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UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Hokie Mark - 09-22-2020 09:56 AM
"...take a look at 2014 through 2016. The Noles averaged 11 wins every year, while the Knights averaged just 5 wins during that span (including a winless season). Now look at the last three seasons. UCF is the one winning over 11 wins per season, while FSU is only averaging six. Coincidence? I doubt it."
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2020/09/FSU-UCF-talent-wins-trend.html
"I'm certainly not suggesting that UCF caused Florida State's decline in football, but I do think the Knights have greatly benefitted from it."
__________
What do you guys think: is there a correlation here? A zero-sum game with FL high school recruiting, perhaps?
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Noise Penalty - 09-22-2020 10:03 AM
(09-22-2020 09:56 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: "...take a look at 2014 through 2016. The Noles averaged 11 wins every year, while the Knights averaged just 5 wins during that span (including a winless season). Now look at the last three seasons. UCF is the one winning over 11 wins per season, while FSU is only averaging six. Coincidence? I doubt it."
https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2020/09/FSU-UCF-talent-wins-trend.html
"I'm certainly not suggesting that UCF caused Florida State's decline in football, but I do think the Knights have greatly benefitted from it."
__________
What do you guys think: is there a correlation here? A zero-sum game with FL high school recruiting, perhaps?
Probably more to do with team culture. UCF has been a very tight team oriented culture focused on support and brotherhood. Lots of programs talk about this but UCF appears to walk the walk. FSU has tried to be the new Miami with flash and individuals taking front and center. they had a turnover backpack for God's sake.
If you are judging on star power they still have the talent. When you are judging on heart commitment....
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - The Knight Time - 09-22-2020 10:08 AM
Coaching matters. FSU thought they could just throw their 4 and 5 star guys on the field and they'd automatically win but that's not how it works. Meanwhile they haven't had a star QB since Winston and they have routinely produced one of the worst OLines in college football. And this has sustained from Fischer to Taggart to now Norvell. Their OLine has sucked for years and years.
And they've been bad at a time when the ACC has been Clemson and everyone else.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Lurkercat - 09-22-2020 10:09 AM
I don't think UCF has anything to do with their decline. I think it's due to Jimbo leaving. Their recruiting has dipped a bit to around the 20s though. Maybe that's allowed ucf to scoop up some guys they normally wouldn't have but ucfs recruiting hasn't really shown any insane jumps either. I'd say florida/georgia/alabama/lsu have benefitted more and helped contribute to their downfall
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - ArmoredUpKnight - 09-22-2020 10:25 AM
It’s a ridiculous statement. 2013 FSU won a national championship and UCF won a NY6 Fiesta Bowl.
This argument is selective stats at their finest.
The problem with FSU is they didn’t keep Jimbo. They hired a bum in Taggart. Norvel is taking over during a pandemic and a BLM social movement in the highly politicized state capital.
The state of Florida has enough talent to support a Big 4.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - MidknightWhiskey - 09-22-2020 10:56 AM
Jimbo was already out the door and didn't recruit well because of it. FSU's fall and UCF's rise are not related just coincidental. Florida is the #1 location for CFB recruits right now and is only growing as a state. FSU needs a full rebuild, not a quick fix. They need players completely committed that play for the team not themselves.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - MidknightWhiskey - 09-22-2020 10:57 AM
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Sideshow2313 - 09-22-2020 11:56 AM
(09-22-2020 10:57 AM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:
Love it
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - grapes - 09-22-2020 02:19 PM
What i've noticed is that ever since this conference was formed our schools in it have not only flourished but most importantly been able to maintain the momentum.
I think that alone is evidence in the major gap between us and the G4.
Seems like almost all of the G4 teams have major trouble sustaining success at the level we are doing now.
UCF is a great example, with them in the American they have truly changed the landscape of the top teams in Florida.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - AlwaysSunny - 09-22-2020 04:13 PM
All FSU needs is a decent coach and this becomes a nonstory.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Hokie Mark - 09-22-2020 09:41 PM
(09-22-2020 04:13 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote: All FSU needs is a decent coach and this becomes a nonstory.
Do you think Mike Norvell is that coach? You guys should know better than anyone...
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - sierrajip - 09-23-2020 03:32 AM
(09-22-2020 10:09 AM)Lurkercat Wrote: I don't think UCF has anything to do with their decline. I think it's due to Jimbo leaving. Their recruiting has dipped a bit to around the 20s though. Maybe that's allowed ucf to scoop up some guys they normally wouldn't have but ucfs recruiting hasn't really shown any insane jumps either. I'd say florida/georgia/alabama/lsu have benefitted more and helped contribute to their downfall
I can't wait for Texas AM finds out their mistake paying out so much for this coach. Fisher was just another great recruiter but not so much on the coaching side. I believe that is why Bowden liked him. Bowden was the same type coach.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - sierrajip - 09-23-2020 03:38 AM
(09-22-2020 04:13 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote: All FSU needs is a decent coach and this becomes a nonstory.
Easier said than done. I have a feeling that FSU will be going through another coach or two to get back to some semblance of their old team.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - BearcatInFL - 09-23-2020 06:22 AM
(09-22-2020 02:19 PM)grapes Wrote: What i've noticed is that ever since this conference was formed our schools in it have not only flourished but most importantly been able to maintain the momentum.
I think that alone is evidence in the major gap between us and the G4.
Seems like almost all of the G4 teams have major trouble sustaining success at the level we are doing now.
UCF is a great example, with them in the American they have truly changed the landscape of the top teams in Florida.
With UCF, Memphis and Cincinnati at the top and some really good teams just below, we have a really good league. It appears we're finally starting to get recognized.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Z-Fly - 09-23-2020 06:53 AM
(09-22-2020 09:41 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(09-22-2020 04:13 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote: All FSU needs is a decent coach and this becomes a nonstory.
Do you think Mike Norvell is that coach? You guys should know better than anyone...
I think he's good, but building and maintaining are two different things. FSU needs a builder. Maybe that is Mike. Maybe it's not. I don't believe he's ever had this type of challenge.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - goodknightfl - 09-23-2020 08:02 AM
What has happened at UCF and FSU have nothing to do with each other. If and when FSU gets the right coach, things will change pretty quickly
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - The Knight Time - 09-23-2020 08:07 AM
(09-23-2020 06:53 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:(09-22-2020 09:41 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(09-22-2020 04:13 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote: All FSU needs is a decent coach and this becomes a nonstory.
Do you think Mike Norvell is that coach? You guys should know better than anyone...
I think he's good, but building and maintaining are two different things. FSU needs a builder. Maybe that is Mike. Maybe it's not. I don't believe he's ever had this type of challenge.
That's the issue, FSU and its' fans are still delusional and think there's an instant Bobby Bowden still out there somewhere that can come in and win in Year 2.
While doing things right.
Fisher was there for 7 years and had decent success but recruited what he thought the fanbase wanted - 4 and 5 star egomaniacs - and secretly pulled every string to keep them eligible. After he left it came out just how shady FSU's program was with regards to academics and most of these kids should have been ineligible without Fisher's intervention.
Taggart comes in, despite being very mediocre, and tries to clean the program up. He gets 2 years and he's out.
Now Norvell is there and he can either try to recruit kids who can actually pass grades, or just become another Fisher that cuts corners and takes the next job in a few years. Either way he'll be expected to win by next season and I highly doubt that will happen.
UCF brought in Frost and while short lived, went out and found a coach that will continue that aggressive offensive mindset, even though CJH was far from the "sexy" choice. There were rumors that Kevin Sumlin was being hired and that would have been a disaster. CJH is also a stickler for recruiting good kids who go to class and make grades.
FSU's culture as a program is in crisis. UCF's is not. That's the difference.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Lurkercat - 09-23-2020 08:50 AM
(09-23-2020 03:32 AM)sierrajip Wrote:(09-22-2020 10:09 AM)Lurkercat Wrote: I don't think UCF has anything to do with their decline. I think it's due to Jimbo leaving. Their recruiting has dipped a bit to around the 20s though. Maybe that's allowed ucf to scoop up some guys they normally wouldn't have but ucfs recruiting hasn't really shown any insane jumps either. I'd say florida/georgia/alabama/lsu have benefitted more and helped contribute to their downfall
I can't wait for Texas AM finds out their mistake paying out so much for this coach. Fisher was just another great recruiter but not so much on the coaching side. I believe that is why Bowden liked him. Bowden was the same type coach.
I just looked up his salary and good Lord... 7 million lol. Some of these coaches are being paid insane amounts. Purdue of all places pays their coach 6 million.... If anything kills this sport it'll be things like this.
Also, I think Jimbo is finding out it's a little harder to compete with the sec than the acc
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - sierrajip - 09-24-2020 03:58 AM
(09-23-2020 08:50 AM)Lurkercat Wrote:(09-23-2020 03:32 AM)sierrajip Wrote:(09-22-2020 10:09 AM)Lurkercat Wrote: I don't think UCF has anything to do with their decline. I think it's due to Jimbo leaving. Their recruiting has dipped a bit to around the 20s though. Maybe that's allowed ucf to scoop up some guys they normally wouldn't have but ucfs recruiting hasn't really shown any insane jumps either. I'd say florida/georgia/alabama/lsu have benefitted more and helped contribute to their downfall
I can't wait for Texas AM finds out their mistake paying out so much for this coach. Fisher was just another great recruiter but not so much on the coaching side. I believe that is why Bowden liked him. Bowden was the same type coach.
I just looked up his salary and good Lord... 7 million lol. Some of these coaches are being paid insane amounts. Purdue of all places pays their coach 6 million.... If anything kills this sport it'll be things like this.
Also, I think Jimbo is finding out it's a little harder to compete with the sec than the acc
He knew. He was looking for his last payout and he got it.
RE: UCF/FSU trending in opposite directions - Sideshow2313 - 09-24-2020 09:14 AM
(09-24-2020 03:58 AM)sierrajip Wrote:(09-23-2020 08:50 AM)Lurkercat Wrote:(09-23-2020 03:32 AM)sierrajip Wrote:(09-22-2020 10:09 AM)Lurkercat Wrote: I don't think UCF has anything to do with their decline. I think it's due to Jimbo leaving. Their recruiting has dipped a bit to around the 20s though. Maybe that's allowed ucf to scoop up some guys they normally wouldn't have but ucfs recruiting hasn't really shown any insane jumps either. I'd say florida/georgia/alabama/lsu have benefitted more and helped contribute to their downfall
I can't wait for Texas AM finds out their mistake paying out so much for this coach. Fisher was just another great recruiter but not so much on the coaching side. I believe that is why Bowden liked him. Bowden was the same type coach.
I just looked up his salary and good Lord... 7 million lol. Some of these coaches are being paid insane amounts. Purdue of all places pays their coach 6 million.... If anything kills this sport it'll be things like this.
Also, I think Jimbo is finding out it's a little harder to compete with the sec than the acc
He knew. He was looking for his last payout and he got it.
I honestly don't think taking high-end HC jobs is about competing for its about $ and the golden parachute you get when you fail.