(05-24-2020 06:17 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  This goes back to the Stalin quote; one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

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(05-24-2020 05:35 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(05-24-2020 05:27 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(05-24-2020 04:13 PM)MickMack Wrote:  

(05-24-2020 03:43 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(05-24-2020 02:47 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I get that it's too much to ask you to think. It makes sense but you're going to have to do some critical thinking to get there.

Work for it. Maybe you'll surprise me.

Well, I'm just trying to think how this magical process works where no matter what we do, we low riskers are always going to seek out and destroy those most at risk.

Even if those most vulnerable are at home, have washed their hands and all that good stuff, if I go to B-dubs to watch a game I'm somehow going to end up costing someone their life.

But if you say so...

You go to B-Dubs and spread it to 30 people. They each unknowingly spread to 30 more. It's not rocket science...

Perhaps... I don't have it.

And if I did, I would have sense enough to not go out in public.

ALSO not rocket science.

Asymptotic spread is a thing. Again, not rocket science. But I can appreciate some have a much, much lower bar.

(05-25-2020 07:04 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  You guys and your self-serving stats, and the hours you must spend finding that one number, factoid, or anecdotal story that supports your opinion, cause, or righteousness is hilarious and kinda sad.

Put your phone down. Go outside. If you are in a draconian lockdown State - leave. Experience the beauty of freedom.

My Florida trip was fantastic. Eight family members went out to dinner at a microbrewery my first night in town. The vanilla porter - so good. Servers wore masks, no gloves but not a single customer had a mask. Tables were slightly spaced - for a good show - but every table filled with laughter and life.

Beach days were packed with tourists and locals alike. Waves were breaking nice and this old guy was still able to surf - it had been awhile. The only change I witnessed from the virus was there was a strict no alcohol policy and enforcement on the beach. Sand volleyball was everywhere with no concern of who on the team was asymptomatic. Sun bathers set up canopies right next to each other while children and seniors both enjoyed their freedoms together.

My airline first attempted to book their seats at reservation with a social distancing pattern, but when demand increased they packed the plane - to serve their customers and obviously increase revenue. One lady who was sporting a N95 mask and heavy green dishwashing gloves freaked out as more people came on board. She started screaming "I want off this plane". They moved her up to the front row next to the flight attendants. Less than half of passengers wore masks. And 3/4 of those took their masks off during the flight. Airport waiting areas were similar. Seems to me that people have them around their neck in case someone close by requests nicely or shames them into covering their face - otherwise no mask. Also, it appears the high school and college kids like the new style of wearing colorful bandanas draped from just under their eyes to below their necks like they are about to rob a bank. Wearing sunglasses of course.

But the best thing about my entire trip was that I was able to spend real time with my 80 yr old Mom. Real hugs, real kisses on the cheek, real human interaction with no PPE and no so-called health expert telling me when and how I can see my mother. Freedom.

(05-25-2020 07:59 AM)namrag Wrote:  It still alarms me, and makes me question our populations average intellect, when so many went from accepting a “2-3 week shutdown” to “flatten the curve” so that hospitals weren’t overwhelmed, right into an indefinite lockdown, with justifications that do not gel with science, nor gel with what we have learned about the virus to this point.

And so many have been taught, and are enthusiastically embracing, using the pro-lockdown view as a virtue signal. Like so many other politicized issues, their viewpoint makes them feel superior to others.

The pro-lockdown crowd remind me of the infamous quote from The Battle of Ben Tre:

“It became necessary to destroy the town to save it”.

(05-25-2020 07:16 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-25-2020 07:04 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  You guys and your self-serving stats, and the hours you must spend finding that one number, factoid, or anecdotal story that supports your opinion, cause, or righteousness is hilarious and kinda sad.

Put your phone down. Go outside. If you are in a draconian lockdown State - leave. Experience the beauty of freedom.

My Florida trip was fantastic. Eight family members went out to dinner at a microbrewery my first night in town. The vanilla porter - so good. Servers wore masks, no gloves but not a single customer had a mask. Tables were slightly spaced - for a good show - but every table filled with laughter and life.

Beach days were packed with tourists and locals alike. Waves were breaking nice and this old guy was still able to surf - it had been awhile. The only change I witnessed from the virus was there was a strict no alcohol policy and enforcement on the beach. Sand volleyball was everywhere with no concern of who on the team was asymptomatic. Sun bathers set up canopies right next to each other while children and seniors both enjoyed their freedoms together.

My airline first attempted to book their seats at reservation with a social distancing pattern, but when demand increased they packed the plane - to serve their customers and obviously increase revenue. One lady who was sporting a N95 mask and heavy green dishwashing gloves freaked out as more people came on board. She started screaming "I want off this plane". They moved her up to the front row next to the flight attendants. Less than half of passengers wore masks. And 3/4 of those took their masks off during the flight. Airport waiting areas were similar. Seems to me that people have them around their neck in case someone close by requests nicely or shames them into covering their face - otherwise no mask. Also, it appears the high school and college kids like the new style of wearing colorful bandanas draped from just under their eyes to below their necks like they are about to rob a bank. Wearing sunglasses of course.

But the best thing about my entire trip was that I was able to spend real time with my 80 yr old Mom. Real hugs, real kisses on the cheek, real human interaction with no PPE and no so-called health expert telling me when and how I can see my mother. Freedom.

(05-25-2020 01:33 AM)converrl Wrote:  .

HOWEVER...more will die due to lack of food $$$ and medical care, as well as despondency leading to suicide. That would certainly slow the spread of the virus...by killing untold millions of people over and above any damage the virus would have done.

It's not $$$ vs. lives...it's lives vs. lives...fewer people will die with a robust world economy than cowering in their homes waiting to starve to death once the government can't print any more $$$.

It really is just that simple.

(05-25-2020 10:12 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I just don't understand where these "pro lockdown" people are? I'm in favor of reopening.

However, I'm not getting aroused by the idea of a packed airplane when there are 100,000 people dead. I'm not accusing people of living in fear because they're taking simple precautions. I'm not fear mongering because I'm pointing out the realities of a dangerous virus.

No, in fact, I spent all weekend out and about, trying different resteraunts and working in the lab once again.

But, and I can not stress this enough, I will never criticize someone for being concerned about 100,000 lost lives. That's not living in fear. It's called compassion. The world could use more of it, at the moment.



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(05-25-2020 01:27 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I'm not commenting on you specifically. I'm commenting on this idea that people who adhere to social distancing guidelines, and who wear masks, are somehow living in fear. The death toll we've incurred thus far is severe. We shouldn't become desensitized to it and accuse those who are frightened of being any less courageous as you or I.

On memorial day, we rightly honor those who lost their lives serving the country. For context, more Americans have died in 2 months from Coronavirus than in combat during the Vietnam, Korean, Gulf, Revolutionary, 1812, Mexican American, Spanish/Philippine, Afghanistan, and Iraqi wars COMBINED.

Could you imagine if we told veterans of those wars that they were living in fear?

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(05-25-2020 02:21 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I think you missed my point entirely.

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