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+---- Thread: Problems for Wichita St in hoops (/thread-908321.html)
Problems for Wichita St in hoops - stever20 - 10-08-2020 10:56 PM
Jackasses like this need to be gone from sports period...
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - IWokeUpLikeThis - 10-08-2020 11:45 PM
crazy stories in this one
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - jedclampett - 10-09-2020 02:56 AM
These offenses are serious enough that Marshall may end up being fired.
From some standpoints, it might be in WSU's best interest to do so.
Would they have any trouble finding a successor to Marshall who could achieve comparable success with the Shockers? Probably not.
Wichita State has both the financial backing (Koch Brothers) and fan support (attendance) that are required to hire a top-notch Head Coach if Marshall leaves.
Due to the program's outstanding fan support and very long track record of BB success, the Wichita State job would be considered one of the "plum" coaching opportunities in the nation.
Notably, Wichita State had numerous nationally-ranked basketball teams in the decades before Marshall became HC, including:
A 27-4 team in 1953-54 that attained a #11 ranking in the mid-season AP Top 20.
A 19-8 team in 1962-63 that was ranked #5 in the Final AP Top 20.
A 23-6 Elite Eight team in 1963-64 that was ranked #5 in the Final AP Top 20.
A 21-9 team in 1964-65 that advanced to the NCAA Final Four.
A 26-7 team in 1980-81 that advanced to the NCAA Sweet Sixteen.
A 23-6 team in 1981-82 that attained a #2 ranking in the mid-season AP Top 20.
A 25-3 team in 1982-83 that was ranked #14 in the Final AP Top 20.
A 26-9 team in 2005-06 that advanced to the NCAA Sweet Sixteen.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - CliftonAve - 10-09-2020 05:42 AM
A couple years ago, Marshall’s wife and daughter were escorted from a game against Cincinnati. They behaved so badly here that they were asked not to ever return to the Queen City for a game.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - Todor - 10-09-2020 05:46 AM
I'll wait and see on this. Some of the allegations happened 5 years ago so for it to hit the news now right before the season starts seems odd to me.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - jedclampett - 10-09-2020 06:03 AM
(10-09-2020 05:46 AM)Todor Wrote: I'll wait and see on this. Some of the allegations happened 5 years ago so for it to hit the news now right before the season starts seems odd to me.
You probably won't have to wait long. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.
Some fans have probably started connecting the dots, given the seemingly mysterious decisions of some of Marshall's best players to quit the team, as well as patterns of under-performance by Marshall's teams suggesting the possibility of issues with team morale.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - IWokeUpLikeThis - 10-09-2020 07:10 AM
(10-09-2020 05:46 AM)Todor Wrote: I'll wait and see on this. Some of the allegations happened 5 years ago so for it to hit the news now right before the season starts seems odd to me.
The Stadium article stever posted says they contacted 26 players and 10 coaches. 24 players and 9 coaches corroborated stories while 2 players and 1 coach defended Marshall.
The only thing left is WSU getting all their ducks in a row to fire him with cause so they don’t get saddled with a monster buyout. Which they’ve already started on since they’ve hired the law firm.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - The Cutter of Bish - 10-09-2020 07:33 AM
I would have liked to think that Marshall stuck around Wichita because he knew other big schools wouldn’t have given him control or allowed him to do things his way and build the program. That may still be true, but, the other side of having so much control is stuff like this, if true. That he can get away with it for some time at a place like that where, at another major program, he’d be on the curb by now.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - WhoseHouse? - 10-09-2020 08:14 AM
Wichita moving to a higher profile league might have been his undoing.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - bill dazzle - 10-09-2020 08:22 AM
If all this is true ... pathetic. GM is a talented and skilled coach in many areas (as most of us, I assume, would agree). But such behavior is unacceptable.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - The Cutter of Bish - 10-09-2020 08:32 AM
(10-09-2020 08:14 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote: Wichita moving to a higher profile league might have been his undoing.
It’ll really hit the fan if stuff emerges about his time in Winthrop.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - SlyFox - 10-09-2020 08:38 AM
The crazy thing about Ole Purple Face is that his players at Winthrop never let on to anyone about any abuse. His wife has been known to be over the top for well over a decade by her courtside antics. But the incidents documented in this story are far beyond what most of us who have followed his career since his Big South days could have anticipated.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - GoldenWarrior11 - 10-09-2020 11:44 AM
Troubling allegations but terrific reporting piece. There is no place for this in sports at any level. Upon its own internal review, I would be shocked, no pun intended, if there wasn’t some type of separation between Marshall and the school. Coaches that win and break the rules almost always get another opportunity due to their ability to have on-court success. However, when you look at physically and verbally assaulting players (and I look at Mike Rice as an example), there aren’t a whole lot of opportunities for guys like that which follow (Bobby Knight was in a different era and had different success).
I think this severely hurts Wichita State and the AAC. Wichita State was, and is, expected to be a top-4 program annually within the conference. Marshall has had seven NCAA Tournament appearances, a Sweet 16 and a Final Four at WSU. Before then, the tournament appearances and success were few and far between (8 appearances in history, 4 S16s in history, 1 F4 in history). The resources and support are absolutely better today than when Marshall began, no doubt. However, there would be big question if they could reach that level of success and consistency again.
Since joining the AAC, WSU has not had same level of success they had while in the Valley. They were likely not a tournament team this past year. If they go through a rebuild, that undoubtedly hurts the ceiling for the league. As a basketball-first program that is supposed to provide basketball value, that is not ideal by any stretch.
I wonder, and realizing the money for the AAC doesn’t make sense presently (otherwise it would have already happened), if the AAC looks at adding more non-football programs to help boost the basketball side. Between losing UConn and the troubles at Wichita State, basketball is taking a huge hit (and that hurts for Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston, more than anything).
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - bill dazzle - 10-09-2020 12:56 PM
As a long-time fan of Indiana and Vanderbilt, I cringed many times at the foul behavior and language of Bob Knight and Kevin Stallings. Those two men were, at times, brutal on their players. Stallings would actually (at least indirectly in post-game interviews) blame his players for losing games, while never accepting blame himself.
There is a certain "old school" — almost military — approach to the "pushing-and-yelling" coaching style that conflicts with current norms of 21st century society. Overall, I find it disgusting. I see coaches of this type as, to an extent, not having fully evolved as adults.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - jedclampett - 10-09-2020 01:04 PM
(10-09-2020 11:44 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: Troubling allegations but terrific reporting piece. There is no place for this in sports at any level.
You're absolutely right, and your former HC Al McGuire was one of those wonderful Head Coaches who got his players to give 110% without browbeating them at all. They loved Coach McGuire, and so did many of us who watched him on TV.
As for Wichita State and the AAC, they'll be ok. WSU will be able to replace Marshall with another great HC, and they'll probably be one of the upper-tier AAC programs for years to come.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - DFW HOYA - 10-09-2020 01:08 PM
Gregg Marshall kicked out of an exhibition game, against a Canadian team, no less:
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - The Cutter of Bish - 10-09-2020 01:15 PM
(10-09-2020 08:38 AM)SlyFox Wrote: The crazy thing about Ole Purple Face is that his players at Winthrop never let on to anyone about any abuse. His wife has been known to be over the top for well over a decade by her courtside antics. But the incidents documented in this story are far beyond what most of us who have followed his career since his Big South days could have anticipated.
One wonders if the behavior may have been more of a recent thing that started at WSU.
On a side note, what I can’t not think about after what happened at Penn State is how certain people stuck around or didn’t find other work despite success and then find out, years later, that the person was a monster, had problems, and it was widely known and rumored but never publicly disclosed, that it was a “known issue.” That stuff lies far beyond the school that hires and houses a person, in my opinion, because, especially in the NCAA, you report this crap, and benefit is provided if you roll on others.
So, on the other side of the career, maybe this wasn’t something Winthrop saw, but, wasn’t Marshall approached for other gigs? Did those schools catch wind of anything? Was it a badly kept secret the guy was not a fit for other major programs?
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - GoldenWarrior11 - 10-09-2020 01:15 PM
(10-09-2020 01:08 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: Gregg Marshall kicked out of an exhibition game, against a Canadian team, no less:
Warning signs were clearly there, which means what was administration doing (athletics and school) the past several years? Was this not a red flag? Were the players all transferring out not a red flag? Was the family behavior at games not a red flag? I'm not sure if a potential overhaul does not extend into the athletic department as well if all of these examples were just overlooked.
But, when you are winning and making money, all bets are off. Incredibly unfortunate.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - IWokeUpLikeThis - 10-09-2020 02:03 PM
(10-09-2020 01:15 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:(10-09-2020 01:08 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: Gregg Marshall kicked out of an exhibition game, against a Canadian team, no less:
Warning signs were clearly there, which means what was administration doing (athletics and school) the past several years? Was this not a red flag? Were the players all transferring out not a red flag? Was the family behavior at games not a red flag? I'm not sure if a potential overhaul does not extend into the athletic department as well if all of these examples were just overlooked.
But, when you are winning and making money, all bets are off. Incredibly unfortunate.
One of the articles mentions him suckerpunching Shaq Morris in 2015, and the incident of him trying to punch a track player in the head through the car window in 2016, so the athletic department knew of these incidents. They just didn't go public.
RE: Problems for Wichita St in hoops - bill dazzle - 10-09-2020 02:53 PM
(10-09-2020 01:04 PM)jedclampett Wrote:(10-09-2020 11:44 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: Troubling allegations but terrific reporting piece. There is no place for this in sports at any level.
You're absolutely right, and your former HC Al McGuire was one of those wonderful Head Coaches who got his players to give 110% without browbeating them at all. They loved Coach McGuire, and so did many of us who watched him on TV.
As for Wichita State and the AAC, they'll be ok. WSU will be able to replace Marshall with another great HC, and they'll probably be one of the upper-tier AAC programs for years to come.
Al McGuire was typically a gentleman on the bench. And even when he got hot, he kept it reasonable. One of my all-time favorite coaches.
I just watched the video of Marshall erupting ... insane. I tried to mentally visualize Rick Byrd (the now-retired and generally mild-mannered former Belmont coach) reacting in such a manner and almost chuckled. Would have been unthinkable to have seen from Rick.
If Marshall is fired, the hope is that WSU can get a strong coach on the "first try" because the AAC needs the Shockers — and its other top programs — to be as competitive as possible (at least until a final decision is made regarding expansion or no). Wichita still has some solid talent and needs to maintain that.