Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command

Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - Printable Version

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Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - Captain Bearcat - 04-07-2020 02:41 PM

I'm curious what former military members think about this.

I'm sure you've read the story by now. The Teddy Roosevelt (an aircraft carrier) has over 100 cases of coronavirus. The Captain wanted the crew taken off the TR. He got nowhere with his commanding officer (a rear admiral who is aboard the ship), so he sent a letter to his superiors and cc'd over 20 people on the e-mail. The story leaked to the press, and the Captain was relieved of duty for letting it leak that TR was not combat ready.

On Monday, the acting Secretary of the Navy spoke to the crew of the TR remotely (it was broadcast over the ship's loudspeaker). Here is his speech:

[Image: oxikN0p.jpeg]

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - TripleA - 04-07-2020 02:49 PM

Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - ArmyBlazer - 04-07-2020 02:56 PM

I’m not a Navy guy, but I think the Secretary didn’t handle this well. Even if the relief was completely justified, it doesn’t make sense to dog the Captain in front of his crew. It sends the wrong message, especially to the enlisted. This was treated like one of those “the beatings will continue until morale is improved” situations.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - vandiver49 - 04-07-2020 03:10 PM

(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - DavidSt - 04-07-2020 03:20 PM

(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

The captain's concerns for the health of his officers is the most important thing here. It sends the message that he have the backs of his men while this Modly jerk and the rear admiral did not. It seems Trump have the captain's back on this one. It seems Trump pushed Modly out or in other words, he was fired.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - vandiver49 - 04-07-2020 03:25 PM

(04-07-2020 03:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

The captain's concerns for the health of his officers is the most important thing here. It sends the message that he have the backs of his men while this Modly jerk and the rear admiral did not. It seems Trump have the captain's back on this one. It seems Trump pushed Modly out or in other words, he was fired.

Laughable assumption. The Navy's BUPERS motto is 'Mission First, Sailors Always.' There more than enough folks on this board who can regale with stories of the DOD choosing the mission over people. For starters look up stop-loss and IA.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - usmbacker - 04-07-2020 03:29 PM

Acting Navy secretary offers resignation after criticizing ousted USS Theodore Roosevelt commander:

Link

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - 49RFootballNow - 04-07-2020 03:30 PM

(04-07-2020 03:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

The captain's concerns for the health of his officers is the most important thing here. It sends the message that he have the backs of his men while this Modly jerk and the rear admiral did not. It seems Trump have the captain's back on this one. It seems Trump pushed Modly out or in other words, he was fired.

He compromised the security of an entire carrier group and the United States by letting our enemies know that his carrier was vulnerable. I'm sure he thought he was helping his crew, but he did it WRONG. The SecNav was also wrong to publicly belittle him, but no one was going to tolerate an officer who broke the chain of command staying in a position of authority over a command that HE compromised the security of. The enemies of the United States now know we are down one carrier strike group. He's lucky he isn't facing a Court Martial.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - ArmyBlazer - 04-07-2020 03:31 PM

(04-07-2020 03:25 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

The captain's concerns for the health of his officers is the most important thing here. It sends the message that he have the backs of his men while this Modly jerk and the rear admiral did not. It seems Trump have the captain's back on this one. It seems Trump pushed Modly out or in other words, he was fired.

Laughable assumption. The Navy's BUPERS motto is 'Mission First, Sailors Always.' There more than enough folks on this board who can regale with stories of the DOD choosing the mission over people. For starters look up stop-loss and IA.

In the Army we call it the big green weenie for a reason...

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - JMUDunk - 04-07-2020 03:51 PM

For some reason this sounds kind of personal. Never in the military, but dad was in tail end of WWll and then in Army reserves so I picked up a bit of stuff over the years.

Reading this episode from e-mail to where we are, this seems like the first BIG mistake was blasting that e-mail out by a CO of a freaking massive nuke aircraft carrier that it is potentially vulnerable. You can't and don't do that. As said, you take it to the next guy up, even though in my civilian opinion the RADM should have been a good enough or sufficient answer.

I haven't seen his (or her) response to the CO's concerns, but I'd find that interesting and instructive. If the initial answer was something to the tune of "They are aware of the situation, all the way up to the SecNav or even the POTUS", then what the heck more did this guy think was going to change with an e-mail?

This is a floating city off in the far reaches of the Pacific Ocean, It can't stop or turn on a dime, just like it can't change course and be back in port on the Mainland over night.

Tough situation, no doubt, but what could or can be done that hasn't been tried? I'm sure they'll get to Guam just as soon as they can.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - bullet - 04-07-2020 04:27 PM

(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Good. That speech was entirely inappropriate. He also accused him of dishonesty to his crew with no facts.

The optics of the reassignment was terrible, not necessarily the action. But that speech was just bad. Also his comments about Guam, like a US territory has any choice.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - DavidSt - 04-07-2020 06:33 PM

(04-07-2020 03:30 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

The captain's concerns for the health of his officers is the most important thing here. It sends the message that he have the backs of his men while this Modly jerk and the rear admiral did not. It seems Trump have the captain's back on this one. It seems Trump pushed Modly out or in other words, he was fired.

He compromised the security of an entire carrier group and the United States by letting our enemies know that his carrier was vulnerable. I'm sure he thought he was helping his crew, but he did it WRONG. The SecNav was also wrong to publicly belittle him, but no one was going to tolerate an officer who broke the chain of command staying in a position of authority over a command that HE compromised the security of. The enemies of the United States now know we are down one carrier strike group. He's lucky he isn't facing a Court Martial.

My grandfather served in the Navy during WW2 and was stationed at Pearl Harbor, but he got a leave to join my grandmother who gave birth to my father before the attacked on Pearl Harbor. So, the world are not at war either since our enemies are also fighting this pandemic.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - shere khan - 04-07-2020 06:36 PM

(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Exactly my read. 04-cheers

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - usmbacker - 04-07-2020 06:52 PM

(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Yep....

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - TripleA - 04-07-2020 07:33 PM

(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

I didn't say anything disagreeing with that. My point was the email blast bypassed the chain of command. That's an automatic reassignment from command of a ship, under almost any circumstance. Agree about SecNav and said that.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - vandiver49 - 04-07-2020 07:34 PM

(04-07-2020 06:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote: My grandfather served in the Navy during WW2 and was stationed at Pearl Harbor, but he got a leave to join my grandmother who gave birth to my father before the attacked on Pearl Harbor. So, the world are not at war either since our enemies are also fighting this pandemic.

So his ship wasn't at sea and/or he was on shore duty? That's a little different than a CVN underway for its 7 month deployment.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - Kaplony - 04-07-2020 08:30 PM

(04-07-2020 06:33 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:30 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

The captain's concerns for the health of his officers is the most important thing here. It sends the message that he have the backs of his men while this Modly jerk and the rear admiral did not. It seems Trump have the captain's back on this one. It seems Trump pushed Modly out or in other words, he was fired.

He compromised the security of an entire carrier group and the United States by letting our enemies know that his carrier was vulnerable. I'm sure he thought he was helping his crew, but he did it WRONG. The SecNav was also wrong to publicly belittle him, but no one was going to tolerate an officer who broke the chain of command staying in a position of authority over a command that HE compromised the security of. The enemies of the United States now know we are down one carrier strike group. He's lucky he isn't facing a Court Martial.

My grandfather served in the Navy during WW2 and was stationed at Pearl Harbor, but he got a leave to join my grandmother who gave birth to my father before the attacked on Pearl Harbor. So, the world are not at war either since our enemies are also fighting this pandemic.

We also weren't at war up until the point the first torpedo dropped into Pearl Harbor.

And I'm sure that your Grandfather is proud of you serving from your couch.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - Owl 69/70/75 - 04-07-2020 09:31 PM

(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.
Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Same on all counts.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - vandiver49 - 04-07-2020 09:40 PM

(04-07-2020 07:33 PM)TripleA Wrote:
(04-07-2020 03:10 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:
(04-07-2020 02:49 PM)TripleA Wrote: Navy vet here. Both sides are wrong. Captain didn't use chain of command. Blasted email to 20 or so people, with complaints. Irresponsible. SecNav name calling is also irresponsible. Terrible response.

Captain should be reassigned to a lesser position, and SecNav has already tendered his resignation.

Both were wrong. But I think the CO went to the RADM first with his concerns. His mistake was the email blast when getting the IG involved was the appropriate next step. SECNAV has already tendered his resignation but his outburst was uncalled for.

I didn't say anything disagreeing with that. My point was the email blast bypassed the chain of command. That's an automatic reassignment from command of a ship, under almost any circumstance. Agree about SecNav and said that.

You’re correct in that we are in agreement. Just that I think the CO did go to the Flag with his concerns and they were ‘noted’. I also think it is a difference of philosophy of different warfare areas as the Captain was a Pilot while the RADM was Surface Warfare.

RE: Trump's SecNav calls fired Captain "too naive or too stupid" to command - Kaplony - 04-07-2020 10:01 PM

While I can understand the Captain's concerns for his crew the fact that he cc:'d people not involved in advancing to the next step in the chain of command is an unforgivable offense. Because he did so it got out in the media which compromised the safety of his ship and in turn compromised the national security of the country he was sworn to protect. Relieving him was the correct thing to do.

Bashing him on the way out was a dickish move and the acting SECNAV rightfully resigned over it. As a former naval officer himself he knew better.