess at whom it really was. It was 'probably' this guy? C'mon.

They already told me, if he didn't come down and 're-sign' his ballot, his vote would be discarded.

As I said, they DID verbally verify the address even beyond the ID and registration care, and my birthdate. I suspect that the initial person was simply inattentive or perhaps simply slipped with their mouse click.

Let's change things slightly... My father is older... early alzheimer's. If he had told them... No, I didn't vote yet... what should they have done with that vote? Thrown it out right so that I could vote since I could easily prove (using ID) that it was me? Now, how are they going to go catch the person who fraudulently voted (or prove that it was actually he who voted) since cameras aren't allowed?

The only way they can do that would be to show them his signature... which I actually observed (they let me help him because he asked for my help) was dramatically different using a stylus than it is when he uses a pen. I mean I suspect a handwriting expert could show the similarities, but to the untrained eye, even HE didn't recognize his signature.

(10-27-2020 01:16 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 12:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 09:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Without the ID, both of us would have voted, but neither of them would have counted because they wouldn't be able to tell if EITHER of us was the correct person.

I don't think that's the case without ID being required. In NC (where I didn't have to show ID), I had to provide my name and the address against which my voter registration was connected.

So did my dad. His address is #1234 Happy Street. I own the house at #1235 Happy Street. The person missed it, or because he's in his 80's, he misheard them and confirmed the wrong information. He had both his ID AND his voter registration card, as did I.

Quote:My guess is this issue would have been either caught on the front end or the back end because of the address given needing to match the voter registration. For example, either your father would have been correctly marked because the clerk would have asked for his address and made sure to document the vote correctly or the issue would have been caught when you gave your address and a vote was already documented against your voter registration.

This makes zero sense. You're suggesting that without voter ID, they would simply 'move' the ballot to another registered voter without checking with that person? That's not how it works... or it sure as hell SHOULDN"T be.

Well, the person who voted wasn't the person we marked, so lets guess at whom it really was. It was 'probably' this guy? C'mon.

They already told me, if he didn't come down and 're-sign' his ballot, his vote would be discarded.

As I said, they DID verbally verify the address even beyond the ID and registration care, and my birthdate. I suspect that the initial person was simply inattentive or perhaps simply slipped with their mouse click.

Let's change things slightly... My father is older... early alzheimer's. If he had told them... No, I didn't vote yet... what should they have done with that vote? Thrown it out right so that I could vote since I could easily prove (using ID) that it was me? Now, how are they going to go catch the person who fraudulently voted (or prove that it was actually he who voted) since cameras aren't allowed?

The only way they can do that would be to show them his signature... which I actually observed (they let me help him because he asked for my help) was dramatically different using a stylus than it is when he uses a pen. I mean I suspect a handwriting expert could show the similarities, but to the untrained eye, even HE didn't recognize his signature.

Flying off the handles a bit - I am not suggesting that anyone would move the vote.

I was suggesting that there is no difference between having to have shown an ID and not having to have shown an ID in how this would be resolved.

(10-27-2020 01:29 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 01:16 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 12:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 09:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Without the ID, both of us would have voted, but neither of them would have counted because they wouldn't be able to tell if EITHER of us was the correct person.

I don't think that's the case without ID being required. In NC (where I didn't have to show ID), I had to provide my name and the address against which my voter registration was connected.

So did my dad. His address is #1234 Happy Street. I own the house at #1235 Happy Street. The person missed it, or because he's in his 80's, he misheard them and confirmed the wrong information. He had both his ID AND his voter registration card, as did I.

Quote:My guess is this issue would have been either caught on the front end or the back end because of the address given needing to match the voter registration. For example, either your father would have been correctly marked because the clerk would have asked for his address and made sure to document the vote correctly or the issue would have been caught when you gave your address and a vote was already documented against your voter registration.

This makes zero sense. You're suggesting that without voter ID, they would simply 'move' the ballot to another registered voter without checking with that person? That's not how it works... or it sure as hell SHOULDN"T be.

Well, the person who voted wasn't the person we marked, so lets guess at whom it really was. It was 'probably' this guy? C'mon.

They already told me, if he didn't come down and 're-sign' his ballot, his vote would be discarded.

As I said, they DID verbally verify the address even beyond the ID and registration care, and my birthdate. I suspect that the initial person was simply inattentive or perhaps simply slipped with their mouse click.

Let's change things slightly... My father is older... early alzheimer's. If he had told them... No, I didn't vote yet... what should they have done with that vote? Thrown it out right so that I could vote since I could easily prove (using ID) that it was me? Now, how are they going to go catch the person who fraudulently voted (or prove that it was actually he who voted) since cameras aren't allowed?

The only way they can do that would be to show them his signature... which I actually observed (they let me help him because he asked for my help) was dramatically different using a stylus than it is when he uses a pen. I mean I suspect a handwriting expert could show the similarities, but to the untrained eye, even HE didn't recognize his signature.

Flying off the handles a bit - I am not suggesting that anyone would move the vote.

I was suggesting that there is no difference between having to have shown an ID and not having to have shown an ID in how this would be resolved.

But requiring an ID throws up a roadblock to this happening in the first place -- even if it did not prevent it in this instance.

Going back to when I was in California, there was one local election where someone apparently *did* vote in my stead. It was a rather tomey precinct, and I doubt that it was intentional, but the end result is that I was forced to use a provisional ballot.

So for all purposes, my vote was cancelled in error.

Kind of highlights the ways that a non-ID system can be gamed for bad purposes. And, when you talk to the various union reps in San Jose, it has been consistently for the last 30 years or so.

Yep, the sheer horror of requiring an ID to vote.

(10-27-2020 01:16 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Flying off the handles a bit - I am not suggesting that anyone would move the vote.

I was suggesting that there is no difference between having to have shown an ID and not having to have shown an ID in how this would be resolved.

(10-27-2020 01:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 01:16 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Flying off the handles a bit - I am not suggesting that anyone would move the vote.

I was suggesting that there is no difference between having to have shown an ID and not having to have shown an ID in how this would be resolved.

Not reading well a bit - I suggested that without the ability to do so by being able to identify WHOM voted incorrectly, his VALID vote would have been thrown out.

So yes, there is a BIG difference. In this instance, because they could pull the ID that was presented when the person who voted under my registration, they could SEE that it was my father, who could then come down and re-sign his ballot.

Without voter ID, they would have allowed ME to vote, and thrown his out because they wouldn't have known who he was.

Without voter ID, if could have been YOU pretending to be me... casting a vote... and if I come in later, they throw yours out... but what if I don't vote? I seriously doubt anyone trying to change a Presidential election would commit fraud this way... They'd likely use mail... but for a local referendum?? You bet.

(10-27-2020 01:29 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 01:16 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 12:59 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 09:51 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-27-2020 08:52 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Without the ID, both of us would have voted, but neither of them would have counted because they wouldn't be able to tell if EITHER of us was the correct person.

I don't think that's the case without ID being required. In NC (where I didn't have to show ID), I had to provide my name and the address against which my voter registration was connected.

So did my dad. His address is #1234 Happy Street. I own the house at #1235 Happy Street. The person missed it, or because he's in his 80's, he misheard them and confirmed the wrong information. He had both his ID AND his voter registration card, as did I.

Quote:My guess is this issue would have been either caught on the front end or the back end because of the address given needing to match the voter registration. For example, either your father would have been correctly marked because the clerk would have asked for his address and made sure to document the vote correctly or the issue would have been caught when you gave your address and a vote was already documented against your voter registration.

This makes zero sense. You're suggesting that without voter ID, they would simply 'move' the ballot to another registered voter without checking with that person? That's not how it works... or it sure as hell SHOULDN"T be.

Well, the person who voted wasn't the person we marked, so lets guess at whom it really was. It was 'probably' this guy? C'mon.

They already told me, if he didn't come down and 're-sign' his ballot, his vote would be discarded.

As I said, they DID verbally verify the address even beyond the ID and registration care, and my birthdate. I suspect that the initial person was simply inattentive or perhaps simply slipped with their mouse click.

Let's change things slightly... My father is older... early alzheimer's. If he had told them... No, I didn't vote yet... what should they have done with that vote? Thrown it out right so that I could vote since I could easily prove (using ID) that it was me? Now, how are they going to go catch the person who fraudulently voted (or prove that it was actually he who voted) since cameras aren't allowed?

The only way they can do that would be to show them his signature... which I actually observed (they let me help him because he asked for my help) was dramatically different using a stylus than it is when he uses a pen. I mean I suspect a handwriting expert could show the similarities, but to the untrained eye, even HE didn't recognize his signature.

Flying off the handles a bit - I am not suggesting that anyone would move the vote.

I was suggesting that there is no difference between having to have shown an ID and not having to have shown an ID in how this would be resolved.

But requiring an ID throws up a roadblock to this happening in the first place -- even if it did not prevent it in this instance.

Going back to when I was in California, there was one local election where someone apparently *did* vote in my stead. It was a rather tomey precinct, and I doubt that it was intentional, but the end result is that I was forced to use a provisional ballot.

So for all purposes, my vote was cancelled in error.

Kind of highlights the ways that a non-ID system can be gamed for bad purposes. And, when you talk to the various union reps in San Jose, it has been consistently for the last 30 years or so.

Yep, the sheer horror of requiring an ID to vote.

(10-28-2020 02:47 PM)JimTiger Wrote:  Are you saying in Texas they take a picture of your ID when you vote and link it with your ballot?