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ACC Football Spending By School - TexanMark - 03-26-2020 11:04 AM
As always take some of this with a grain of salt.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2020/03/where-does-syracuse-football-rank-in-acc-in-spending.html
Let me know if it falls behind a paywall for you
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - georgia_tech_swagger - 03-26-2020 11:14 AM
FSU and Miami look severely mismanaged. The NC-4, BC, and UVA lack the institutional support needed to ever be a threat to even be a consistent Top 25 team.
The people you should expect to rise based on spending are Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. Their increases have been substantial and consistent or enormous and structural in the case of Louisville with all the new luxury seating.
If trends hold, then just under Collins GT will have surpassed 5 teams. They're 3 in the rear view mirror two hot on their heels right now.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - IHAVETRIED - 03-26-2020 12:52 PM
(03-26-2020 11:04 AM)TexanMark Wrote: As always take some of this with a grain of salt.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2020/03/where-does-syracuse-football-rank-in-acc-in-spending.html
Let me know if it falls behind a paywall for you
Behind the Wall.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - Hokie Mark - 03-26-2020 01:33 PM
(03-26-2020 12:52 PM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:(03-26-2020 11:04 AM)TexanMark Wrote: As always take some of this with a grain of salt.
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2020/03/where-does-syracuse-football-rank-in-acc-in-spending.html
Let me know if it falls behind a paywall for you
Behind the Wall.
Free subscription.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - Hokie Mark - 03-26-2020 01:34 PM
(03-26-2020 11:14 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: FSU and Miami look severely mismanaged. The NC-4, BC, and UVA lack the institutional support needed to ever be a threat to even be a consistent Top 25 team.
The people you should expect to rise based on spending are Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. Their increases have been substantial and consistent or enormous and structural in the case of Louisville with all the new luxury seating.
If trends hold, then just under Collins GT will have surpassed 5 teams. They're 3 in the rear view mirror two hot on their heels right now.
So, you're saying the Coastal will once again belong to the winner of GT/VT?
I can live with that.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - TexanMark - 03-26-2020 04:09 PM
Where does Syracuse football rank in ACC in spending?
Updated 9:30 AM; Today 9:15 AM
By Nate Mink | nmink@syracuse.com
Syracuse, N.Y. — Syracuse is spending more money on football than it ever has in its history.
Pretty much everyone else is doing the same.
That’s to be expected with mushrooming revenue gains in athletic departments across the country. Traditionally, revenue and spending go hand-in-hand with schools looking to spend as much as they make in order to win, recruit and enhance the school’s profile.
Syracuse football spent $28 million in a year it won 10 games for the first time in nearly two decades, according to the most recent figures reported to the U.S. Department of Education. That’s an increase of $3 million from the previous year but still falls well short of the top spenders in the ACC, three of which are annual opponents competing in the same division as the Orange.
The figured derived from the Equity in Athletics Data Analysis form that all schools — public and private — must submit to comply with the federal government covers various football-related costs, including travel, head-coaching salaries, assistant coaching and support staff salaries, recruiting expenses, equipment and more.
Schools often argue the EADA data does not give a complete picture, and different accounting methods from school to school can make comparisons difficult. Regardless, the federal data provides one of the rare windows into athletic spending of private schools such as Syracuse, which traditionally has chosen not to release any financial information, from season-ticket revenue and apparel/licensing agreements to coaching salaries.
The timeframe covered in this year’s report — July 1, 2018 to June 30, 2019 — included a trip to the Camping World Bowl in Orlando and a new long-term contract for head coach Dino Babers.
While increased spending often signals to fans a willingness to compete on the field, the gap between the haves and have-nots in every conference is a sobering reminder of the uphill battle Syracuse faces in competing at the very top of the ACC.
“We need to be creative, entrepreneurial in how we do things a little bit,” Syracuse athletic director John Wildhack told syracuse.com/The Post-Standard last fall. "We don’t have the massive resources that a Clemson has or an Alabama has. We’ve got to be a little more creative in how we compete.
"At the same time, in the four years we’ve been together, I think we quietly invested in this program to try to build the foundation so that we can have that competitive success.
“I think the staff is excited about a lot of the kids that [redshirted in 2019] and think these kids, two, three, four years down the road can be very good players.”
On to the list of biggest spenders in the ACC:
15. Wake Forest - $21.5 million
2017 spending - $19.4 millon
2016 spending - $18.9 million
Dave Clawson continues to work wonders at the smallest FBS school. He has won 30 games over the previous four seasons and helped Wake earn its first national ranking in more than a decade last fall. All this at a place that exhibits frugal spending. Wake’s reported football expenses were the second-lowest of any Power Five school, behind Kansas State.
Still, the Deacs’ athletic department finally crossed the finish line last September with the opening of a new sports complex. The Sutton Sports Performance Center features more than 10,000 square feet of strength and conditioning space for football, a nutrition center and space for football offices and meeting rooms that sit right off the practice fields.
14. North Carolina - $23.1 million
2017 - $21.1 million
2016 - $21.7 million
North Carolina is the rare school in which its 2018 football spending was not a high-water mark. The highest total came in 2015, a year North Carolina added an extra trip to nearby Charlotte to play in the ACC Championship game.
That 11-win season was the apex of the Larry Fedora era, and the decline came sudden. Fedora’s tenure ended with a whimper as the team finished a 2-9 season that included a canceled home game against Central Florida because of a hurricane.
UNC fired Fedora after the 2018 season, absorbing a $12 million buyout for a contract that ran through the 2022 season. The school will pay him about $3 million a year through the duration of the deal.
Carolina also is paying new coach Mack Brown $750,000 per year. He earns an additional $2 million in supplemental compensation on top of that.
The EADA data does not take into account money paid directly to coaches through multimedia partners such as IMG. Schools often agree to trade advertising and broadcasting rights to IMG in exchange for the company paying a portion of its coaches’ salaries.
Brown’s annual salary, about $3.5 million, includes $500,000 per year from IMG and another $200,000 from Nike, according to the Raleigh News & Observer.
13. NC State - $23.3 million
2017 - $21.3 million
2016 - $20.9 million
Dave Doeren won nine games in 2018 for the second consecutive season, earning a trip to the Gator Bowl only to get shellacked by 39 points to Texas A&M.
His reward? A new deal last March that reportedly includes $1.6 million in annual supplemental compensation from the school’s contracts for media and Adidas.
12. Boston College - $24.9 million
2017 - $23.5 million
2016 - $23.1 million
Boston College had to spend money to travel to Texas for a bowl game that wound up getting canceled because of severe weather in the Dallas area.
That about sums up the Steve Addazio era in BC. Despite leading the Eagles to bowls in six of seven seasons, the program rarely felt like it was ascending and never won more than seven games in any of his seven seasons.
11. Virginia - $26.3 million
2017 - $22.6 million
2016 - $21.1 million
After winning eight games in his first two seasons, Bronco Mendenhall matched that win total in Year 3, placing third in the Coastal Division in 2018. The breakthrough would come a year later with a division crown and trip to the Orange Bowl, but Mendenhall has slowly built Virginia back up to respectability after six-straight losing seasons.
10. Syracuse - $28 million
2017 - $25 million
2016 - $22 million
Syracuse has invested in staffing, recruiting ops, and infrastructure space since Babers’ arrival. It also had bowl expenses to cover for the 2018 Camping World Bowl in Orlando, the first postseason trip for the program since 2013.
9. Duke - $28.8 million
2017 - $26.2 million
2016 - $24.5 million
It has been a generation since Duke enjoyed as many spot appearances in the AP Top 25 as it has seen under David Cutcliffe. He got the Blue Devils to another eight-win season in 2018.
More impressive? Over the last seven seasons, none of the four ACC schools in North Carolina have more wins than Duke’s 51. The next closest is NC State with 47.
8. Georgia Tech - $29.7 million
2017 - $25.1 million
2016 - $22.3 million
The Paul Johnson era ran its course. Nobody was having much fun anymore. Certainly not Johnson, who had admitted as much during a pedestrian 7-6 season that ended in Detroit. And certainly not the fans, as the crowds at Bobby Dodd Stadium began to lighten.
Johnson’s retirement paved the way for the school to hire Geoff Collins. If Johnson was the Charleston Chew of the ACC, Collins would be like Pop Rocks.
7. Virginia Tech - $30.1 million
2017 - $27.9 million
2016 - $25 million
After 19 wins in his first two seasons, Justin Fuente took a step back with a six-win season in 2018. Internal strife within the program led to questions about whether Fuente was still the right long-term fit.
The Hokies still turned a $26.1 million profit behind one of the most loyal and rabid home football environments in the ACC.
6. Pitt - $31.8 million
2017 - $27.1 million
2016 $27.4 million
Pitt’s 14-game season began with a 51-6 loss to Penn State in a packed Heinz Field and ended with trips to Charlotte for the ACC Championship game and El Paso, Tex., to face Stanford in the Sun Bowl.
5. Louisville - $44.1 million
2017 -$26.9 million
2016 - $25.2 million
Few schools have increased its cash flow like Louisville has in recent years. Two big reasons for that: Lamar Jackson filled the stadium (and the piggybank) with two spectacular seasons, including a Heisman win in 2016, and the school completed a major stadium renovation with added seating, luxury suites, loge boxes and other special fan amenities and revenue sources that filled the coffers.
Naturally, all that increased spending in 2018 resulted in a pathetic 2-10 season that promptly ended Bobby Petrino’s tenure.
4. Notre Dame - $50.2 million
2017 - $42.8 million
2016 - $33.3 million
While Notre Dame isn’t a member of the ACC in football, we thought it’d be useful to include it here given it plays a steady diet of ACC opponents each year as part of its agreement.
Notre Dame has had an exclusive TV deal with NBC for nearly three decades, reportedly worth $15 million annually. It’s unclear if that money is accounted for in its EADA reporting, but it is clear the Irish have slowly built up its capital since a 4-8 season in 2016.
The Irish have won at least 10 games in each of the previous three seasons, highlighted by a berth in the College Football Playoff after an unbeaten regular season in 2018 that included the decisive, 36-3 victory against Syracuse at Yankee Stadium.
3. Clemson - $55.6 million
2017- $46.3 million
2016 - $43.9 million
Clemson is performing like an SEC heavyweight in the ACC’s sandbox. The conference will gladly reap the rewards of the Tigers’ national success, but there’s little doubt, right now, Clemson is the conference’s football cash cow, and it’s a blatant one-sided deal.
Clemson’s reported gross revenue pales in comparisons with the SEC and Big Ten fiefdoms in Tuscaloosa and Columbus it regularly competes with, though the Tigers are not hurting for cash thanks to a devoted booster club.
The inflated expenditures in this 2018 data can be partially explained by postseason trips to Charlotte, Dallas and Santa Clara, where it walloped Alabama, 44-16 for its second College Football Playoff national championship in three years.
2. Miami (Fla.) - $56.3 million
2017 - $37.3 million
2016- $33 million
Miami (Fla.) reported the same totals for revenues and expenses, which sometimes indicates some creative accounting methods were used so as not to show a budget deficit (we’ll get to that with No. 1).
Still, there’s no doubt Miami has upped its spending substantially despite reported revenues keeping in line with recent history.
So many 'Canes zealots had hope Mark Richt would be the one to return the program to national prominence after peaking at No. 2 in the polls in 2017. But Miami stumbled at Pitt in late November, lost three straight to close out the year and then receded back to mediocrity with a 7-6 season in 2018.
Richt retired, and Miami was left to reboot again under Manny Diaz.
1. Florida State - $68.9 million
2017 - $57.7 million
2016 - $48.3 million
Florida State has made no secret about its financial woes in recent years. Reporting by various local media outlets showed FSU racked up a budget deficit of more than $3 million and needed $6 million in booster money transferred to balance last year’s budget.
That this happened even while earning the most football revenue of anyone in the ACC is both incredible and a severe case of gross negligence. Only Alabama football spent more nationally, and Nick Saban has built up enough capital in Tuscaloosa to do so without getting pushback.
Willie Taggart’s 5-7 debut season in 2018, of course, did little to inspire the fanbase and kept Doak Campbell Stadium dotted with empty bleachers until he was fired last November in the middle of his second season.
METHODOLOGY
Here is what is considered an expense, per the EADA guidebook.
Expenses: Expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities. This includes appearance guarantees and options, athletically related student aid, contract services, equipment, fundraising activities, operating expenses, promotional activities, recruiting expenses, salaries and benefits, supplies, travel, and any other expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities.
Include: Actual amounts expended, not budgeted or estimated amounts.
Athletics aid awarded to non-athletes (student-managers, graduate assistants, trainers) who serve a specific team. Prorate these expenses by team if the individual serves more than one team. If the individual serves all teams, please put the athletics aid in the Not Allocated field.
Money for cheerleader and mascots that support the varsity teams.
Benefits paid to coaches by the institution.
The dollar amount for items donated to the institution for intercollegiate athletics (for example, bats and shoes) if a dollar amount can be assigned.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - MKPitt - 03-26-2020 04:15 PM
(03-26-2020 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-26-2020 11:14 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: FSU and Miami look severely mismanaged. The NC-4, BC, and UVA lack the institutional support needed to ever be a threat to even be a consistent Top 25 team.
The people you should expect to rise based on spending are Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. Their increases have been substantial and consistent or enormous and structural in the case of Louisville with all the new luxury seating.
If trends hold, then just under Collins GT will have surpassed 5 teams. They're 3 in the rear view mirror two hot on their heels right now.
So, you're saying the Coastal will once again belong to the winner of GT/VT?
I can live with that.
Hey, Pitt still outspends both (not that it seems to help)
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - georgia_tech_swagger - 03-26-2020 05:15 PM
(03-26-2020 04:15 PM)MKPitt Wrote:(03-26-2020 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-26-2020 11:14 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: FSU and Miami look severely mismanaged. The NC-4, BC, and UVA lack the institutional support needed to ever be a threat to even be a consistent Top 25 team.
The people you should expect to rise based on spending are Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. Their increases have been substantial and consistent or enormous and structural in the case of Louisville with all the new luxury seating.
If trends hold, then just under Collins GT will have surpassed 5 teams. They're 3 in the rear view mirror two hot on their heels right now.
So, you're saying the Coastal will once again belong to the winner of GT/VT?
I can live with that.
Hey, Pitt still outspends both (not that it seems to help)
I'd like to know what shift + or - not owning their own football facility makes in that math. Easy to think up a list of pros (no or low maintenance cost, staffing overhead, etc) and cons (travel for the team even to home games, lower return from the gate and concessions, etc).
And I wouldn't anticipate Pitt outspending either GT or VT for much longer.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - CrazyPaco - 03-26-2020 06:06 PM
(03-26-2020 05:15 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:(03-26-2020 04:15 PM)MKPitt Wrote:(03-26-2020 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-26-2020 11:14 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: FSU and Miami look severely mismanaged. The NC-4, BC, and UVA lack the institutional support needed to ever be a threat to even be a consistent Top 25 team.
The people you should expect to rise based on spending are Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. Their increases have been substantial and consistent or enormous and structural in the case of Louisville with all the new luxury seating.
If trends hold, then just under Collins GT will have surpassed 5 teams. They're 3 in the rear view mirror two hot on their heels right now.
So, you're saying the Coastal will once again belong to the winner of GT/VT?
I can live with that.
Hey, Pitt still outspends both (not that it seems to help)
I'd like to know what shift + or - not owning their own football facility makes in that math. Easy to think up a list of pros (no or low maintenance cost, staffing overhead, etc) and cons (travel for the team even to home games, lower return from the gate and concessions, etc).
And I wouldn't anticipate Pitt outspending either GT or VT for much longer.
The distance from Pitt's Cathedral of Learning or its football operations center to Heinz Field is the same distance as the NC State Memorial Bell Tower to Carter Findlay. Travel is negligible.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - TexanMark - 03-26-2020 06:22 PM
(03-26-2020 06:06 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:(03-26-2020 05:15 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:(03-26-2020 04:15 PM)MKPitt Wrote:(03-26-2020 01:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-26-2020 11:14 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: FSU and Miami look severely mismanaged. The NC-4, BC, and UVA lack the institutional support needed to ever be a threat to even be a consistent Top 25 team.
The people you should expect to rise based on spending are Louisville, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. Their increases have been substantial and consistent or enormous and structural in the case of Louisville with all the new luxury seating.
If trends hold, then just under Collins GT will have surpassed 5 teams. They're 3 in the rear view mirror two hot on their heels right now.
So, you're saying the Coastal will once again belong to the winner of GT/VT?
I can live with that.
Hey, Pitt still outspends both (not that it seems to help)
I'd like to know what shift + or - not owning their own football facility makes in that math. Easy to think up a list of pros (no or low maintenance cost, staffing overhead, etc) and cons (travel for the team even to home games, lower return from the gate and concessions, etc).
And I wouldn't anticipate Pitt outspending either GT or VT for much longer.
The distance from Pitt's Cathedral of Learning or its football operations center to Heinz Field is the same distance as the NC State Memorial Bell Tower to Carter Findlay. Travel is negligible.
I would not too wrap around the axle on these figures. Too many variables and accounting tricks
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - TexanMark - 03-27-2020 11:30 AM
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2020/03/a-closer-look-at-syracuse-football-revenue-since-dino-babers-was-hired.html
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - nole - 03-27-2020 02:44 PM
FSU athletic admin (includes president) has been a FULL train wreck for most of the last 20 years. Last 10 especially.
FSU fans simply don't care. FSU has a history of never question leadership. They will hire anybody....ZERO experience, moron, doens't matter. The culture is do NOT question.
FSU is a train wreck with leadership. Don't expect it to get better soon.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - Hokie Mark - 03-27-2020 05:38 PM
(03-27-2020 02:44 PM)nole Wrote: FSU athletic admin (includes president) has been a FULL train wreck for most of the last 20 years. Last 10 especially.
FSU fans simply don't care. FSU has a history of never question leadership. They will hire anybody....ZERO experience, moron, doens't matter. The culture is do NOT question.
FSU is a train wreck with leadership. Don't expect it to get better soon.
...and yet FSU had the 3rd highest revenue in the FBS in 2018-19, $23M ahead of 4th place. You guys must be really struggling, financially.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - nole - 03-27-2020 07:15 PM
(03-27-2020 05:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-27-2020 02:44 PM)nole Wrote: FSU athletic admin (includes president) has been a FULL train wreck for most of the last 20 years. Last 10 especially.
FSU fans simply don't care. FSU has a history of never question leadership. They will hire anybody....ZERO experience, moron, doens't matter. The culture is do NOT question.
FSU is a train wreck with leadership. Don't expect it to get better soon.
...and yet FSU had the 3rd highest revenue in the FBS in 2018-19, $23M ahead of 4th place. You guys must be really struggling, financially.
So I know in today's world nuance isn't allowed and only 'gotcha' moments like you just attempted matter.
But I'll try anyway. So those #s might mean everything....I don't know.
Here is what I do know for a fact.
*FSU is about what....5 years behind Clemson in a football only facility. And maybe more in football facilities overall.
*UF has broken ground on one (FOF) and it's amazing. FSU hasn't even decided what it will build yet.
*UF is building a $50 baseball facility. FSU insiders openly state FSU baseball facility isn't even at the top of the ACC baseball facility list, LET ALONE the SEC which has about 5-6 new $50 million facilities built recently
*FSU is one of the only colleges in modern day football to lose a national title coach to another school. Money...or lack thereof was 100% a part of that.
*Every insider I know doesn't even debate that FSU doesn't have the money of it's football peers (ie SEC, UF, Clemson, Big 10) for staff (the shadow staff mainly), facilities, etc. They literally state it as fact. Without hesitation. Have for years.
*FSU has had a plan for MANY years to renovate Doak Cambell (totally $250-$400 Million) that it simply can't afford to do. But it is starting to be a structural issue and govt code is a big concern. See FSU's recent survey it sent to boosters to address this.
*FSU athletics has had 2-3 budget cuts in the last 5 years alone.
*FSU had how many decades without a losing season....last 3 years FSU has gone into the toilet. Coincidence? Maybe....I don't think people really think leadership is just unlucky.
*In the last 12-18 months, FSU boosters were forced to liquidate assets to cover budget short comings. Basically, it has resorted to going to it's emergency fund. This is BEFORE the huge hit coming for the current virus emergency.
That's just off the top of my head. I have ZERO doubt FSU has completely mismanaged the athletic dept. That doesn't mean they have done nothing right. That isn't how life works. But they have run the program into the ground.
Stick your head into the sand with that and gotcha moments, but the fans how aren't delusional at FSU know something is wrong.....HOPING it's changing, but none are extremely confident.
And even though FSU's admin is a mess....they are about to lose their AD, president, and 40 year booster president all within the next 18 months. None have a good escape plan. It will get worse at FSU.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - Hokie Mark - 03-27-2020 10:35 PM
(03-27-2020 07:15 PM)nole Wrote:(03-27-2020 05:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-27-2020 02:44 PM)nole Wrote: FSU athletic admin (includes president) has been a FULL train wreck for most of the last 20 years. Last 10 especially.
FSU fans simply don't care. FSU has a history of never question leadership. They will hire anybody....ZERO experience, moron, doens't matter. The culture is do NOT question.
FSU is a train wreck with leadership. Don't expect it to get better soon.
...and yet FSU had the 3rd highest revenue in the FBS in 2018-19, $23M ahead of 4th place. You guys must be really struggling, financially.
So I know in today's world nuance isn't allowed and only 'gotcha' moments like you just attempted matter.
But I'll try anyway. So those #s might mean everything....I don't know.
Here is what I do know for a fact.
*FSU is about what....5 years behind Clemson in a football only facility. And maybe more in football facilities overall.
*UF has broken ground on one (FOF) and it's amazing. FSU hasn't even decided what it will build yet.
*UF is building a $50 baseball facility. FSU insiders openly state FSU baseball facility isn't even at the top of the ACC baseball facility list, LET ALONE the SEC which has about 5-6 new $50 million facilities built recently
*FSU is one of the only colleges in modern day football to lose a national title coach to another school. Money...or lack thereof was 100% a part of that.
*Every insider I know doesn't even debate that FSU doesn't have the money of it's football peers (ie SEC, UF, Clemson, Big 10) for staff (the shadow staff mainly), facilities, etc. They literally state it as fact. Without hesitation. Have for years.
*FSU has had a plan for MANY years to renovate Doak Cambell (totally $250-$400 Million) that it simply can't afford to do. But it is starting to be a structural issue and govt code is a big concern. See FSU's recent survey it sent to boosters to address this.
*FSU athletics has had 2-3 budget cuts in the last 5 years alone.
*FSU had how many decades without a losing season....last 3 years FSU has gone into the toilet. Coincidence? Maybe....I don't think people really think leadership is just unlucky.
*In the last 12-18 months, FSU boosters were forced to liquidate assets to cover budget short comings. Basically, it has resorted to going to it's emergency fund. This is BEFORE the huge hit coming for the current virus emergency.
That's just off the top of my head. I have ZERO doubt FSU has completely mismanaged the athletic dept. That doesn't mean they have done nothing right. That isn't how life works. But they have run the program into the ground.
Stick your head into the sand with that and gotcha moments, but the fans how aren't delusional at FSU know something is wrong.....HOPING it's changing, but none are extremely confident.
And even though FSU's admin is a mess....they are about to lose their AD, president, and 40 year booster president all within the next 18 months. None have a good escape plan. It will get worse at FSU.
I'm not suggesting FSU has nothing to worry about, but you have to admit that being 3rd in revenue doesn't fit with being poor. There's a huge disconnect there somewhere.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - nole - 03-27-2020 10:45 PM
(03-27-2020 10:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-27-2020 07:15 PM)nole Wrote:(03-27-2020 05:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-27-2020 02:44 PM)nole Wrote: FSU athletic admin (includes president) has been a FULL train wreck for most of the last 20 years. Last 10 especially.
FSU fans simply don't care. FSU has a history of never question leadership. They will hire anybody....ZERO experience, moron, doens't matter. The culture is do NOT question.
FSU is a train wreck with leadership. Don't expect it to get better soon.
...and yet FSU had the 3rd highest revenue in the FBS in 2018-19, $23M ahead of 4th place. You guys must be really struggling, financially.
So I know in today's world nuance isn't allowed and only 'gotcha' moments like you just attempted matter.
But I'll try anyway. So those #s might mean everything....I don't know.
Here is what I do know for a fact.
*FSU is about what....5 years behind Clemson in a football only facility. And maybe more in football facilities overall.
*UF has broken ground on one (FOF) and it's amazing. FSU hasn't even decided what it will build yet.
*UF is building a $50 baseball facility. FSU insiders openly state FSU baseball facility isn't even at the top of the ACC baseball facility list, LET ALONE the SEC which has about 5-6 new $50 million facilities built recently
*FSU is one of the only colleges in modern day football to lose a national title coach to another school. Money...or lack thereof was 100% a part of that.
*Every insider I know doesn't even debate that FSU doesn't have the money of it's football peers (ie SEC, UF, Clemson, Big 10) for staff (the shadow staff mainly), facilities, etc. They literally state it as fact. Without hesitation. Have for years.
*FSU has had a plan for MANY years to renovate Doak Cambell (totally $250-$400 Million) that it simply can't afford to do. But it is starting to be a structural issue and govt code is a big concern. See FSU's recent survey it sent to boosters to address this.
*FSU athletics has had 2-3 budget cuts in the last 5 years alone.
*FSU had how many decades without a losing season....last 3 years FSU has gone into the toilet. Coincidence? Maybe....I don't think people really think leadership is just unlucky.
*In the last 12-18 months, FSU boosters were forced to liquidate assets to cover budget short comings. Basically, it has resorted to going to it's emergency fund. This is BEFORE the huge hit coming for the current virus emergency.
That's just off the top of my head. I have ZERO doubt FSU has completely mismanaged the athletic dept. That doesn't mean they have done nothing right. That isn't how life works. But they have run the program into the ground.
Stick your head into the sand with that and gotcha moments, but the fans how aren't delusional at FSU know something is wrong.....HOPING it's changing, but none are extremely confident.
And even though FSU's admin is a mess....they are about to lose their AD, president, and 40 year booster president all within the next 18 months. None have a good escape plan. It will get worse at FSU.
I'm not suggesting FSU has nothing to worry about, but you have to admit that being 3rd in revenue doesn't fit with being poor. There's a huge disconnect there somewhere.
I think that leads credence to my regular assertion, that if my memory serves you might normally doubt, that FSU has some admin issues.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - Hokie Mark - 03-28-2020 07:03 AM
(03-27-2020 10:45 PM)nole Wrote:(03-27-2020 10:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-27-2020 07:15 PM)nole Wrote: ...FSU's admin is a mess....they are about to lose their AD, president, and 40 year booster president all within the next 18 months. None have a good escape plan. It will get worse at FSU.
I'm not suggesting FSU has nothing to worry about, but you have to admit that being 3rd in revenue doesn't fit with being poor. There's a huge disconnect there somewhere.
I think that leads credence to my regular assertion, that if my memory serves you might normally doubt, that FSU has some admin issues.
Understood. So it sounds like the boosters are trying to keep it propped up, but the administrators are basically wasting their money?
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - TexanMark - 03-28-2020 08:38 AM
I'd say baseball stadium building is the least of your worries. You'll never get ROI unless you can convince Leon County to build a joint use stadium for a minor league club.
I've been to Doak Campbell several times. It looks great on the outside and many areas inside the bowl too. Are you saying they still need $250-400M more?
I did notice the skeleton of the stadium: ramps, bathrooms look old. Tell me they didn't put lipstick on a pig with the latest facade remodel?
Makes me think the Dome is the best bargain in the ACC. One building that covers Football, Basketball, Lacrosse and other events like concerts, HS football games, graduations, sports camps, marching band competitions, and monster truck shows!
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - TerryD - 03-28-2020 09:11 AM
(03-27-2020 07:15 PM)nole Wrote:(03-27-2020 05:38 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-27-2020 02:44 PM)nole Wrote: FSU athletic admin (includes president) has been a FULL train wreck for most of the last 20 years. Last 10 especially.
FSU fans simply don't care. FSU has a history of never question leadership. They will hire anybody....ZERO experience, moron, doens't matter. The culture is do NOT question.
FSU is a train wreck with leadership. Don't expect it to get better soon.
...and yet FSU had the 3rd highest revenue in the FBS in 2018-19, $23M ahead of 4th place. You guys must be really struggling, financially.
So I know in today's world nuance isn't allowed and only 'gotcha' moments like you just attempted matter.
But I'll try anyway. So those #s might mean everything....I don't know.
Here is what I do know for a fact.
*FSU is about what....5 years behind Clemson in a football only facility. And maybe more in football facilities overall.
*UF has broken ground on one (FOF) and it's amazing. FSU hasn't even decided what it will build yet.
*UF is building a $50 baseball facility. FSU insiders openly state FSU baseball facility isn't even at the top of the ACC baseball facility list, LET ALONE the SEC which has about 5-6 new $50 million facilities built recently
*FSU is one of the only colleges in modern day football to lose a national title coach to another school. Money...or lack thereof was 100% a part of that.
*Every insider I know doesn't even debate that FSU doesn't have the money of it's football peers (ie SEC, UF, Clemson, Big 10) for staff (the shadow staff mainly), facilities, etc. They literally state it as fact. Without hesitation. Have for years.
*FSU has had a plan for MANY years to renovate Doak Cambell (totally $250-$400 Million) that it simply can't afford to do. But it is starting to be a structural issue and govt code is a big concern. See FSU's recent survey it sent to boosters to address this.
*FSU athletics has had 2-3 budget cuts in the last 5 years alone.
*FSU had how many decades without a losing season....last 3 years FSU has gone into the toilet. Coincidence? Maybe....I don't think people really think leadership is just unlucky.
*In the last 12-18 months, FSU boosters were forced to liquidate assets to cover budget short comings. Basically, it has resorted to going to it's emergency fund. This is BEFORE the huge hit coming for the current virus emergency.
That's just off the top of my head. I have ZERO doubt FSU has completely mismanaged the athletic dept. That doesn't mean they have done nothing right. That isn't how life works. But they have run the program into the ground.
Stick your head into the sand with that and gotcha moments, but the fans how aren't delusional at FSU know something is wrong.....HOPING it's changing, but none are extremely confident.
And even though FSU's admin is a mess....they are about to lose their AD, president, and 40 year booster president all within the next 18 months. None have a good escape plan. It will get worse at FSU.
This reminds me of decades of complaints by ND alumni and fans about the ND Administration.
They complained about the Holy Cross Fathers intentionally de-emphasizing football several times by getting rid of Hall of Fame coaches, raising internal academic requirements and self reducing football scholarships.
They complained about hiring a high school coach and several other lousy coaches without the necessary experience and ability to coach at Notre Dame.
They complained about hiring coaches on the cheap, not paying head and assistant coaches top dollar.
They complained about the lack of commitment to building adequate facilities, playing in an antiquated 59,000 seat stadium, then an inadequate 80,000 seat stadum without modern amenities, and also having neither a dedicated football facility nor a basketball practice facility.
Finally, after several decades, the good Fathers agreed to a $450 million dollar stadium renovation, put in a video board, installed Field Turf and upgraded the stadium, etc...
They also finally agreed after decades of saying no to build a dedicated basketball practice facility.
ND didn't even have an athletic training table until the end of the Weis era and the beginning of the Kelly era. Before that, athletes ate the same food as the dorm students, they all ate at residence dining halls on campus.
The Holy Cross Fathers always considered it an honor for any coach to work there, so ND was among the schools who paid comparatively the lowest coaching salaries for many years.
So, I get it. I understand the angst from FSU fans, despite the high revenues. Having those revenues is nice, but only part of the competitive equation.
A school needs an Administration totally dedicated to excellence in athletics or the programs will fall behind, despite how much cash it may have.
RE: ACC Football Spending By School - Wahoowa84 - 03-28-2020 09:12 AM
The expense “data” just doesn’t make numerical sense. FSU is supposedly spending 3 times more on football than most of the Tobacco Road schools. Taggart turned out to be a bad hire, but when he was originally selected it seemed like a solid choice. There are different levels of (in)competence, but suggesting that FSU has mismanaged 10s of millions of $ for the past 4+ years doesn’t seem likely. Specially since they are also claiming major increases in revenue. If you’re incompetent in managing spending, why are you competent in funding and revenue?
Seems like the schools are using these disclosures to placate their boosters preferences, rather than to provide true benchmark insights. The FSU data likely aligns with what their boosters are demanding...maybe FSU is just communicating that money is not reason why their football is so bad.