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Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Todor - 08-25-2020 08:55 PM

I mean potential, most likely in a realignment scenario, probably as a last resort, and still assuming all the pieces could fall into place just right. Not meaning to cause a ruckus or start fights or simply go off into total fantasy world, ala the whole Colorado Mesa idea that just couldn't die lol.

But I was thinking about the Dixie State BSC thread and about the WAC will be gone if its just a D2 stepping stone and nothing more. And the FBS talk that seems to be pretty consistent from various conference constituents. For FBS to happen, it couldnt be all FCS move ups. Some existing programs would have to join.

So I tried to think of even ONE current D1 member that could even conceivably end up in the WAC and I really couldn't think of even one. But then I thought to myself, well...what if this happened or that happened then and all of a sudden I did think of some scenarios where some schools might want or have to take a look at the WAC. Its mostly a "how could it conceivably happen". FWIW...

UTEP-- If a realignment left them without their Texas travel partners and the MWC didn't want to or couldn't take them. If CUSA " aligned them out" their options are not abundant.

Any Big Sky school that may feel it's the right time when/if the WAC is able to return to FBS. 5 years down the road, who knows? Not the whole conference mind you,, but just say one school. Possible? Not so far fetched.

Hawaii- if the MW grew or evolved and UH football no longer fit, then what? If the WAC was FBS or coming close to having it, do they have a better option? See my BYU notes for an example.

BYU- before you scoff too hard, their independent football status could come to a screeching halt if one by one all of the other indys join up elsewhere or conferences change their scheduling and leave them with no chance for a schedule. If the Big 12 won't take them and they don't want to have all east coast opponents, their options would be limited. An FBS WAC would probably be way down in their list of desired homes, but like I said, what if the ability to schedule as an Indy is just gone?

San Diego-if they really wanted FBS and the WAC was their best option. Not likely, but what if FBS started getting too full and the NCAA announced new rules going forward to be able to join? Given a now or almost never type of scenario, schools might do what would not have been done if left alone. Their sheer isolation in the Pioneer League is probably the only reason I even thought of them though.

4 Dakota schools- if WAC could achieve FBS, it could be with those 4 moving up all at once and providing a strong foundation. IF they wanted FBS and move as a pack like they have in the past, where else would they go? Very few options for them as a group.

Tulsa-if the AAC decided they were too small, too small time or just realigned them out. This would be the only possible way. Tulsa would not want the WAC as things stand, even with FBS,, but they are used to the travel and were in it before (I know, different members then) But they ARE in that fringe area geographically where conferences are getting sparse. If they were further east, I'd not include them at all.

Beyond football, Denver could conceivably return if the Summit leans too far east, or just reverses course in the Summit.

And last and certainly least, there are always some Southland schools like Abilene Christian or others who feel like moving up.

Of course, there are tons of FCS scenarios as well. I didn't really get into them here.

And what if the WAC was poised to return to FBS and just flat out told told some schools like BYU and Hawaii that may want in just for football that its all sports or none, knowing that they are in a pinch. Is it possible that one day schools may actually need the WAC more than WAC needs them?

Thanks for bearing with me with this long post.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - NMSUPistolPete - 08-25-2020 09:19 PM

If the WAC were to restart FBS football, I think the new founding members would be from the Southland, and maybe Summit and Big Sky. If the WAC were to actually develop a stable FBS conference then maybe the WAC could court Texas schools from the Sun Belt and CUSA. But the WAC would need at least four FBS committed schools from the FCS level first plus NMSU and Tarleton State to get things started.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Todor - 08-25-2020 09:40 PM

I did have an FCS scenario in mind with Northern Arizona, Southern Utah, Dixie of course, and maybe Weber. Talk about having a real core all of a sudden. That could potentially be a geographic as well as a football move.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - TexanFan - 08-25-2020 09:53 PM

I know Sam Houston has discussed FBS but I don’t know how serious they might be. They might be the only potential SLC school for an FBS move.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Bobcat2013 - 08-25-2020 10:15 PM

(08-25-2020 09:53 PM)TexanFan Wrote:  I know Sam Houston has discussed FBS but I don’t know how serious they might be. They might be the only potential SLC school for an FBS move.

If they wanted to it wouldve happened by now. I dont wanna say their window has closed but its being held open by a toothpick. They dont have the support or facilities. I wanna say they averaged less than 5k fans last year. Surprising with all the success theyve had in the last decade.


Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - chrisattsu - 08-25-2020 10:45 PM

I think Incarnate Word would consider it. They left D2 for the Southland because they wanted to enhance their brand and get out of playing in "the hinterlands". Moving to the Southland didnt improve that later much. However joining other private schools in Seattle,Phoenix, and California helps with that.

Like IT has been saying, our Chancellor is big on the the WAC. If the league stays basketball focused, who better than Corpus Christi. They're an odd fit in the Southland anyway and offer a regional rival for RGV


I struggle with the western schools to know the politics and who is looking for a change. However, I think it depends on what the end result of the league is -- FCS is not likely to get Autobid schools to move on unless you sell them on easier chance to the tourney, better rivals or more money.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - IWokeUpLikeThis - 08-25-2020 10:54 PM

Your intuition is correct — no current D1 member would join the WAC unless they had no other option.

The reason being that while the WAC is the 16th or so best conference in basketball, it’s the 31st best conference in long-term security ahead of only the MEAC. Every WAC school has a more sensible financial option that could conceivably come to fruition one day.

The next WAC member will come from D2: West Texas A&M.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - theultimateaggie - 08-25-2020 11:59 PM

(08-25-2020 10:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Your intuition is correct — no current D1 member would join the WAC unless they had no other option.

The reason being that while the WAC is the 16th or so best conference in basketball, it’s the 31st best conference in long-term security ahead of only the MEAC. Every WAC school has a more sensible financial option that could conceivably come to fruition one day.

The next WAC member will come from D2: West Texas A&M.

I hope so. West Texas A&M would be a really good get for the WAC.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - joeben69 - 08-26-2020 01:37 AM

(08-25-2020 11:59 PM)theultimateaggie Wrote:  
(08-25-2020 10:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Your intuition is correct — no current D1 member would join the WAC unless they had no other option.

The reason being that while the WAC is the 16th or so best conference in basketball, it’s the 31st best conference in long-term security ahead of only the MEAC. Every WAC school has a more sensible financial option that could conceivably come to fruition one day.

The next WAC member will come from D2: West Texas A&M.

I hope so. West Texas A&M would be a really good get for the WAC.

i would add Angelo St to pair with West Texas A&M would also be good for the WAC.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - PojoaquePosse - 08-26-2020 09:08 AM

I hate these conference "what if" threads. They are so ridiculous. I can't believe I'm jumping into the fray. But no one is including UMASS, Liberty or UCONN in this conversation. Our AD has mentioned them by name in talking about WAC football.

UMASS
Liberty
UCONN
NMSU
Dixie State
Tarleton State

There are your 6 schools. Beggars can't be choosers regarding a "western" conference.

Two more thoughts. We have no Dixie State posters, so we have very little info on them. But I suspect they were sold what ever Hurd sold to Tarleton regarding FB. So if Tarleton's ultimate goal is FBS, then I have to believe that is Dixie's goal as well, which leads me to my next thought.

The move from D2 to FCS to FBS is huge. These D2 football stadiums can't even hold the minimum FBS attendance of 15k. And their attendance is like 5k or less today (there was a lot of talk about this in a prior thread and folks produced D2 attendance numbers). How the heck are these D2 teams going to grow their stadiums and attendance to 15-20k, which is what FBS requires?

I think the WAC is looking at FCS football and FBS is just a pipe dream. FCS may be a pipe dream as well.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Bobcat2013 - 08-26-2020 09:19 AM

(08-26-2020 09:08 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I hate these conference "what if" threads. They are so ridiculous. I can't believe I'm jumping into the fray. But no one is including UMASS, Liberty or UCONN in this conversation. Our AD has mentioned them by name in talking about WAC football.

UMASS
Liberty
UCONN
NMSU
Dixie State
Tarleton State

There are your 6 schools. Beggars can't be choosers regarding a "western" conference.

Two more thoughts. We have no Dixie State posters, so we have very little info on them. But I suspect they were sold what ever Hurd sold to Tarleton regarding FB. So if Tarleton's ultimate goal is FBS, then I have to believe that is Dixie's goal as well, which leads me to my next thought.

The move from D2 to FCS to FBS is huge. These D2 football stadiums can't even hold the minimum FBS attendance of 15k. And their attendance is like 5k or less today (there was a lot of talk about this in a prior thread and folks produced D2 attendance numbers). How the heck are these D2 teams going to grow their stadiums and attendance to 15-20k, which is what FBS requires?

I think the WAC is looking at FCS football and FBS is just a pipe dream. FCS may be a pipe dream as well.

For sure, but it is fun to see the hoops some posters go through to try and fit schools they want in the WAC.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - PojoaquePosse - 08-26-2020 09:21 AM

(08-26-2020 09:19 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(08-26-2020 09:08 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I hate these conference "what if" threads. They are so ridiculous. I can't believe I'm jumping into the fray. But no one is including UMASS, Liberty or UCONN in this conversation. Our AD has mentioned them by name in talking about WAC football.

UMASS
Liberty
UCONN
NMSU
Dixie State
Tarleton State

There are your 6 schools. Beggars can't be choosers regarding a "western" conference.

Two more thoughts. We have no Dixie State posters, so we have very little info on them. But I suspect they were sold what ever Hurd sold to Tarleton regarding FB. So if Tarleton's ultimate goal is FBS, then I have to believe that is Dixie's goal as well, which leads me to my next thought.

The move from D2 to FCS to FBS is huge. These D2 football stadiums can't even hold the minimum FBS attendance of 15k. And their attendance is like 5k or less today (there was a lot of talk about this in a prior thread and folks produced D2 attendance numbers). How the heck are these D2 teams going to grow their stadiums and attendance to 15-20k, which is what FBS requires?

I think the WAC is looking at FCS football and FBS is just a pipe dream. FCS may be a pipe dream as well.

For sure, but it is fun to see the hoops some posters go through to try and fit schools they want in the WAC.

It's not fun. It is repetitive and a waste of time. I feel dirty for posting in this thread.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - DoubleRSU - 08-26-2020 10:49 AM

UMass, UConn, and Liberty haven’t had any issues putting together an independent schedule, why would they want to be tied up with conference games with Dixie and Tarleton? Which network is going to sign this conference to a TV deal?


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - PojoaquePosse - 08-26-2020 11:29 AM

(08-26-2020 10:49 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  UMass, UConn, and Liberty haven’t had any issues putting together an independent schedule, why would they want to be tied up with conference games with Dixie and Tarleton? Which network is going to sign this conference to a TV deal?

Ummm...this thread was started with the possibility that BYU would have problems scheduling as an Indy and that Hawaii and Tulsa could be kicked out of their conferences.

Back to your take. There are many benefits to being in a conference. And if Liberty were not having issues with a schedule, why are they scheduling NMSU twice a season? UMass is also starting to appear on NMSU's schedules. Other than Army, ND and BYU, I think it is difficult scheduling as an Indy.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - CrimsonPhantom - 08-26-2020 11:58 AM

This thread has replaced one of the older expansion thread that was mentioned here as being allowed to exist on the main WAC board. The rules at the link still apply.

If a third expansion discussion thread appears, I will close it and remove it from the main board.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Todor - 08-26-2020 03:38 PM

(08-26-2020 09:08 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  I hate these conference "what if" threads. They are so ridiculous. I can't believe I'm jumping into the fray. But no one is including UMASS, Liberty or UCONN in this conversation. Our AD has mentioned them by name in talking about WAC football.

UMASS
Liberty
UCONN
NMSU
Dixie State
Tarleton State

There are your 6 schools. Beggars can't be choosers regarding a "western" conference.

Two more thoughts. We have no Dixie State posters, so we have very little info on them. But I suspect they were sold what ever Hurd sold to Tarleton regarding FB. So if Tarleton's ultimate goal is FBS, then I have to believe that is Dixie's goal as well, which leads me to my next thought.

The move from D2 to FCS to FBS is huge. These D2 football stadiums can't even hold the minimum FBS attendance of 15k. And their attendance is like 5k or less today (there was a lot of talk about this in a prior thread and folks produced D2 attendance numbers). How the heck are these D2 teams going to grow their stadiums and attendance to 15-20k, which is what FBS requires?

I think the WAC is looking at FCS football and FBS is just a pipe dream. FCS may be a pipe dream as well.

WAC leadership keeps mentioning FBS. personally, if FBS is even remotely in the cards (their words, not mine) I see it through existing turmoil in the existing structure of schools more than simply more schools moving up. But either is possible and I'm not sure which is more likely since turmoil through realignment and or structural changes are hard to predict.

On that note, when the old WAC was around, if one were to predict-

UVU moving from JUCO straight to D1,
Chicago State joining the WAC,
UMKC leaving the Summit,
Seattle rejoining D1 after decades,
NMSU not finding a home elsewhere and sticking around as a football Indy,
Grand Canyon becoming the first for profit D1 one, AND
UT Pan Am becoming a new instittion and merging in some existing NAIA programs, coaches and athletes, while getting a new name and mascot...

Meanwhile, everything falls into place perfectly in synch and then conference goes on, pretty much business as usual.

And imagine prediciting that in the midst of all of this, the league rose (even with Chicago States rock bottom RPI) from near the bottom half of basketball conferences to be near the middle.

And then, with one football member, they would begin to draw new schools with football while conference leadership even dares to bring up talk of FBS.

THAT, folks, is a tale that would have been laughed off any message board, and most likely pushed into the realm of pure fantasy and moderated out of existence. And that is a fact.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Bobcat2013 - 08-26-2020 03:55 PM

Youre right, anyone who wouldve proposed that would be looked at like we look at DavidSt and Nodak. The fact that all of those events took place is crazy but is also why the WAC is percieved as it is. Regardless the WAC did what it needed to do to survive and might end up okay.


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Lopes87 - 08-26-2020 04:01 PM

Liberty
UMass
UConn
NMSU

I think you could give BYU and UTEP a Boise State like setup to join.

DSU
TSU

there is 8 right there.

I have cured the WAC FBS issue. lol


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - gleadley - 08-26-2020 04:03 PM

(08-26-2020 04:01 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  Liberty
UMass
UConn
NMSU

I think you could give BYU and UTEP a Boise State like setup to join.

DSU
TSU

there is 8 right there.

I have cured the WAC FBS issue. lol

Why hasn't anyone thought of GCU starting football? 05-stirthepot05-stirthepot05-stirthepot


RE: Potential existing D1 members to join the WAC - Todor - 08-26-2020 04:23 PM

(08-26-2020 04:03 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(08-26-2020 04:01 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  Liberty
UMass
UConn
NMSU

I think you could give BYU and UTEP a Boise State like setup to join.

DSU
TSU

there is 8 right there.

I have cured the WAC FBS issue. lol

Why hasn't anyone thought of GCU starting football? 05-stirthepot05-stirthepot05-stirthepot

They have, but everyone know how tight money is around there.