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+------ Thread: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? (/thread-903006.html)
Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - micman - 07-16-2020 04:22 PM
Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - aardWolf - 07-16-2020 04:31 PM
Now convert that to recruits per year, which I'll define as the Big Mac Ratio metric (McDonalds All-American Recruits per season)...
Larry Finch = 7 recruits / 11 seasons = 0.636 Big Mac Ratio
Josh Pastner = 5 recruits / 8 seasons = 0.625 Big Mac Ratio
Lord Voldemort = 4 recruits / 10 seasons = 0.400 Big Mac Ratio
Penny Hardaway = 2 recruits / 2 seasons = 1.000 Big Mac Ratio
The only conclusion I can get from that is that Lord Voldemort underperformed (and also maybe that you're not giving Penny enough credit).
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - micman - 07-16-2020 04:39 PM
(07-16-2020 04:31 PM)aardWolf Wrote: Now convert that to recruits per year, which I'll define as the Big Mac Ratio metric (McDonalds All-American Recruits per season)...
Larry Finch = 7 recruits / 11 seasons = 0.636 Big Mac Ratio
Josh Pastner = 5 recruits / 8 seasons = 0.625 Big Mac Ratio
Lord Voldemort = 4 recruits / 10 seasons = 0.400 Big Mac Ratio
Penny Hardaway = 2 recruits / 2 seasons = 1.000 Big Mac Ratio
The only conclusion I can get from that is that Lord Voldemort underperformed (and also maybe that you're not giving Penny enough credit).
I meant most recruits by coach "to date". I expect Penny to exceed that number if he stays here another 5 years. If Moussa had played a senior year, he would have been a McDAA.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - aardWolf - 07-16-2020 04:42 PM
(07-16-2020 04:39 PM)micman Wrote:(07-16-2020 04:31 PM)aardWolf Wrote: Now convert that to recruits per year, which I'll define as the Big Mac Ratio metric (McDonalds All-American Recruits per season)...
Larry Finch = 7 recruits / 11 seasons = 0.636 Big Mac Ratio
Josh Pastner = 5 recruits / 8 seasons = 0.625 Big Mac Ratio
Lord Voldemort = 4 recruits / 10 seasons = 0.400 Big Mac Ratio
Penny Hardaway = 2 recruits / 2 seasons = 1.000 Big Mac Ratio
The only conclusion I can get from that is that Lord Voldemort underperformed (and also maybe that you're not giving Penny enough credit).
I meant most recruits by coach "to date". I expect Penny to exceed that number if he stays here another 5 years. If Moussa had played a senior year, he would have been a McDAA.
Most recruits by coach "to date" is unfairly biased towards coaches that have been here longer. To understand how good of a recruiter a coach is, you need to adjust for years coaching.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - mairving - 07-16-2020 05:31 PM
Finch only recruited locally. If he missed out on a guy it could spell trouble like Tony Harris.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Keeper - 07-16-2020 05:47 PM
Yep Penny is the best since Finch. Same heart, similar talent, rightly seasoned, and all Memphis!
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Hernando Hills Tiger - 07-16-2020 06:00 PM
(07-16-2020 05:31 PM)mairving Wrote: Finch only recruited locally. If he missed out on a guy it could spell trouble like Tony Harris.
Larry Bush was from Chicago.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Tigerx3 - 07-16-2020 06:00 PM
(07-16-2020 04:22 PM)micman Wrote: Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
That’s the names that actually came here. Weren’t there other MAAs that either committed or signed and didn’t play college ball?
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Keeper - 07-16-2020 06:13 PM
(07-16-2020 06:00 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:(07-16-2020 04:22 PM)micman Wrote: Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
That’s the names that actually came here. Weren’t there other MAAs that either committed or signed and didn’t play college ball?
Many that is why the NCAA came up with the one and done Calapari rule.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - micman - 07-16-2020 06:42 PM
(07-16-2020 06:00 PM)Tigerx3 Wrote:(07-16-2020 04:22 PM)micman Wrote: Since several threads comparing CPH's high level recruits to other former coaches, I started looking back. If we consider only McDonalds All Americans (which our best 2 players of that era were not (Penny and Keith Lee), Finch is the best as of now.
Finch recruited 7 (Elliott Perry, Anthony Douglass, David Vaughn, Deuce Ford, Cedric Henderson, and Lorenzen Wright); Pastner recruited 5 (Joe Jackson, Jelan Kendrick, Adonis Thomas, Shaq Goodwin, and Dedric Lawson); Calipari recruited 4 (Dajuan Wagner, Darius Washington, Derrick Rose, and Tyreke Evans); Penny 2 (Wiseman, Achiuwa).
That’s the names that actually came here. Weren’t there other MAAs that either committed or signed and didn’t play college ball?
I only remember Kendrick Perkins.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - k2tigers - 07-16-2020 06:56 PM
and Amar'e Stoudemire
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - k2tigers - 07-16-2020 07:17 PM
OP,
McDonalds AA's don't carry near the luster they did even 2 years ago. The landscape has completely changed. 5-star prep schoolers and all the reclassify's take way eligibility
The whole recruiting industry has evolved over many years - the composite rankings are the best - RSCI, 247
The best head coach recruiters for Memphis - past, present, future - in order
John Calipari
Penny Hardaway
Gene Bartow
Larry Finch
Dana Kirk
Josh Pastner
imo, of course....
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - ImaTiger - 07-16-2020 07:22 PM
Finch got all of Dana's players....
Finch got Ronnie and Kennon.
Larry is the best recruiter ever. Love Penny, but Larry is GOAT.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - uskjtc02 - 07-16-2020 07:27 PM
Penny will be the best recruiter when it’s all said and done. It’s much harder these days with all the options these days. NBA, G league and overseas.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - k2tigers - 07-16-2020 07:42 PM
(07-16-2020 07:22 PM)ImaTiger Wrote: Finch got all of Dana's players....
Finch got Ronnie and Kennon.
Larry is the best recruiter ever. Love Penny, but Larry is GOAT.
didn't hurt to have a top 10 nephew from Nashville either
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Browning Hall - 07-16-2020 08:06 PM
Actually, Moe Iba, with an assist from Leonard Draper, recruited Finch and Robinson. So there’s that. And it was AC Wayne Yates that recruited Larry Kenon out of Amarillo, Texas.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - k2tigers - 07-16-2020 08:18 PM
sure, but the best head coach recruiters usually have some of the best player-getters, but the HC has to close
like the above post where someone said Finch got all of Kirk's players....
Finch famously flipped Andre Turner, but he wasn't the one who pursenally made sure Keith Lee was in the bag
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Browning Hall - 07-16-2020 09:52 PM
Hard to compare the old school guys with modern day recruiting. Kirk didn’t have private jets. He recruited from his station wagon. Finch pounded the pavement.
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Memphis Yankee - 07-16-2020 10:03 PM
(07-16-2020 07:17 PM)k2tigers Wrote: OP,
McDonalds AA's don't carry near the luster they did even 2 years ago. The landscape has completely changed. 5-star prep schoolers and all the reclassify's take way eligibility
The whole recruiting industry has evolved over many years - the composite rankings are the best - RSCI, 247
The best head coach recruiters for Memphis - past, present, future - in order
John Calipari
Penny Hardaway
Gene Bartow
Larry Finch
Dana Kirk
Josh Pastner
imo, of course....
Your list is perfect. Penny gaining ground though. Don't forget we would have gotten Jaylen Green the #1 recruit in the country. MASSIVE!
RE: Was Coach Finch Best Recruiting Coach? - Tigerx3 - 07-16-2020 10:13 PM
(07-16-2020 09:52 PM)Browning Hall Wrote: Hard to compare the old school guys with modern day recruiting. Kirk didn’t have private jets. He recruited from his station wagon. Finch pounded the pavement.
Kirk had shoe boxes and used car sources.
I always heard Larry played it straight but our boosters helped out outside of his overt awareness.