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+----- Thread: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting (/thread-897621.html)
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Dog Fan - 05-06-2020 01:16 PM
(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
True. I like Monty, but it's time for him to go. I believe his contract ends June 30, 2021. So give him until that time because we are in no position to buy him out. However, I have this gut feeling that he may get or has already gotten another extension. And, what makes it worse, is that we probably won't know until close to or after 6/30/21.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Big Red - 05-06-2020 01:23 PM
(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
For a bigger than comfortable chuck of those 25 years, we were those "out of conference patsies". Plus, it's not like no one else plays teams like that.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Big Red - 05-06-2020 01:30 PM
(05-06-2020 01:16 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
True. I like Monty, but it's time for him to go. I believe his contract ends June 30, 2021. So give him until that time because we are in no position to buy him out. However, I have this gut feeling that he may get or has already gotten another extension. And, what makes it worse, is that we probably won't know until close to or after 6/30/21.
Devil's Advocate(ish...).
Let's say that with this years team (and we have a season and it's a full season and all that) and he wins 17 or 18 games and is over .500 in conference and competes for a division again. Looking at next offseason, they are to set loose 5 guys (Mateen, Daow, Henry-Hayes, Scott, and Johnson). That list isn't exactly a program breaker to lose and he'd have a strong, veteran returning lineup of 10 seniors and juniors with 5 scholarships to add to that mix.
Would you still be in favor of sending him on his way?
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Dog Fan - 05-06-2020 02:02 PM
(05-06-2020 01:30 PM)Big Red Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:16 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
True. I like Monty, but it's time for him to go. I believe his contract ends June 30, 2021. So give him until that time because we are in no position to buy him out. However, I have this gut feeling that he may get or has already gotten another extension. And, what makes it worse, is that we probably won't know until close to or after 6/30/21.
Devil's Advocate(ish...).
Let's say that with this years team (and we have a season and it's a full season and all that) and he wins 17 or 18 games and is over .500 in conference and competes for a division again. Looking at next offseason, they are to set loose 5 guys (Mateen, Daow, Henry-Hayes, Scott, and Johnson). That list isn't exactly a program breaker to lose and he'd have a strong, veteran returning lineup of 10 seniors and juniors with 5 scholarships to add to that mix.
Would you still be in favor of sending him on his way?
Yes, at the end of his contract. We need to bring in someone who can bring back a little of the glory days and build some excitement among the fans. Fans are pretty disgusted. The stuff I hear at the games is not for publication. People are frustrated after so many years of futility and mediocrity.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - uiniu57 - 05-06-2020 07:06 PM
(05-06-2020 01:23 PM)Big Red Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:For a bigger than comfortable chuck of those 25 years, we were those "out of conference patsies". Plus, it's not like no one else plays teams like that.(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
No. 1, our patsies are generally worse than other teams' patsies and we're playing more of them than before.
No. 2, we were the "out of conference patsies" to a better class of teams in the past, now we're regarded as patsies by just about everyone we play, and even our patsies consider us as possible upsets.
No. 3, Monty has been overpaid and extended well beyond his results. Again, it was virtually impossible for him not to improve the program compared to RP. Compare him to coaches who have also had to rebuild poor programs, and he's a failure.
No. 4, the program under him generates nothing --- no fan interest, no recruiting interest, no interest from the majority of people who stopped posting on this board because they lost all interest.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Big Red - 05-06-2020 07:59 PM
(05-06-2020 07:06 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:23 PM)Big Red Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:For a bigger than comfortable chuck of those 25 years, we were those "out of conference patsies". Plus, it's not like no one else plays teams like that.(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
No. 1, our patsies are generally worse than other teams' patsies and we're playing more of them than before.
No. 2, we were the "out of conference patsies" to a better class of teams in the past, now we're regarded as patsies by just about everyone we play, and even our patsies consider us as possible upsets.
No. 3, Monty has been overpaid and extended well beyond his results. Again, it was virtually impossible for him not to improve the program compared to RP. Compare him to coaches who have also had to rebuild poor programs, and he's a failure.
No. 4, the program under him generates nothing --- no fan interest, no recruiting interest, no interest from the majority of people who stopped posting on this board because they lost all interest.
1. That's totally your opinion but I'd like to see some evidence of that.
2. See number 1, but I bet you're going to have a real hard time proving that and that part about us currently being patsies to everyone we played because that's patently false. I bet Saint Mary's doesn't consider us a patsy. I bet Buffalo doesn't either. They won 18 games for pete's sake. And yet we were everyone's patsy? They they suck at scouting.
3. Sure. Overpaid. Market value? Maybe...probably. Extended well beyond his success. yeah, probably, but we all know full well why.
4. that's not all on the coach. and i don't know what you mean by "no recruiting interest". and this board has always been way more interested in football than basketball but when it's the middle of the basketball season, there's discussion here. not as much as the football season but that's the makeup of the board and how it's always been.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - chihuskie - 05-07-2020 09:57 AM
John McDougal, Jim Rosborough, Jim Molinari, Brian Hammel, ALL better coaches than any we have had since (Judson borderline makes or gets left off the list).
Patton is in a league of his own (terrible beyond description). But where is Montgomery? If you look at results (personalities aside) I don't see how you could call Montgomery successful. Am I wrong?
Now, is there someone better to move in? Tough to say. It's a tough situation. But I have to lean towards the side that Monty has had a good fair shot at straightening things out and I am not convinced. He may grade out as a "c" coach. Can we get an "A?" I don't know. Can we get a "B"? I hope so. But unless we do, maybe a "c" is not that bad.
??? Tough situation!
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Dog Fan - 05-07-2020 10:26 AM
(05-07-2020 09:57 AM)chihuskie Wrote: John McDougal, Jim Rosborough, Jim Molinari, Brian Hammel, ALL better coaches than any we have had since (Judson borderline makes or gets left off the list).
Patton is in a league of his own (terrible beyond description). But where is Montgomery? If you look at results (personalities aside) I don't see how you could call Montgomery successful. Am I wrong?
Now, is there someone better to move in? Tough to say. It's a tough situation. But I have to lean towards the side that Monty has had a good fair shot at straightening things out and I am not convinced. He may grade out as a "c" coach. Can we get an "A?" I don't know. Can we get a "B"? I hope so. But unless we do, maybe a "c" is not that bad.
??? Tough situation!
I say we take the risk and bring someone else in - someone who is a decent coach and will accept the salary NIU will pay.
Not saying he'd be the right choice, but I wonder if T.J. Lux is available? He left his high school coaching position at a Merrillville (IN) high school. He has several years of successful high school coaching. Just sayin'.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - pantone1935 - 05-07-2020 12:18 PM
(05-07-2020 10:26 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:(05-07-2020 09:57 AM)chihuskie Wrote: John McDougal, Jim Rosborough, Jim Molinari, Brian Hammel, ALL better coaches than any we have had since (Judson borderline makes or gets left off the list).
Patton is in a league of his own (terrible beyond description). But where is Montgomery? If you look at results (personalities aside) I don't see how you could call Montgomery successful. Am I wrong?
Now, is there someone better to move in? Tough to say. It's a tough situation. But I have to lean towards the side that Monty has had a good fair shot at straightening things out and I am not convinced. He may grade out as a "c" coach. Can we get an "A?" I don't know. Can we get a "B"? I hope so. But unless we do, maybe a "c" is not that bad.
??? Tough situation!
I say we take the risk and bring someone else in - someone who is a decent coach and will accept the salary NIU will pay.
Not saying he'd be the right choice, but I wonder if T.J. Lux is available? He left his high school coaching position at a Merrillville (IN) high school. He has several years of successful high school coaching. Just sayin'.
Like Gerry Faust at Notre Dame. How did that work out?
GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - uiniu57 - 05-07-2020 12:46 PM
(05-07-2020 12:18 PM)pantone1935 Wrote: Like Gerry Faust at Notre Dame. How did that work out?
Complete apples to oranges analogy.
-- NIU is not Notre Dame and Notre Dame is not NIU.
-- When it comes to elevating a program, two good recruits in basketball equals winning, it takes two good recruiting classes in football to equal winning.
-- NIU hired McDougal based on high school coaching success and he rebuilt a program that went to seed under Emory Luck.
-- Faust wasn't able to be successful at the college level, see ND, then see Akron. Personally know he was full of himself; personally know Lux is not.
-- No idea if Lux would work out but you tell us, how did the following work out?
Patton, previous Colorado head coach;
Pettibone, previous Oklahoma assistant vs. Sadler, previous OU assistant;
Jorgenson, previous B1G assistant vs. Monty, previous B1G assistant.
Bottom line, there are no certainties. Question becomes how much mediocrity do you accept? Is two above-.500 seasons in nine years progress or time for a change?
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Growler83 - 05-07-2020 02:28 PM
According to the NIU record book, Monty needs 13 wins next year to tie John McDougal for most wins by any NIU basketball coach.
McDougal had 136 wins in 10 seasons while
Monty stands at 123 after 9 seasons.
McDougal had 5 seasons over 500. His best was the 80-81 season at 17-12.
Of course Tom Jorgensen had 95 wins in only 7 years.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - Dog Fan - 05-07-2020 02:37 PM
(05-07-2020 02:28 PM)Growler83 Wrote: According to the NIU record book, Monty needs 13 wins next year to tie John McDougal for most wins by any NIU basketball coach.
McDougal had 136 wins in 10 seasons while
Monty stands at 123 after 9 seasons.
McDougal had 5 seasons over 500. His best was the 80-81 season at 17-12.
Of course Tom Jorgensen had 95 wins in only 7 years.
If Monty is so great, why is there disinterest in the program, fans are abandoning the team, and the Convo is relatively empty on game days?
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - pantone1935 - 05-07-2020 05:10 PM
(05-07-2020 02:37 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:(05-07-2020 02:28 PM)Growler83 Wrote: According to the NIU record book, Monty needs 13 wins next year to tie John McDougal for most wins by any NIU basketball coach.
McDougal had 136 wins in 10 seasons while
Monty stands at 123 after 9 seasons.
McDougal had 5 seasons over 500. His best was the 80-81 season at 17-12.
Of course Tom Jorgensen had 95 wins in only 7 years.
If Monty is so great, why is there disinterest in the program, fans are abandoning the team, and the Convo is relatively empty on game days?
Maybe it is the fans. As I have said before, "be careful what you wish for". 57 does as he usually does rip apart some ones post as it suits him. All I was trying to point out to DF that hiring a HS coach is a real reach. Times are changing. NIU and most other universities are in a financial pickle. Monty has slowly ( and I know you all want instant gratification) built this program closer to were it should be. Sure, get some young assistant and he may or not build the program, or he may get the program sanctioned, or he may win the NCAA championship.
Who was the last program outside of a big city or big conference to win the NCAA. West Texas, and they broke the color line. Other than that Loyola of Chicago, but that ain't going to happen again. NIU is respectable again, and that is happening in the **** town of Dekalb which shuns the University and what it can do for the area.
I am sorry to be this way, but NIU athletics is not going to be the way you remember it. Like I said earlier in my rant, "times are a changing".
GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
p.s. FCS is probably the last option. And I am sorry to say that.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - prairiedawg - 05-07-2020 07:19 PM
(05-07-2020 05:10 PM)pantone1935 Wrote:(05-07-2020 02:37 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:(05-07-2020 02:28 PM)Growler83 Wrote: According to the NIU record book, Monty needs 13 wins next year to tie John McDougal for most wins by any NIU basketball coach.
McDougal had 136 wins in 10 seasons while
Monty stands at 123 after 9 seasons.
McDougal had 5 seasons over 500. His best was the 80-81 season at 17-12.
Of course Tom Jorgensen had 95 wins in only 7 years.
If Monty is so great, why is there disinterest in the program, fans are abandoning the team, and the Convo is relatively empty on game days?
Maybe it is the fans. As I have said before, "be careful what you wish for". 57 does as he usually does rip apart some ones post as it suits him. All I was trying to point out to DF that hiring a HS coach is a real reach. Times are changing. NIU and most other universities are in a financial pickle. Monty has slowly ( and I know you all want instant gratification) built this program closer to were it should be. Sure, get some young assistant and he may or not build the program, or he may get the program sanctioned, or he may win the NCAA championship.
Who was the last program outside of a big city or big conference to win the NCAA. West Texas, and they broke the color line. Other than that Loyola of Chicago, but that ain't going to happen again. NIU is respectable again, and that is happening in the **** town of Dekalb which shuns the University and what it can do for the area.
I am sorry to be this way, but NIU athletics is not going to be the way you remember it. Like I said earlier in my rant, "times are a changing".
GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
p.s. FCS is probably the last option. And I am sorry to say that.
Get off the ledge Pantone!!!!
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - sportsfan - 05-07-2020 08:43 PM
(05-07-2020 05:10 PM)pantone1935 Wrote:FCS for what?(05-07-2020 02:37 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:(05-07-2020 02:28 PM)Growler83 Wrote: According to the NIU record book, Monty needs 13 wins next year to tie John McDougal for most wins by any NIU basketball coach.
McDougal had 136 wins in 10 seasons while
Monty stands at 123 after 9 seasons.
McDougal had 5 seasons over 500. His best was the 80-81 season at 17-12.
Of course Tom Jorgensen had 95 wins in only 7 years.
If Monty is so great, why is there disinterest in the program, fans are abandoning the team, and the Convo is relatively empty on game days?
Maybe it is the fans. As I have said before, "be careful what you wish for". 57 does as he usually does rip apart some ones post as it suits him. All I was trying to point out to DF that hiring a HS coach is a real reach. Times are changing. NIU and most other universities are in a financial pickle. Monty has slowly ( and I know you all want instant gratification) built this program closer to were it should be. Sure, get some young assistant and he may or not build the program, or he may get the program sanctioned, or he may win the NCAA championship.
Who was the last program outside of a big city or big conference to win the NCAA. West Texas, and they broke the color line. Other than that Loyola of Chicago, but that ain't going to happen again. NIU is respectable again, and that is happening in the **** town of Dekalb which shuns the University and what it can do for the area.
I am sorry to be this way, but NIU athletics is not going to be the way you remember it. Like I said earlier in my rant, "times are a changing".
GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
p.s. FCS is probably the last option. And I am sorry to say that.
Assuming you mean football as there is no such thing for basketball.
Sorry if I didn’t see the entire thread.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - pvk75 - 05-07-2020 09:17 PM
We had decent attendance at the Buffalo game (because THammock pushed it). Attendance "should" be higher because there are a lot of weekday night games, so the "suitcase school" mentality shouldn't have much impact. I propose it's a combination of things.
--- The sterility of the Convo. I was at the last game at the Fieldhouse and the first at the Convo, and I immediately didn't like the atmosphere. Personal choice, but the Convo has no aura, no uniqueness inside; nothing special about it.
--- The distance walking from the major dorms. Think weekday nights in January and February. That's a 40-minute freeze for 1 1/2 hours of game.
--- The "only-big-$$-need-apply" and "we'll-decide-everything-and-just-let-you-know" attitudes of the a.dept. They scooped up the old Huskie Club, threw out the Red Riot and generally wrecked anything generated by fans they couldn't control and milk for $.
--- Humongous student athletic fees (by some accounts, highest in the state among "publics.") Worst ticket in town for students, with no real return value.
--- Lack of traditions. Remember the thunderous foot-stomps at the Fieldhouse? Hell, sometimes we don't even have cheerleaders (oh, that's right, they cut that three years ago and didn't tell anyone). Think those students ... and the Silverettes ... kept it a secret around campus?
--- O-o-c opponents at home. I know some were exhibition games, but ... Rockford College, Maryland Eastern Shore, Cardinal Stritch, Carthage, Judson, St. Joseph's (Ind.), Idaho, Maine, Aurora, Roosevelt, Eureka, Indiana University Northwest, Central Connecticutt State, St. Francis (Ill.,) Illinois Tech. OK, Aurora and Rockford (except for that embarassing roof leak cancellation & reschedule) might bring some fans ... and not to diss anyone ... but I have a really hard time getting excited over playing Southwest Central Northeast Upper Bytzfylk U.
--- Credit for the Victor E. Pub, but that was a pushy fan's idea and it only came about after STF calculated the profits. And according to some, he still didn't do it quite right.
However, I will continue to support our Huskies, with the hope that someday they'll remember the "common-folk" alumni and the students.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - uiniu57 - 05-08-2020 11:49 AM
Pantone IF you truly think the fans share some of the blame, then why has there ever been any amount of success?
Obviously NIU is not alone in being in a financial pickle, all the more reason to get a better return on the money that is being spent.
When you ask about "the last program outside of a big city or big conference to win the NCAA", WHO CARES?
Expectations for NIU basketball is not an NCAA championship or at this point, even making that tournament, how about simply being a serious contender for the title in a MAC that has gotten weaker?
You bring up Loyola and seem to conveniently forget that program was nowhere near special for a long time and used to be a regular opponent that the Huskies held their own against. Being located in Chicago is not the reason for their success, see DePaul or UIC for additional examples.
As for your statement: "Monty has slowly (and I know you all want instant gratification) built this program closer to were it should be." OMG! Instant gratification? It's been nine years! Show me a program outside of a big city or big conference that has tolerated that much mediocrity!
Per your own comment, Monty has, over that length of time, built the program only closer to where it should be.
Don't believe the majority of this board agrees with you that "NIU is respectable again", when the program hasn't been in a conference tourney final since 1985-86 (under Hammel).
Here's a newsflash for you, even if STF continues to move football games out of town, NIU is not leaving "the **** town of Dekalb [sic]". So STF, Monty, and everyone who believes DeKalb "shuns the University and what it can do for the area" need to realize it wasn't always that way. The more important concept should be why has that happened? Did the university begin to take for granted the town plus fans local and otherwise?
You claim "the times are a changing", but are content to allow Monty by luck and longevity, creep upward or stay put until the top of the MAC regresses closer.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - 7 - 05-08-2020 12:31 PM
(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
They’re coming off one of their, if not the, most successful years in two decades. It’s not Monty’s fault it was canceled for COVID.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - HuskiePride12 - 05-08-2020 12:38 PM
(05-08-2020 12:31 PM)7 Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
They’re coming off one of their, if not the, most successful years in two decades. It’s not Monty’s fault it was canceled for COVID.
Unless Beane really steps up next year are they back to being really bad again?
My guess is yes. German was the driving force this season.
That being said, there is no way you fire a coach during this time and based on this season's results he does get one more year IMO.
RE: 2020-21 Hoops Transfers and NIU Recruiting - 7 - 05-08-2020 12:59 PM
(05-08-2020 12:38 PM)HuskiePride12 Wrote:I don’t think they’re going to be really bad. There’s some pieces. I think he has to have another good year to stick around, but like you said he gets another year.(05-08-2020 12:31 PM)7 Wrote:(05-06-2020 01:04 PM)thxjoenovak Wrote:(05-06-2020 11:20 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:(05-06-2020 10:11 AM)7 Wrote: Monty deserves another year.
Huskie fans deserve more than than just two above .500 seasons in a nine-year period.
And if you took away “W”s vs some of those out of conference patsies....you wouldn’t even have those 2 years of .500.
Montys “deserves” nada.
RP was not a tough act to follow.
They’re coming off one of their, if not the, most successful years in two decades. It’s not Monty’s fault it was canceled for COVID.
Unless Beane really steps up next year are they back to being really bad again?
My guess is yes. German was the driving force this season.
That being said, there is no way you fire a coach during this time and based on this season's results he does get one more year IMO.