+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: College Sports and Conference Realignment (/forum-637.html)
+---- Thread: C-USA Split Rumor (/thread-907913.html)
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - JSchmack - 08-07-2021 12:29 PM
(08-05-2021 06:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote: The hard part for discontented FBS schools isn't the "FBS" part of "new FBS conference." It's the "new conference" part.
Which is why you end up with zany schemes like trying to wedge your grouping under the A-10 banner, when the A-10 DGAF about your FBS problems.
Well it's not ME trying to get FBS into the A-10. I'm the A-10 guy who thinks they should do their own thing, not just US! :D
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Florida tribe fan - 08-07-2021 01:02 PM
(08-07-2021 08:15 AM)balanced_view Wrote:(08-05-2021 04:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The NCAA Tournament auto-bid is a problem. But I think they'd grant it, it's not that big a deal. It would just mean one more play-in game for conference teams. First five instead of first four. That is if CBS would pay for the extra game credit.
The problem is who must ok the auto-bid. the NCAA is fighting for its life with the P5 in football, and basketball is riding shotgun for the ride. we know they have tried to push out as many as they can and gather all the Basketball spots for themselves over the last few years. the last things the NCAA needs is to give a group of unhappy members that already get a Basketball credit in a conference, a new basketball credit if they split, without the blessing of the big money makers.
The CFP is in flux at the moment, we dont know what the new version will look like, but the know who are the ones driving the decisions. again, without the blessing of the P5, a new conference that gets addition access to CFP and Tourney credits does not happen.
Passivity and submission will doubtless be indispensable tools for mid-majors seeking to shape the new competitive landscape.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - JSchmack - 08-07-2021 01:21 PM
(08-05-2021 06:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote: "You could start a new league at any time." Depends what you mean by "you". If "you" means an existing Division I conference that rounds up 8 existing FBS schools, then yes, you could start a new league at any time. If "you" means ODU, MArshall, Charlotte and 5 other schools, they'd have to wait 8 years to establish continuity as a Division I conference. You can't be an FBS conference without being a Division I conference first.
I think we're saying pretty close to the same thing here. I follow what you're saying based on the NCAA's poorly written rulebook.
The NCAA definitions of "conference" are different for FBS and non-FBS.
If exactly seven C-USA split for 2022-23, they'd instantly qualify as a Division I Conference, just not an FBS one.
But that renders the whole "eight year" thing moot, if "an existing conference can grab any 8 schools and become an FBS conference."
The second they're recognized as a non-FBS Conference, they'd just need 8 FBS teams to be an FBS conference: Their own 7 and one more.
At worst, it would be a one-year wait, if their new conference was recognized July 1, and they asked to be FBS with their 8th school on July 2, the response could be "Well, you need a year's notice to start playing, so you missed the deadline."
And the entire crux of my argument is that even if you have to wait eight years before the NCAA recognizes you as an official FBS conference... WHO CARES?!?!
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - johnbragg - 08-07-2021 02:11 PM
(08-07-2021 01:21 PM)JSchmack Wrote:(08-05-2021 06:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote: "You could start a new league at any time." Depends what you mean by "you". If "you" means an existing Division I conference that rounds up 8 existing FBS schools, then yes, you could start a new league at any time. If "you" means ODU, MArshall, Charlotte and 5 other schools, they'd have to wait 8 years to establish continuity as a Division I conference. You can't be an FBS conference without being a Division I conference first.
I think we're saying pretty close to the same thing here. I follow what you're saying based on the NCAA's poorly written rulebook.
The NCAA definitions of "conference" are different for FBS and non-FBS.
If exactly seven C-USA split for 2022-23, they'd instantly qualify as a Division I Conference, just not an FBS one.
They'd be a "conference", but they wouldn't have an automatic bud to the NCAA tournaments. Especially the men's basketball tournament, where the credit money comes from.
So they're a conference like the Great West was.
Quote:But that renders the whole "eight year" thing moot, if "an existing conference can grab any 8 schools and become an FBS conference."
The second they're recognized as a non-FBS Conference, they'd just need 8 FBS teams to be an FBS conference: Their own 7 and one more.
At worst, it would be a one-year wait, if their new conference was recognized July 1, and they asked to be FBS with their 8th school on July 2, the response could be "Well, you need a year's notice to start playing, so you missed the deadline."
And the entire crux of my argument is that even if you have to wait eight years before the NCAA recognizes you as an official FBS conference... WHO CARES?!?!
No automatic bids to NCAA tournaments, on basketball or in no revenue sports. That's a nonstarter
You can't save enough on travel to make up fir losing all NCAA tournament revenue.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - JSchmack - 08-07-2021 03:22 PM
(08-07-2021 02:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote: They'd be a "conference", but they wouldn't have an automatic bud to the NCAA tournaments. Especially the men's basketball tournament, where the credit money comes from.
So they're a conference like the Great West was.
1) That's the opposite of what you said in your previous post, and
2) Why wouldn't they qualify?
They'd need a rubber-stamp like the Big East got, while splitting in the same manner as the Big East:
18.5.1 Division I Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification into any Division I championship, a conference shall: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)(a) Have at least six member institutions classified in Division I in the sport in which automatic qualification is sought; and(b) Meet all requirements for conference automatic qualification into a Division I championship as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4.
Bylaw 31.3.4 is long and covers nothing besides the usual common sense rules like "you have to play 14 conference games minimum and determine a champion"
They'd be an AQ conference for NCAA championships within minutes.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - BruceMcF - 08-07-2021 04:08 PM
(08-07-2021 10:39 AM)ESE84 Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:34 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I think swapping programs with the SBC might gain some traction once it’s clear who the AAC loses and back fills with. By that point, maybe the pragmatists in both conferences will win the day, understanding that the the travel costs don’t way the benefits when you’re outside the top 5-6 conferences.
Way too many moving parts created by the Texas/Oklahoma move. Those programs who might get a call from the AAC or MWC will not want to advocate merger right at this moment.
Quite ... there are too many unknowns, but first and foremost:
(1) Does the Big12 take 2 or 4, and is BYU in the mix? That means the raid of the AAC can be from 1 to 4
(2) Does the AAC rebuilt to 10 or 12 ... that means the raid of CUSA can be from 0 to 5
There is absolutely no way to do a West+West, East+East reshuffle until (2) is sorted out.
It is a possibility that the aftershocks creates enough slack between the two conferences that a win-win reshuffle can be created. But it is not a certainty, since it could be the AAC loses one, and stand pat at 10... and even even if the AAC does do a rebuild, which exact reshuffle is a win-win depends on exactly which schools the AAC takes.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - johnbragg - 08-07-2021 04:30 PM
(08-07-2021 03:22 PM)JSchmack Wrote: [quote='johnbragg' pid='17543604' dateline='1628363518']
They'd be a "conference", but they wouldn't have an automatic bud to the NCAA tournaments. Especially the men's basketball tournament, where the credit money comes from.
So they're a conference like the Great West was.
1) That's the opposite of what you said in your previous post, and [/quite]
To be very specific, they'd be a conference that had not established continuity, and therefore did not get automatic bids to NCAA tournaments.
Quote:2) Why wouldn't they qualify?
No continuity
Quote:They'd need a rubber-stamp like the Big East got,
Yes, and why should they get that?
Quote:while splitting in the same manner as the Big East:
The 2005-13 Big East had a written plan (the Mutual Commitment Agreement) to split once the two groups established continuity under the old rules.
The only reason the Big East didn't split in 2005 was that neither side had continuity, old style.
CUSA doesn't have that. CUSA went to 14 and brought in all but 5 of their members under the current rules.
Quote:18.5.1 Division I Championship. To be eligible for automatic qualification into any Division I championship, a conference shall: (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)(a) Have at least six member institutions classified in Division I in the sport in which automatic qualification is sought; and(b) Meet all requirements for conference automatic qualification into a Division I championship as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4.Nope. 8 years
Bylaw 31.3.4 is long and covers nothing besides the usual common sense rules like "you have to play 14 conference games minimum and determine a champion"
They'd be an AQ conference for NCAA championships within minutes.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - BruceMcF - 08-07-2021 04:50 PM
(08-07-2021 01:21 PM)JSchmack Wrote:(08-05-2021 06:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote: "You could start a new league at any time." Depends what you mean by "you". If "you" means an existing Division I conference that rounds up 8 existing FBS schools, then yes, you could start a new league at any time. If "you" means ODU, MArshall, Charlotte and 5 other schools, they'd have to wait 8 years to establish continuity as a Division I conference. You can't be an FBS conference without being a Division I conference first.
I think we're saying pretty close to the same thing here. I follow what you're saying based on the NCAA's poorly written rulebook.
The NCAA definitions of "conference" are different for FBS and non-FBS.
If exactly seven C-USA split for 2022-23, they'd instantly qualify as a Division I Conference, just not an FBS one. ...
There is no such thing as instant qualification. However any of us read the balance of the rules, they still have to win the vote to be entered as a core conference, and with the power football conferences unanimously opposed, there is no reason to expect them to automatically win that vote.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Wedge - 08-07-2021 07:08 PM
(08-07-2021 04:08 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:39 AM)ESE84 Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:34 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I think swapping programs with the SBC might gain some traction once it’s clear who the AAC loses and back fills with. By that point, maybe the pragmatists in both conferences will win the day, understanding that the the travel costs don’t way the benefits when you’re outside the top 5-6 conferences.
Way too many moving parts created by the Texas/Oklahoma move. Those programs who might get a call from the AAC or MWC will not want to advocate merger right at this moment.
Quite ... there are too many unknowns, but first and foremost:
(1) Does the Big12 take 2 or 4, and is BYU in the mix? That means the raid of the AAC can be from 1 to 4
(2) Does the AAC rebuilt to 10 or 12 ... that means the raid of CUSA can be from 0 to 5
There is absolutely no way to do a West+West, East+East reshuffle until (2) is sorted out.
It is a possibility that the aftershocks creates enough slack between the two conferences that a win-win reshuffle can be created. But it is not a certainty, since it could be the AAC loses one, and stand pat at 10... and even even if the AAC does do a rebuild, which exact reshuffle is a win-win depends on exactly which schools the AAC takes.
Yup. If, for example, four AAC teams move to the Big 12, then the AAC is left with six full members who play FBS football, and the AAC has to add at least two new FBS full members to remain an FBS conference. The possibility of those two or four new FBS full members coming out of the SBC or CUSA is about 99.9 percent.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - BruceMcF - 08-07-2021 07:22 PM
(08-07-2021 07:08 PM)Wedge Wrote: Yup. If, for example, four AAC teams move to the Big 12, then the AAC is left with six full members who play FBS football, and the AAC has to add at least two new FBS full members to remain an FBS conference. The possibility of those two or four new FBS full members coming out of the SBC or CUSA is about 99.9 percent.
Quite, it could be two or four from CUSA and/or SBC ...
... or 3, if the AAC gets raided for 4 and there is a set of 3 adds that persuades Navy to stay. That would be 9 full time FBS members, which is fine with the rules.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - HHHERD - 08-07-2021 11:08 PM
I don't think the CUSA-E schools want to form an entirely new league, but force the Western Schools to the negotiation table. There is a rumor on the Sun Belt site that Appy has been approached by Marshall/ODU to consider joining them. What if the plan is this:
-CUSA-E plus UAB ask Appy, Coastal, GA Southern, and GA State to join them.
-CUSA-W would be down to six schools and SBC down to six schools. Leaving them no options but to merge.
Since neither league has an abundance of money they "might" find it more reasonable to sit down at the table, divide the assets up, and move on.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - ESE84 - 08-08-2021 08:30 AM
(08-07-2021 11:08 PM)HHHERD Wrote: I don't think the CUSA-E schools want to form an entirely new league, but force the Western Schools to the negotiation table. There is a rumor on the Sun Belt site that Appy has been approached by Marshall/ODU to consider joining them. What if the plan is this:
-CUSA-E plus UAB ask Appy, Coastal, GA Southern, and GA State to join them.
-CUSA-W would be down to six schools and SBC down to six schools. Leaving them no options but to merge.
Since neither league has an abundance of money they "might" find it more reasonable to sit down at the table, divide the assets up, and move on.
Both leagues would be left with the exit fees and NCAA tournament credits forfeited by the departing schools.
And those remaining schools would lawyer up to make certain all departing schools played by the bylaws in their conference, and the NCAA recognized their auto bid status going forward and agreements within the Football playoff revenues.
But it’s all moot until the AAC and MWC make their moves. Why would UAB withdraw from C-USA if they think Aresco’s remnants will come calling?
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - HerdZoned - 08-08-2021 10:28 AM
(08-07-2021 07:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:(08-07-2021 04:08 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:39 AM)ESE84 Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:34 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I think swapping programs with the SBC might gain some traction once it’s clear who the AAC loses and back fills with. By that point, maybe the pragmatists in both conferences will win the day, understanding that the the travel costs don’t way the benefits when you’re outside the top 5-6 conferences.
Way too many moving parts created by the Texas/Oklahoma move. Those programs who might get a call from the AAC or MWC will not want to advocate merger right at this moment.
Quite ... there are too many unknowns, but first and foremost:
(1) Does the Big12 take 2 or 4, and is BYU in the mix? That means the raid of the AAC can be from 1 to 4
(2) Does the AAC rebuilt to 10 or 12 ... that means the raid of CUSA can be from 0 to 5
There is absolutely no way to do a West+West, East+East reshuffle until (2) is sorted out.
It is a possibility that the aftershocks creates enough slack between the two conferences that a win-win reshuffle can be created. But it is not a certainty, since it could be the AAC loses one, and stand pat at 10... and even even if the AAC does do a rebuild, which exact reshuffle is a win-win depends on exactly which schools the AAC takes.
Yup. If, for example, four AAC teams move to the Big 12, then the AAC is left with six full members who play FBS football, and the AAC has to add at least two new FBS full members to remain an FBS conference. The possibility of those two or four new FBS full members coming out of the SBC or CUSA is about 99.9 percent.
Not to be arrogant or anything, but it won't be Appy or Coastal Carolina. Their Carnegie Classification will keep them out. Everyone in the AAC is an R1 OR R2. Both Appy and Coastal are Masters College or University. It was one of the sticking points that kept Marshall out in 2012-13. Marshall had been working on changing its classification but didn't get R2 status until March of 2019.
There are only 3 schools now that are not R1 or R2 in FBS, Appy State, Coastal Carolina (Sun Belt) and San Jose State (MNT West).
If anyone from the Sun Belt is taken, it would probably be GA State.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Troy_Fan_15 - 08-08-2021 11:05 AM
(08-08-2021 10:28 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:(08-07-2021 07:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:(08-07-2021 04:08 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:39 AM)ESE84 Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:34 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I think swapping programs with the SBC might gain some traction once it’s clear who the AAC loses and back fills with. By that point, maybe the pragmatists in both conferences will win the day, understanding that the the travel costs don’t way the benefits when you’re outside the top 5-6 conferences.
Way too many moving parts created by the Texas/Oklahoma move. Those programs who might get a call from the AAC or MWC will not want to advocate merger right at this moment.
Quite ... there are too many unknowns, but first and foremost:
(1) Does the Big12 take 2 or 4, and is BYU in the mix? That means the raid of the AAC can be from 1 to 4
(2) Does the AAC rebuilt to 10 or 12 ... that means the raid of CUSA can be from 0 to 5
There is absolutely no way to do a West+West, East+East reshuffle until (2) is sorted out.
It is a possibility that the aftershocks creates enough slack between the two conferences that a win-win reshuffle can be created. But it is not a certainty, since it could be the AAC loses one, and stand pat at 10... and even even if the AAC does do a rebuild, which exact reshuffle is a win-win depends on exactly which schools the AAC takes.
Yup. If, for example, four AAC teams move to the Big 12, then the AAC is left with six full members who play FBS football, and the AAC has to add at least two new FBS full members to remain an FBS conference. The possibility of those two or four new FBS full members coming out of the SBC or CUSA is about 99.9 percent.
Not to be arrogant or anything, but it won't be Appy or Coastal Carolina. Their Carnegie Classification will keep them out. Everyone in the AAC is an R1 OR R2. Both Appy and Coastal are Masters College or University. It was one of the sticking points that kept Marshall out in 2012-13. Marshall had been working on changing its classification but didn't get R2 status until March of 2019.
There are only 3 schools now that are not R1 or R2 in FBS, Appy State, Coastal Carolina (Sun Belt) and San Jose State (MNT West).
If anyone from the Sun Belt is taken, it would probably be GA State.
Troy has the same academic classification as App State and Coastal have of Masters College or University.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - herdfan129 - 08-08-2021 12:34 PM
(08-08-2021 11:05 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:(08-08-2021 10:28 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:(08-07-2021 07:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:(08-07-2021 04:08 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:(08-07-2021 10:39 AM)ESE84 Wrote: Way too many moving parts created by the Texas/Oklahoma move. Those programs who might get a call from the AAC or MWC will not want to advocate merger right at this moment.
Quite ... there are too many unknowns, but first and foremost:
(1) Does the Big12 take 2 or 4, and is BYU in the mix? That means the raid of the AAC can be from 1 to 4
(2) Does the AAC rebuilt to 10 or 12 ... that means the raid of CUSA can be from 0 to 5
There is absolutely no way to do a West+West, East+East reshuffle until (2) is sorted out.
It is a possibility that the aftershocks creates enough slack between the two conferences that a win-win reshuffle can be created. But it is not a certainty, since it could be the AAC loses one, and stand pat at 10... and even even if the AAC does do a rebuild, which exact reshuffle is a win-win depends on exactly which schools the AAC takes.
Yup. If, for example, four AAC teams move to the Big 12, then the AAC is left with six full members who play FBS football, and the AAC has to add at least two new FBS full members to remain an FBS conference. The possibility of those two or four new FBS full members coming out of the SBC or CUSA is about 99.9 percent.
Not to be arrogant or anything, but it won't be Appy or Coastal Carolina. Their Carnegie Classification will keep them out. Everyone in the AAC is an R1 OR R2. Both Appy and Coastal are Masters College or University. It was one of the sticking points that kept Marshall out in 2012-13. Marshall had been working on changing its classification but didn't get R2 status until March of 2019.
There are only 3 schools now that are not R1 or R2 in FBS, Appy State, Coastal Carolina (Sun Belt) and San Jose State (MNT West).
If anyone from the Sun Belt is taken, it would probably be GA State.
Troy has the same academic classification as App State and Coastal have of Masters College or University.
Yeah and that’s a weak argument anyway. Every school is designed to fit the needs of their communities. Troy is a fine University and I hate when some of these schools try to turn their nose up based on some academics ranking.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - HerdZoned - 08-08-2021 02:19 PM
(08-08-2021 12:34 PM)herdfan129 Wrote: Yeah and that’s a weak argument anyway. Every school is designed to fit the needs of their communities. Troy is a fine University and I hate when some of these schools try to turn their nose up based on some academics ranking.
Might be weak in what you want to say but its the presidents that make conference decisions and not the ADs. And they very much look at everything besides sports. I know Dr Gilbert is sports friendly but ultimately is job is to position Marshall the best he can and that includes the academic side of things.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - Side.Show.Joe - 08-08-2021 03:11 PM
I'm no fan of this split rumor, but since Marshall and ODU's leadership insist on making it a topic, I have a question. From among C-USA's Guaranteed bowl ties, and possible bowl ties, how exactly is a split from the western programs going to create better bowl opportunities for those that leave? In my opinion, the better bowls will still remain in the western footprint. Here is a breakdown....
BOWL SITUATION IN C-USA WEST
Guaranteed selections in the western footprint each season:
R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl (New Orleans, Louisiana) - Good bowl for the remaining C-USA members to keep. Has a $825,000 payout.
Guaranteed selections selected in or near the western footprint some seasons: Neither of these guaranteed bowls are in the eastern divisions footprint
Hawai’i Bowl (Honolulu, Hawai’i) - 2020, 2022, 2024 If Texas is too far Hawaii must be out of the question. Payout is $1.2million.
Radiance Technologies Independence Bowl (Shreveport, Louisiana) – 2021, 2025 In LA Tech's backyard... it stays with the west. Payout is $2.2million
Remaining selections from this group:
Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl (Fort Worth, Texas) When open this tie will go to one of the remaining C-USA teams, since traveling to Texas is too much of an expense for those eastern programs that choose to leave. It has a $1.35million payout.
New Mexico Bowl (Albuquerque, New Mexico) When open this tie will go to one of the remaining C-USA teams, since the distance is too much of an expense for those eastern programs that choose to leave. It has a $1,000,000 payout.
SERVPRO First Responder Bowl (Dallas, Texas) When open, this tie will go to one of the remaining C-USA teams, since traveling to Texas is too much of an expense for those eastern programs that choose to leave. It has a $824,000 payout too.
Tropical Smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl (Frisco, Texas) When open this tie will go to one of the remaining C-USA teams, since traveling to Texas is too much of an expense for those eastern programs that choose to leave. It has a $650,000 payout.
BOWL SITUATION IN C-USA EAST
Guaranteed selections near the eastern footprint each season:
Bahamas Bowl (Nassau, Bahamas) - The only guaranteed bowl in the est isn't even in America. The payout is $225,000
Remaining selections from this group:
LendingTree Bowl (Mobile, Alabama) Congratulations! This is a game the new eastern conference might land some seasons. It has a $1.5million payout.
Union Home Mortgage Gasparilla Bowl (Tampa, Florida) Congratulations! This is a game the new eastern conference might land some seasons. It has a $1.1million payout.
Boca Raton Bowl (Boca Raton, Florida) Congratulations! This is a game the new eastern conference might land some seasons. It has a $900,000 payout.
Cure Bowl (Orlando, Florida) Congratulations! This is a game the new eastern conference might land some seasons, and has a $573,000 payout.
Camellia Bowl (Montgomery, Alabama) Low bottom feeder bowl that pays $300,000. Enjoy it. I'm sure the eastern defectors could land here often.
Myrtle Beach Bowl (Myrtle Beach, South Carolina) Congratulations! This is a game the new eastern conference might land some seasons. there is no mention of a payout for this bowl. Must be pretty low.
These never go C-USA teams.
TicketSmarter Birmingham Bowl (Birmingham, Alabama) Never falls to a current C-USA 3.0 team
Fenway Bowl (Boston, Massachusetts) Won't fall to a C-USA team
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - JSchmack - 08-08-2021 03:57 PM
(08-07-2021 04:30 PM)johnbragg Wrote: No continuity
Nope. 8 years
Two things. Number one, you're saying "Nope" to the NCAA manual. That's really what the manual says.
Secondly, they'd have eight-years of continuity. If seven C-USA members formed their own league after this upcoming season:
14-15 - Year 1 - last to join WKU's first season in C-USA
15-16
16-17
17-18
18-19
19-20
20-21
21-22 - Year 8
22-23 - Split in half = both halves have continuity for NCAA Championship qualification.
They'd lose their status as an FBS conference by not having 8 members. But still be an NCAA AQ Conference in all other sports because they split together under the rules, just like the Big East/American split (only with both sides playing football, not just one).
They'd add a school and officially be playing "Independent FBS Football" with a new logo on the field in the eyes of the NCAA/CFP for some duration of time, while they ask to be an FBS Member Conference instead of a non-FBS member conference.
And my point is that time in between is not a reason to stop those seven from doing it. Because it could be as short as one day, or one year, or eight. No one is actually benefiting from their Group of Five status anyway, so who cares if you lose it for a little while? Because you'll be begging for table scraps from the CFP? Yeah, that's not any different than now.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - JSchmack - 08-08-2021 04:29 PM
(08-08-2021 03:11 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: I'm no fan of this split rumor, but since Marshall and ODU's leadership insist on making it a topic, I have a question. From among C-USA's Guaranteed bowl ties, and possible bowl ties, how exactly is a split from the western programs going to create better bowl opportunities for those that leave?
It's not. But that's not the reason for the split.
The talk of the Atlantic 10 playing some kind of role in any of this should tip you off as to what it's about.
C-USA is locked into the 8-9-10 FBS conference range, playing for CFP table scraps with no real access. Not a good TV deal, and the result of being "a Football Conference" is killing basketball programs in your league. Chasing CFP Money isn't working. The P5 is getting further and further away.
So aren't they better off making a better BASKETBALL LEAGUE that plays Group of Five football?
Who cares if you lose bowl access when the only bowls you have access to are the ones that lose money for the school? The payout is lower than the ticket guarantee you have to meet + travel expenses.
Build the best BASKETBALL conference, that's more geographically friendly, and -- oh by the way, you're also most of the best C-USA football programs as well.
C-USA isn't together with this group of 14 because they all decided they had the same mission and belong together. They're in the conference together because of two decades of changes and circumstance.
RE: C-USA Split Rumor - johnbragg - 08-08-2021 04:31 PM
(08-08-2021 03:57 PM)JSchmack Wrote:(08-07-2021 04:30 PM)johnbragg Wrote: No continuity
Nope. 8 years
Two things. Number one, you're saying "Nope" to the NCAA manual. That's really what the manual says.
No. According to the manual, conferences have continuity, not schools.
Secondly, they'd have eight-years of continuity. If seven C-USA members formed their own league after this upcoming season: [/quote]
Then the new leagues' continuity clock starts in 2022-23, qualifying for an autobid in 2031-32 if I counted my fingers correctly.
Quote:They'd lose their status as an FBS conference by not having 8 members. But still be an NCAA AQ Conference in all other sports because they split together under the rules, just like the Big East/American split (only with both sides playing football, not just one).
What rules? there are no rules in the NCAA manual that say anything about continuity being about schools playing together. Contiuinty is about a conference playing certain sports for a certain number of years.
(To be pedantic, the last I looked, single-sport conferences still use the old style rules.)
The Big East got an autobid in complete defiance of the current and then-current rules, because of our blue-blood status, because we had sympathy for being screwed over in realignment, and because we had a decent case if we had to go to court since we had relied on an elaborate plan to split under the pre-2011 continuity rules (the Mutual Commitment Agreement).