(08-22-2020 01:55 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 12:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-18-2020 05:08 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Re-adding Marshall would be like re-marrying your ex-wife.

Which would make re-re-adding Marshal like re-re-marrying your ex-ex-wife.

Sometimes the third time is NOT charmed: rather, sometimes the definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different result THIS time.

C’mon, you all can’t blame us for leaving for a far better (at the time) conference. More bowls, more money (again, at the time), more aligned with us culturally... etc... There is a big part of me that wished we hadnt moved, and a part of me that is glad we did. Ultimately was it the correct move? Eh, probably. But everything eventually regresses to the means and the g5 if it isn’t now, soon will be held all in the same regard.

You’d be surprised regarding the cultural differences from Huntington to Athens. I live in Huntington but work in Gallipolis and Chillicothe, OH. The difference is amazing.

(08-22-2020 10:48 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 02:04 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  And coincidentally ESPN and the midweek games are a huge reason these schools want no part of the MAC. ...

No, JMU was interested in joining the MAC when the MAC needed a 14th lined up in case UMass exercised its "all in" option.

That it wasn't merely a case of "ANY conference to get into FBS and then we can move up" is established by the fact that it had an opening in the SBC that it did not take up.

As far as ODU, as far as the Division it would be in (online map drive time, roadwork and your willingness to risk your life may result in different actual trip times), and assuming that the #14 is JMU:

(08-22-2020 11:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 01:55 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 12:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-18-2020 05:08 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Re-adding Marshall would be like re-marrying your ex-wife.

Which would make re-re-adding Marshal like re-re-marrying your ex-ex-wife.

Sometimes the third time is NOT charmed: rather, sometimes the definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different result THIS time.

C’mon, you all can’t blame us for leaving for a far better (at the time) conference. More bowls, more money (again, at the time), more aligned with us culturally... etc... There is a big part of me that wished we hadnt moved, and a part of me that is glad we did. Ultimately was it the correct move? Eh, probably. But everything eventually regresses to the means and the g5 if it isn’t now, soon will be held all in the same regard.

You’d be surprised regarding the cultural differences from Huntington to Athens. I live in Huntington but work in Gallipolis and Chillicothe, OH. The difference is amazing.

Every argument Bruce has made against Marshall is emotion-based. Bitter feelings, divorces, ex-wives, etc.

Every argument for Marshall is fact-based. Fan support, MAC golden age, etc.

If Marshall was ever open to rejoin, university presidents would make a fact-based decision.

(08-22-2020 10:48 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 02:04 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  And coincidentally ESPN and the midweek games are a huge reason these schools want no part of the MAC. ...

No, JMU was interested in joining the MAC when the MAC needed a 14th lined up in case UMass exercised its "all in" option.

That it wasn't merely a case of "ANY conference to get into FBS and then we can move up" is established by the fact that it had an opening in the SBC that it did not take up.

(08-22-2020 11:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Every argument Bruce has made against Marshall is emotion-based. Bitter feelings, divorces, ex-wives, etc.

Every argument for Marshall is fact-based. Fan support, MAC golden age, etc.

If Marshall was ever open to rejoin, university presidents would make a fact-based decision.

(08-22-2020 11:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 01:55 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 12:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-18-2020 05:08 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Re-adding Marshall would be like re-marrying your ex-wife.

Which would make re-re-adding Marshal like re-re-marrying your ex-ex-wife.

Sometimes the third time is NOT charmed: rather, sometimes the definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different result THIS time.

C’mon, you all can’t blame us for leaving for a far better (at the time) conference. More bowls, more money (again, at the time), more aligned with us culturally... etc... There is a big part of me that wished we hadnt moved, and a part of me that is glad we did. Ultimately was it the correct move? Eh, probably. But everything eventually regresses to the means and the g5 if it isn’t now, soon will be held all in the same regard.

You’d be surprised regarding the cultural differences from Huntington to Athens. I live in Huntington but work in Gallipolis and Chillicothe, OH. The difference is amazing.

Every argument Bruce has made against Marshall is emotion-based. Bitter feelings, divorces, ex-wives, etc.

(08-23-2020 07:00 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 11:58 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 01:55 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(08-22-2020 12:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-18-2020 05:08 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Re-adding Marshall would be like re-marrying your ex-wife.

Which would make re-re-adding Marshal like re-re-marrying your ex-ex-wife.

Sometimes the third time is NOT charmed: rather, sometimes the definition of insanity is repeating the same actions over and over and expecting a different result THIS time.

C’mon, you all can’t blame us for leaving for a far better (at the time) conference. More bowls, more money (again, at the time), more aligned with us culturally... etc... There is a big part of me that wished we hadnt moved, and a part of me that is glad we did. Ultimately was it the correct move? Eh, probably. But everything eventually regresses to the means and the g5 if it isn’t now, soon will be held all in the same regard.

You’d be surprised regarding the cultural differences from Huntington to Athens. I live in Huntington but work in Gallipolis and Chillicothe, OH. The difference is amazing.

Every argument Bruce has made against Marshall is emotion-based. Bitter feelings, divorces, ex-wives, etc.

You can't seriously lay the "divorce" and "ex-wife" at my feet, that was Steve Emu's analogy. I was just pointing out that it's not the first divorce.

My argument "against" Marshall, if you go actually looking for facts to back up the claim, is that people often over-state how big a deal the footprint of the CUSA is for Marshall, because in conference with eight conference games and seven team divisions, that's only one football away trip to the Western Division every year, and the Eastern Division is a pretty good home for Marshall, with ODU, WKU, MTSU and Charlotte a good cluster for Marshall and FIU/FAU giving Marshall an annual trip to South Florida recruiting grounds.

I understand how hard it is to start with the pigeonhole that I have never done anything but make emotional arguments against Marshall and then to recall the actual details of that argument, which doesn't comfortably fit into the pigeonhole.

It certainly is a fact that Marshall proved to be footloose in their second try at the conference, only hanging around eight years, and since MAC Presidents would be making a fact based decision, it would not be surprising if some MAC Presidents were leery of making a permanent invitation to a #14 in order to accommodate a #13 that might prove to be footloose again.

But that is not an emotional argument, it's cold blooded risk management, and indeed it is not me saying that the Presidents should reject Marshal for that reason, but just making the point that it's an issue they will certainly consider. And there is no telling how the balance of the risk assessment goes without a crystal ball to inform us of what other risks the conference faces at that hypothetical future date.

(08-24-2020 11:10 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote:  I want to point out that Marshall does in fact spend quite a bit more on travel than a couple MAC peer schools that lay close to Marshall geographically wise. According to the website posted below...

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/c-usa/marshall-university

-Marshall spent 5.5 million dollars on travel/game expenses.
-Ohio U. spent 2.9 million
-Miami spent 3.2 million

So even with 1 cross over game to the west a year Marshall is still spending 2 million more dollars a year on travel in CUSA compared to those MAC schools. That’s a lot of money for a G5 school like Marshall. I have no idea if the presidents would ever vote us back in or not, but you could see why Marshall would be interested in gaining membership due to financial reasons.

(08-24-2020 05:41 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 11:10 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote:  I want to point out that Marshall does in fact spend quite a bit more on travel than a couple MAC peer schools that lay close to Marshall geographically wise. According to the website posted below...

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/c-usa/marshall-university

-Marshall spent 5.5 million dollars on travel/game expenses.
-Ohio U. spent 2.9 million
-Miami spent 3.2 million

So even with 1 cross over game to the west a year Marshall is still spending 2 million more dollars a year on travel in CUSA compared to those MAC schools. That’s a lot of money for a G5 school like Marshall. I have no idea if the presidents would ever vote us back in or not, but you could see why Marshall would be interested in gaining membership due to financial reasons.

Yes, but a good part of that is because CUSA hasn't paid much attention to organizing their scheduling of the subsidy sports to reduce the travel cost. Working within the CUSA to be a bit less demanding in the travel expenses they place upon member schools could trim that by a noticeable amount ... as in $1m+.

I haven't followed it closely, but I believe that an effort along those lines is already underway.

I have nothing in particular against the MAC accepting Marshall back in, but if they do I would be very strongly in favor of JMU being the #14, since at somewhere around 4hrs drive apart Marshall and JMU would be feasible for travel partner scheduling.

(08-24-2020 06:34 PM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 05:41 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(08-24-2020 11:10 AM)HTOWN_HERD Wrote:  I want to point out that Marshall does in fact spend quite a bit more on travel than a couple MAC peer schools that lay close to Marshall geographically wise. According to the website posted below...

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org/fbs/c-usa/marshall-university

-Marshall spent 5.5 million dollars on travel/game expenses.
-Ohio U. spent 2.9 million
-Miami spent 3.2 million

So even with 1 cross over game to the west a year Marshall is still spending 2 million more dollars a year on travel in CUSA compared to those MAC schools. That’s a lot of money for a G5 school like Marshall. I have no idea if the presidents would ever vote us back in or not, but you could see why Marshall would be interested in gaining membership due to financial reasons.

Yes, but a good part of that is because CUSA hasn't paid much attention to organizing their scheduling of the subsidy sports to reduce the travel cost. Working within the CUSA to be a bit less demanding in the travel expenses they place upon member schools could trim that by a noticeable amount ... as in $1m+.

I haven't followed it closely, but I believe that an effort along those lines is already underway.

I have nothing in particular against the MAC accepting Marshall back in, but if they do I would be very strongly in favor of JMU being the #14, since at somewhere around 4hrs drive apart Marshall and JMU would be feasible for travel partner scheduling.

I know I definitely agree with you that Marshall and JMU to the MAC would make the most sense if 2 more were added. JMU in particular has a lot of potential. From what I have studied they have awesome facilities which include a brand new basketball arena. It also doesn’t hurt that they have a fan base that shows up too.

(09-25-2020 12:36 PM)SVHerd Wrote:  Regional conferences may be the norm in the future as states provide less funding to institutions and AD's feel the pinch of less dollars. Marshall's upped their academic standing and they certainly have the facilities to compliment any G5 league. I think most fans would love to come back for the regional aspect, the history we have with most MAC schools and the savings in travel.

What happened years ago is in the past and I am quite confident that will not be repeated. But if there are reservations for us coming back, I can understand. That being said, we'd make a nice addition and it would be a win-win for all concerned. As for ODU, you can have them, they've done nothing for CUSA in my opinion, and the "big market" aspect is extremely overrated.

UMass much the same as ODU.

Quote: I sat in on the UMass Gridiron Club's Zoom meeting yesterday. My voice recorder went missing, so I took some notes about Coach Bell's comments. He was rattling stuff off pretty fast, so my recollections may (and probably do) have some errors. Don't get overly excited about any of this.

1. Bell said there will be streaming video of the UMass games. I assume he meant this would be if there was no commercial media coverage.

2. Bell said the UMass team had collectively gained 690 pounds and mentioned Bruce Wade and Larnel Coleman were both now over 300 pounds.

3. He said there were now 72 scholarship players on the roster and 69 were available for practice. He didn't specify why the other three were not available. I believe at least one player was opting out due to the Corona virus as is his right per the NCAA. This is both good and bad news. Power Five teams would fall on their swords if they only had 69 scholarship players, but this is a big jump up from UMass' 2019 low fifties. The Minutemen will need at least one more scholarship class to be even with most of their FBS opponents (my words, not Bell's)

4. Bell said there were 16 commits so far for the 2021 recruiting class and he expected to take between 23 to 25 total recruits. He also stated he wanted to keep a couple scholarships open for the spring.

5. Bell said the QB situation was "much improved from last year", but did not give any hints about who would be starting.

6. He said now that the decision to play has been made, UMass would have some practices with full pads and hitting. Bell referenced the large number of serious injuries suffered by NFL players last weekend and said it was dangerous to play without getting the player's body ready for the contact.

7. Bell said the Minutemen started six true freshmen in 2019 and two of those were walk-ons. There is an old coaching maxim stating you lose one game for every true freshman you start. I don't think there is any saying for when your best guy at two positions is a freshman walk-on.

8. Bell said UMass was so thin last year he played on the scout team.

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

(09-26-2020 03:33 AM)pono Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

except nobody under 30 really watches tv anymore. that pot is running dry.

6 teams 1 state vs 16 teams 8 states. if we wanted to be cusa maybe

(09-26-2020 10:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 03:33 AM)pono Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

except nobody under 30 really watches tv anymore. that pot is running dry.

6 teams 1 state vs 16 teams 8 states. if we wanted to be cusa maybe

Do appreciate JHVMU19 and others keeping UMass as a reluctant possibility, my feeling is the MAC should stay as is and no expansion.
However, it a team needs to drop out for a while or permanently Marshall is the clear choice. Especially if they want it bad enough to pay the 2Mil exit fee.

(09-26-2020 10:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 03:33 AM)pono Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

except nobody under 30 really watches tv anymore. that pot is running dry.

6 teams 1 state vs 16 teams 8 states. if we wanted to be cusa maybe

Do appreciate JHVMU19 and others keeping UMass as a reluctant possibility, my feeling is the MAC should stay as is and no expansion.
However, it a team needs to drop out for a while or permanently Marshall is the clear choice. Especially if they want it bad enough to pay the 2Mil exit fee.

(09-27-2020 11:59 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 10:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 03:33 AM)pono Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

except nobody under 30 really watches tv anymore. that pot is running dry.

6 teams 1 state vs 16 teams 8 states. if we wanted to be cusa maybe

Do appreciate JHVMU19 and others keeping UMass as a reluctant possibility, my feeling is the MAC should stay as is and no expansion.
However, it a team needs to drop out for a while or permanently Marshall is the clear choice. Especially if they want it bad enough to pay the 2Mil exit fee.

MAC commissioner has stated several times he doesn't like Marshall's academics.

I think the MAC is fine at 12. In the short term I expect an expanded playoff and more access bowls. In the long term the AAC is going to get knocked down to size, be it the better programs going P5 or just the reality that spending 4 million on coaches is unsustainable.

UMass no doubt has rising football stock with the facilities going up. Conference fit is tough because of geography but who knows if they can get good enough that calculus changes quickly.

(09-27-2020 11:59 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 10:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 03:33 AM)pono Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

except nobody under 30 really watches tv anymore. that pot is running dry.

6 teams 1 state vs 16 teams 8 states. if we wanted to be cusa maybe

Do appreciate JHVMU19 and others keeping UMass as a reluctant possibility, my feeling is the MAC should stay as is and no expansion.
However, it a team needs to drop out for a while or permanently Marshall is the clear choice. Especially if they want it bad enough to pay the 2Mil exit fee.

MAC commissioner has stated several times he doesn't like Marshall's academics.

I think the MAC is fine at 12. In the short term I expect an expanded playoff and more access bowls. In the long term the AAC is going to get knocked down to size, be it the better programs going P5 or just the reality that spending 4 million on coaches is unsustainable.

UMass no doubt has rising football stock with the facilities going up. Conference fit is tough because of geography but who knows if they can get good enough that calculus changes quickly.

(09-29-2020 10:42 AM)SVHerd Wrote:  

(09-27-2020 11:59 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 10:46 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(09-26-2020 03:33 AM)pono Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 07:34 PM)JHVMU19 Wrote:  Regional MAC with lots of TV $$ added would be great if we added JMU, ODU, Marshall, and UMASS. (Yes, I think we could reluctantly take back Marshall and UMASS. )

8 states, 16 teams ALL SPORTS

FB
16 teams
2 divisions with 2 cross over football each year and + 3 OOC
Championship Detroit

Hoops
16 teams
Alternating home and away every other year
Championship Cleveland

Or even better add ARMY as FB only partner (minus 1 all sports other school) and have 15 team hoops...

GO MIAMI! GO USAFA!

except nobody under 30 really watches tv anymore. that pot is running dry.

6 teams 1 state vs 16 teams 8 states. if we wanted to be cusa maybe

Do appreciate JHVMU19 and others keeping UMass as a reluctant possibility, my feeling is the MAC should stay as is and no expansion.
However, it a team needs to drop out for a while or permanently Marshall is the clear choice. Especially if they want it bad enough to pay the 2Mil exit fee.

MAC commissioner has stated several times he doesn't like Marshall's academics.

I think the MAC is fine at 12. In the short term I expect an expanded playoff and more access bowls. In the long term the AAC is going to get knocked down to size, be it the better programs going P5 or just the reality that spending 4 million on coaches is unsustainable.

UMass no doubt has rising football stock with the facilities going up. Conference fit is tough because of geography but who knows if they can get good enough that calculus changes quickly.

I think I’d revisit the a academics question since our last categorization evaluation. That excuse no longer holds water.