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+---- Thread: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment (/thread-900017.html)
ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - MinerInWisconsin - 05-25-2020 11:42 AM
ULL AD says
Lots of opinion but makes a lot of sense. Coming from an SBC AD is more evidence that things could be happening. Allowing La Tech to avoid ULM is do-able while still aligning much more geographically that the 2 conferences are now.
"The way UL athletic director Bryan Maggard sees it, we’re running out of time.
And he’s right.
All those who have been waiting for enough college presidents and athletic directors to put aside egos to consolidate the Sun Belt Conference with Conference USA in some form may never see a more convincing opportunity than the economic turmoil caused by the coronavirus pandemic."
"The hope is as money talks, pettiness walks."
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Blue_Trombone - 05-25-2020 11:49 AM
I don't think that cherry picking who you want/don't want is going to be allowed in a merger/realign scenario. No one is going to agree to it if it leaves their school out of the mix, and trying to make a cherry picked conference is always going to leave enough on the outside to block those moves. Here's how I see it playing out:
Western Conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
RICE
ASU
ULL
ULM
LATECH
USM
Little Rock (BB Only)
UTA (BB only)
Eastern Conference:
TROY
USA
UAB
WKU
MTSU
MARSHALL
ODU
UNCC
APP
CCU
GSU
GS
FIU
FAU
I grouped the three Alabama schools together, since I don't think splitting them up will work in any of these scenarios. I also put them in the East since I think that is what they would prefer. West gets the bb-only schools since that's what makes sense geographically.
I'm not saying this is the best 2 conferences that could be made with these pieces, but I think that what's above is the most likely outcome.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - MinerInWisconsin - 05-25-2020 11:54 AM
This quote by our commissioner is from the following article:
SI article
MacLeod (C-USA): We talked about even just playing within divisions, then having the two division winners play for the championship. Some of the non-conference games are really important to our schools (guarantee games). Another possibility: if things get crazy, do we need to play other schools that are close to us from other conferences, others within our footprint? Some of that maybe we should have been doing a long time ago, be a lot smarter. This gives us a chance to reset a little bit.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Nugget49er - 05-25-2020 11:54 AM
(05-25-2020 11:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote: I don't think that cherry picking who you want/don't want is going to be allowed in a merger/realign scenario. No one is going to agree to it if it leaves their school out of the mix, and trying to make a cherry picked conference is always going to leave enough on the outside to block those moves. Here's how I see it playing out:
Western Conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
RICE
ASU
ULL
ULM
LATECH
USM
Little Rock (BB Only)
UTA (BB only)
Eastern Conference:
TROY
USA
UAB
WKU
MTSU
MARSHALL
ODU
UNCC
APP
CCU
GSU
GS
FIU
FAU
I grouped the three Alabama schools together, since I don't think splitting them up will work in any of these scenarios. I also put them in the East since I think that is what they would prefer. West gets the bb-only schools since that's what makes sense geographically.
I'm not saying this is the best 2 conferences that could be made with these pieces, but I think that what's above is the most likely outcome.
I agree with the approach you are taking and the reasons behind it, but the west would end up with 10 FB schools splitting the college football payout money, and the east would have 14. That may be a hurdle.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Side Show Joe - 05-25-2020 12:05 PM
(05-25-2020 11:42 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote: ULL AD says
Lots of opinion but makes a lot of sense. Coming from an SBC AD is more evidence that things could be happening. Allowing La Tech to avoid ULM is do-able while still aligning much more geographically that the 2 conferences are now.
"The way UL athletic director Bryan Maggard sees it, we’re running out of time.
And he’s right.
All those who have been waiting for enough college presidents and athletic directors to put aside egos to consolidate the Sun Belt Conference with Conference USA in some form may never see a more convincing opportunity than the economic turmoil caused by the coronavirus pandemic."
"The hope is as money talks, pettiness walks."
The realignment supporters have lost their moment and they know it. Football will be back in the fall. The smart states are going back to work. Oil is rebounding. There was never any real support for a C-USA/Sun Belt realignment, and it isn't going to happen now.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - pilot172000 - 05-25-2020 12:06 PM
ULM would probably get the NMSU/Idaho treatment and be pushed independent. UAB would more than likely pull a Tech and stick with USM than have to be in a conference with the other two Alabama schools.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - MinerInWisconsin - 05-25-2020 12:07 PM
(05-25-2020 11:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:(05-25-2020 11:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote: I don't think that cherry picking who you want/don't want is going to be allowed in a merger/realign scenario. No one is going to agree to it if it leaves their school out of the mix, and trying to make a cherry picked conference is always going to leave enough on the outside to block those moves. Here's how I see it playing out:
Western Conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
RICE
ASU
ULL
ULM
LATECH
USM
Little Rock (BB Only)
UTA (BB only)
Eastern Conference:
TROY
USA
UAB
WKU
MTSU
MARSHALL
ODU
UNCC
APP
CCU
GSU
GS
FIU
FAU
I grouped the three Alabama schools together, since I don't think splitting them up will work in any of these scenarios. I also put them in the East since I think that is what they would prefer. West gets the bb-only schools since that's what makes sense geographically.
I'm not saying this is the best 2 conferences that could be made with these pieces, but I think that what's above is the most likely outcome.
I agree with the approach you are taking and the reasons behind it, but the west would end up with 10 FB schools splitting the college football payout money, and the east would have 14. That may be a hurdle.
I really don't know why conferences agreed to a flat conference payment when some are bigger than others. It should be changed to a team payment so that each school receives the same amount.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Blue_Trombone - 05-25-2020 12:08 PM
(05-25-2020 11:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:(05-25-2020 11:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote: I grouped the three Alabama schools together, since I don't think splitting them up will work in any of these scenarios. I also put them in the East since I think that is what they would prefer. West gets the bb-only schools since that's what makes sense geographically.
I'm not saying this is the best 2 conferences that could be made with these pieces, but I think that what's above is the most likely outcome.
I agree with the approach you are taking and the reasons behind it, but the west would end up with 10 FB schools splitting the college football payout money, and the east would have 14. That may be a hurdle.
I was wrestling with that too, but in the end I decided on that lineup because:
a) I think Troy would prefer to be in the East with teams like GS, App St, and Marshall
b) I think UAB would prefer to be close to GSU, GS, WKU, MTSU, Charlotte, etc, than LaTech, USM, ULM, and Arkansas St. Basketball would be better in the East as well, which I think UAB would prefer.
c) I think USA wouldn't want to be the Eastern most point in a conference that stretches to El Paso when they could join a conf with 2 other Alabama teams right next door.
d) The Western conference would have 12 full members (10 FB) and East would have 14. At the TV contracts both conferences have been looking at, that's not too much of a difference in income. You could also speculate that UTA and Little Rock could join a different basketball conference, but that adds a variable out of the control of both these conferences and for a maneuver like this you want to have full control.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - pilot172000 - 05-25-2020 12:10 PM
(05-25-2020 12:07 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:Because they submissive idiots who thought it was the best they could get. It should have been a per school payment that way schools could align and adapt and not fear the money crunch.(05-25-2020 11:54 AM)Nugget49er Wrote:(05-25-2020 11:49 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote: I don't think that cherry picking who you want/don't want is going to be allowed in a merger/realign scenario. No one is going to agree to it if it leaves their school out of the mix, and trying to make a cherry picked conference is always going to leave enough on the outside to block those moves. Here's how I see it playing out:
Western Conference:
UTEP
UTSA
UNT
TXST
RICE
ASU
ULL
ULM
LATECH
USM
Little Rock (BB Only)
UTA (BB only)
Eastern Conference:
TROY
USA
UAB
WKU
MTSU
MARSHALL
ODU
UNCC
APP
CCU
GSU
GS
FIU
FAU
I grouped the three Alabama schools together, since I don't think splitting them up will work in any of these scenarios. I also put them in the East since I think that is what they would prefer. West gets the bb-only schools since that's what makes sense geographically.
I'm not saying this is the best 2 conferences that could be made with these pieces, but I think that what's above is the most likely outcome.
I agree with the approach you are taking and the reasons behind it, but the west would end up with 10 FB schools splitting the college football payout money, and the east would have 14. That may be a hurdle.
I really don't know why conferences agreed to a flat conference payment when some are bigger than others. It should be changed to a team payment so that each school receives the same amount.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Blue_Trombone - 05-25-2020 12:12 PM
(05-25-2020 12:06 PM)pilot172000 Wrote: ULM would probably get the NMSU/Idaho treatment and be pushed independent. UAB would more than likely pull a Tech and stick with USM than have to be in a conference with the other two Alabama schools.
How do you do that though? Idaho got pushed down by their President/Athletic director, and the football conference NMSU was a part of literally disappeared. But I don't think that's how realignment would work out in this case. All parties need to preserve the NCAA basketball bid and their signatory status in the CFP. So what seems to be most likely to happen is not 2 conferences dissolving and reforming, just rearranging the pieces, handing the keys off to someone else, and changing the names, but the same conferences would be there. The only way to get rid of them would be to kick them out by a vote. But if ULM hasn't been kicked out so far, why would they be kicked out in this new iteration?
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - pilot172000 - 05-25-2020 12:17 PM
(05-25-2020 12:12 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:(05-25-2020 12:06 PM)pilot172000 Wrote: ULM would probably get the NMSU/Idaho treatment and be pushed independent. UAB would more than likely pull a Tech and stick with USM than have to be in a conference with the other two Alabama schools.
How do you do that though? Idaho got pushed down by their President/Athletic director, and the football conference NMSU was a part of literally disappeared. But I don't think that's how realignment would work out in this case. All parties need to preserve the NCAA basketball bid and their signatory status in the CFP. So what seems to be most likely to happen is not 2 conferences dissolving and reforming, just rearranging the pieces, handing the keys off to someone else, and changing the names, but the same conferences would be there. The only way to get rid of them would be to kick them out by a vote. But if ULM hasn't been kicked out so far, why would they be kicked out in this new iteration?
Money..... New Conferences could force the lower teams to put up or shut up. ULM has contributed absolutely nothing to the Sunbelt. I think ULL and others would be glad to rid themselves of ULM and others if they thought it was creating a better situation.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - CrushMI - 05-25-2020 12:21 PM
No thank you!
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Blue_Trombone - 05-25-2020 12:23 PM
(05-25-2020 12:17 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:(05-25-2020 12:12 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:(05-25-2020 12:06 PM)pilot172000 Wrote: ULM would probably get the NMSU/Idaho treatment and be pushed independent. UAB would more than likely pull a Tech and stick with USM than have to be in a conference with the other two Alabama schools.
How do you do that though? Idaho got pushed down by their President/Athletic director, and the football conference NMSU was a part of literally disappeared. But I don't think that's how realignment would work out in this case. All parties need to preserve the NCAA basketball bid and their signatory status in the CFP. So what seems to be most likely to happen is not 2 conferences dissolving and reforming, just rearranging the pieces, handing the keys off to someone else, and changing the names, but the same conferences would be there. The only way to get rid of them would be to kick them out by a vote. But if ULM hasn't been kicked out so far, why would they be kicked out in this new iteration?
Money..... New Conferences could force the lower teams to put up or shut up. ULM has contributed absolutely nothing to the Sunbelt. I think ULL and others would be glad to rid themselves of ULM and others if they thought it was creating a better situation.
I... what? Money is not a mechanism. By put up or shut up, what do you mean by that? Does every member have to pay an entrance fee so high that ULM couldn't pay it? Would they have to commit a certain amount of money to facilities? What if they say they do and then don't? Does UL-L want to potentially get the Louisiana legislature involved by taking part in kicking out another University of Louisiana system member?
And they're not new conferences! Just new names and new members. For all legal purposes these are the exact same conferences as before. What if ULM refuses to leave what is currently the Sun Belt?
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Usajags - 05-25-2020 12:25 PM
I think a 3 conference solution is a better answer.
Western Comference
NMSU
All the TX schools(5 schools)
LaTech
ULL
Central Conference
ULM
stAte
USM
USA
UAB
Troy
WKU
MTSU
Eastern Conference
Marshall
ODU
UNCC
Coastal
FIU
FAU
GaSo
GaSt
8 team conferences, begin life a new. Everyone is about as close you can ever be to all your conference mates. Unfortunately we will always have F_U at the bottom of Florida and UTEP and NMSU on the other side of Texas.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - freshtop - 05-25-2020 12:25 PM
I think the real catalyst for realignment is going to be current members of both conferences dropping athletics down to non-scholarship to stay afloat financially. Once those programs drop, you can see what you have left geographically, drop the outliers, make 2 conferences out of the remainder with some scheduling tie in's for those in the middle so that they can preserve rivalries and ease travel costs.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - MinerInWisconsin - 05-25-2020 12:28 PM
If the 2 conferences came to th table to work things out there would be some politicking going on, no doubt about it. Human nature.
La Tech to the west if ULM goes east.
NMSU brought into west and UAB stays west with USM.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - pilot172000 - 05-25-2020 12:30 PM
(05-25-2020 12:23 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:Let me be blunt, because obviously you aren’t understanding me. Tech would go independent before they ever joined a conference with ULM. ULL and Arkansas State would have no problem finding a way to trade Tech for ULM. I understand that they wouldn’t technically be new conferences, but do we consider the Big12 to be a new conference or the amalgamation of two conferences? It’s politics at its finest. You get a consensus from enough programs and find a way to make it work within the rules. Technically the Sunbelt or CUSA could move to form a new conference as long as they have 5 teams that have played together over a certain period of time. They would have to leave few teams to allow the old conference from continuing as an entity. See Southwest Conference.(05-25-2020 12:17 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:(05-25-2020 12:12 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:(05-25-2020 12:06 PM)pilot172000 Wrote: ULM would probably get the NMSU/Idaho treatment and be pushed independent. UAB would more than likely pull a Tech and stick with USM than have to be in a conference with the other two Alabama schools.
How do you do that though? Idaho got pushed down by their President/Athletic director, and the football conference NMSU was a part of literally disappeared. But I don't think that's how realignment would work out in this case. All parties need to preserve the NCAA basketball bid and their signatory status in the CFP. So what seems to be most likely to happen is not 2 conferences dissolving and reforming, just rearranging the pieces, handing the keys off to someone else, and changing the names, but the same conferences would be there. The only way to get rid of them would be to kick them out by a vote. But if ULM hasn't been kicked out so far, why would they be kicked out in this new iteration?
Money..... New Conferences could force the lower teams to put up or shut up. ULM has contributed absolutely nothing to the Sunbelt. I think ULL and others would be glad to rid themselves of ULM and others if they thought it was creating a better situation.
I... what? Money is not a mechanism. By put up or shut up, what do you mean by that? Does every member have to pay an entrance fee so high that ULM couldn't pay it? Would they have to commit a certain amount of money to facilities? What if they say they do and then don't? Does UL-L want to potentially get the Louisiana legislature involved by taking part in kicking out another University of Louisiana system member?
And they're not new conferences! Just new names and new members. For all legal purposes these are the exact same conferences as before. What if ULM refuses to leave what is currently the Sun Belt?
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - Blue_Trombone - 05-25-2020 12:30 PM
(05-25-2020 12:28 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote: If the 2 conferences came to th table to work things out there would be some politicking going on, no doubt about it. Human nature.
La Tech to the west if ULM goes east.
NMSU brought into west and UAB stays west with USM.
What does the East get for taking ULM and leaving UAB? That's not a fair trade.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - pilot172000 - 05-25-2020 12:32 PM
(05-25-2020 12:25 PM)Usajags Wrote: I think a 3 conference solution is a better answer.
Western Comference
NMSU
All the TX schools(5 schools)
LaTech
ULL
Central Conference
ULM
stAte
USM
USA
UAB
Troy
WKU
MTSU
Eastern Conference
Marshall
ODU
UNCC
Coastal
FIU
FAU
GaSo
GaSt
8 team conferences, begin life a new. Everyone is about as close you can ever be to all your conference mates. Unfortunately we will always have F_U at the bottom of Florida and UTEP and NMSU on the other side of Texas.
(05-25-2020 12:28 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote: If the 2 conferences came to th table to work things out there would be some politicking going on, no doubt about it. Human nature.
La Tech to the west if ULM goes east.
NMSU brought into west and UAB stays west with USM.
I like the concept of that Western Conference but with Arkansas State added. Kind of a Big West from the 90s reunion.
RE: ULL AD on SBC/CUSA realignment - MinerInWisconsin - 05-25-2020 12:36 PM
(05-25-2020 12:30 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:(05-25-2020 12:28 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote: If the 2 conferences came to th table to work things out there would be some politicking going on, no doubt about it. Human nature.
La Tech to the west if ULM goes east.
NMSU brought into west and UAB stays west with USM.
What does the East get for taking ULM and leaving UAB? That's not a fair trade.
It's about keeping UAB and La Tech happy, not east or west. The east has ODU so that is enough to keep everyone happy, right?