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+---- Thread: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions (/thread-896754.html)
Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - schmolik - 03-22-2020 08:03 AM
I posted a thread about the ACC's divisions in the P5 thread:
https://csnbbs.com/thread-896753.html
I don't know how you ACC fans think. From an outsider, I don't know who's in what division without looking it up.
The best divisional lineup I can come up with is an "Inner-Outer" one. Put the schools from Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina (Clemson) in the "Inner" division and everyone else in the "Outer" division. You can also call them "Old" and "New" except Virginia Tech would be in the Old division. You wouldn't need permanent crossover games so teams not in the same division would get to play more often. The Old division features all of the Carolina teams so they would play each other every season. All of the old Big East schools would play every season as would Miami and Florida State. The biggest problem I see is the travel budgets for the outer division teams would be higher as there will be yearly travel between the North and South.
Can you think of a better divisional alignment than my Inner-Outer plan? Can you think of a better divisional alignment than the current Atlantic-Coastal one (I don't think it would be too hard)? Would you want to be in Clemson's division because they sell tickets and give you better TV coverage or not in Clemson's division to give you a chance to win the division/make the ACC Championship game?
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - ChrisLords - 03-22-2020 09:01 AM
I like your inner outer divisions but would put VA NC and KY in one division and the rest in the other.
So,
Inner - Louisville, VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami
Instead of:
Inner -VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke, Clemson
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, GT, FSU, Miami
Clemson fans would probably prefer to be in same division as GT, FSU and Miami as opposed to 4 opponents in NC and 2 in VA every year.
Other than that, the current Atlantic-Coastal works best. Switching up divisions requires a 75% approval and ND probably doesn't get a vote. So 11 of 14 members have to agree to the new divisional alignment. Would GT, Clemson, FSU and Miami agree to playing BC, Cuse and Pitt every year and only occasionally going to NC and VA?
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Hokie Mark - 03-22-2020 12:09 PM
(03-22-2020 09:01 AM)ChrisLords Wrote: I like your inner outer divisions but would put VA NC and KY in one division and the rest in the other.
So,
Inner - Louisville, VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami
Instead of:
Inner -VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke, Clemson
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, GT, FSU, Miami
Clemson fans would probably prefer to be in same division as GT, FSU and Miami as opposed to 4 opponents in NC and 2 in VA every year.
Other than that, the current Atlantic-Coastal works best. Switching up divisions requires a 75% approval and ND probably doesn't get a vote. So 11 of 14 members have to agree to the new divisional alignment. Would GT, Clemson, FSU and Miami agree to playing BC, Cuse and Pitt every year and only occasionally going to NC and VA?
I agree with Chris. In fact, his divisions look awesome to me - when can we start?
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - ChrisLords - 03-22-2020 12:18 PM
(03-22-2020 12:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-22-2020 09:01 AM)ChrisLords Wrote: I like your inner outer divisions but would put VA NC and KY in one division and the rest in the other.
So,
Inner - Louisville, VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami
Instead of:
Inner -VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke, Clemson
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, GT, FSU, Miami
Clemson fans would probably prefer to be in same division as GT, FSU and Miami as opposed to 4 opponents in NC and 2 in VA every year.
Other than that, the current Atlantic-Coastal works best. Switching up divisions requires a 75% approval and ND probably doesn't get a vote. So 11 of 14 members have to agree to the new divisional alignment. Would GT, Clemson, FSU and Miami agree to playing BC, Cuse and Pitt every year and only occasionally going to NC and VA?
I agree with Chris. In fact, his divisions look awesome to me - when can we start?
I'd also set it up where in basketball you play everyone in your division home and away.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - georgia_tech_swagger - 03-22-2020 12:35 PM
I'll show my work.
Atlantic: Boston College, Clemson, Florida State, Louisville, NC State, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami (FL), North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Swap FSU for Miami. This should be fairly uncontroversial.
Atlantic: Boston College, Clemson, Louisville, Miami (FL), NC State, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Swap Pittsburgh for Clemson. This is a mixed bag but on the whole I still think it's overwhelmingly agreeable to membership.
Atlantic: Boston College, Louisville, Miami (FL), NC State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
I don't think you can make any further moves without seriously pissing somebody off. Divisionless is still the most ideal setup for the ACC as it is presently constituted.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - ken d - 03-22-2020 01:26 PM
(03-22-2020 12:35 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote: I'll show my work.
Atlantic: Boston College, Clemson, Florida State, Louisville, NC State, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami (FL), North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Swap FSU for Miami. This should be fairly uncontroversial.
Atlantic: Boston College, Clemson, Louisville, Miami (FL), NC State, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Swap Pittsburgh for Clemson. This is a mixed bag but on the whole I still think it's overwhelmingly agreeable to membership.
Atlantic: Boston College, Louisville, Miami (FL), NC State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
I don't think you can make any further moves without seriously pissing somebody off. Divisionless is still the most ideal setup for the ACC as it is presently constituted.
I don't know that you would piss anyone else off, but I don't think you could ever get the votes from the Atlantic Division schools to do this, even though most of them would win more conference games than they do now.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Statefan - 03-22-2020 02:23 PM
(03-22-2020 09:01 AM)ChrisLords Wrote: I like your inner outer divisions but would put VA NC and KY in one division and the rest in the other.
So,
Inner - Louisville, VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami
Instead of:
Inner -VT, UVA, UNC, NCST, WF, Duke, Clemson
Outer- BC, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, GT, FSU, Miami
Clemson fans would probably prefer to be in same division as GT, FSU and Miami as opposed to 4 opponents in NC and 2 in VA every year.
Other than that, the current Atlantic-Coastal works best. Switching up divisions requires a 75% approval and ND probably doesn't get a vote. So 11 of 14 members have to agree to the new divisional alignment. Would GT, Clemson, FSU and Miami agree to playing BC, Cuse and Pitt every year and only occasionally going to NC and VA?
The divisions are in the Sports Operations Code of the Bylaws and Constitution. You need only 8 of 14 votes to change divisions.
As a practical matter Duke, UNC, and UVa will all vote together regarding their division and they will require GT to be part of their division. You might as well start with GT/UVa/UNC/Duke.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - schmolik - 03-22-2020 04:05 PM
(03-22-2020 02:23 PM)Statefan Wrote: As a practical matter Duke, UNC, and UVa will all vote together regarding their division and they will require GT to be part of their division. You might as well start with GT/UVa/UNC/Duke.
Why do the others care if Georgia Tech is in their division?
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Kaplony - 03-22-2020 04:14 PM
(03-22-2020 04:05 PM)schmolik Wrote:(03-22-2020 02:23 PM)Statefan Wrote: As a practical matter Duke, UNC, and UVa will all vote together regarding their division and they will require GT to be part of their division. You might as well start with GT/UVa/UNC/Duke.
Why do the others care if Georgia Tech is in their division?
The urban myth is because there are supposedly high concentrations of graduates from the three mentioned schools in Atlanta. Fat lot of good it does them because just like everywhere else except the Triangle (and for some schools even in the Triangle) they don't show up in the stands.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Garrettabc - 03-22-2020 04:51 PM
It would be a good practice if it’s not already so that all ACC schools splits travel expenses. Obviously it would not be an extra burden on 7 schools that have to fly every where while the other 7 can usually bus.
Wake Forest should be with UNC, Duke, UVA or kicked completely to the curb.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Hokie Mark - 03-22-2020 05:26 PM
(03-22-2020 04:05 PM)schmolik Wrote:(03-22-2020 02:23 PM)Statefan Wrote: As a practical matter Duke, UNC, and UVa will all vote together regarding their division and they will require GT to be part of their division. You might as well start with GT/UVa/UNC/Duke.
Why do the others care if Georgia Tech is in their division?
I thought it was because they view each other as "peers" and thus, feel that they should play each other every year.
not that I agree with that line of thinking... be peers in academics; play neighbors in football!
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - esayem - 03-22-2020 05:31 PM
I would trade Syracuse or BC for either VaTech or Pitt and call it a day. There’s a whole matrix there you can dig into.
Clemson, and to a lesser extent, FSU fans, this is one thing I agree with: we currently have a flawed zipper. We’ll take one of the northern outposts and trade a mid-Atlantic state. Should have been done long ago.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - schmolik - 03-22-2020 05:46 PM
The goal should be to eliminate (or minimize) the number of protected rivalries and/or to make the divisions so everyone can figure out who is in which division. We in the Big Ten had "Leaders" and "Legends". We knew who was in what division. Do you? So we got rid of them. We could have always put Maryland in one division and Rutgers in the other one. If you just swap one team for another, you still need permanent rivals and no one will know who is in which division so what's the point?
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Statefan - 03-22-2020 05:49 PM
(03-22-2020 05:26 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-22-2020 04:05 PM)schmolik Wrote:(03-22-2020 02:23 PM)Statefan Wrote: As a practical matter Duke, UNC, and UVa will all vote together regarding their division and they will require GT to be part of their division. You might as well start with GT/UVa/UNC/Duke.
Why do the others care if Georgia Tech is in their division?
I thought it was because they view each other as "peers" and thus, feel that they should play each other every year.
not that I agree with that line of thinking... be peers in academics; play neighbors in football!
UNC/UVa/Duke have a socioeconomic affinity with Atlanta and GT is in Atlanta. Emory and the CDC are also in Atlanta but they don't play ball so to speak. This is a tie between folks above the rank and file traveling fan station in life. When people look at the tie through a sports fan lens, they miss the reality. They do not play for the purpose of football or any other sport, they play each other because they are in "the club". The pejorative that is usually used is "Wal Mart fan" someone who never attended the institution and who socioeconomically does not fit the "In" profile. In most of the ACC, Wal Mart fans don't count for **** - right or wrong.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - schmolik - 03-22-2020 06:14 PM
The North Carolina schools, Virginia schools, and Georgia Tech in the Inner Division, everyone else in the Outer Division.
Any permanent crossovers necessary? Any objections?
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Hokie Mark - 03-22-2020 06:16 PM
(03-22-2020 06:14 PM)schmolik Wrote: The North Carolina schools, Virginia schools, and Georgia Tech in the Inner Division, everyone else in the Outer Division.
Any permanent crossovers necessary? Any objections?
Clemson and Georgia Tech play each other annually and it's one of their biggest rivalries for both teams.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - esayem - 03-22-2020 06:32 PM
(03-22-2020 06:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:(03-22-2020 06:14 PM)schmolik Wrote: The North Carolina schools, Virginia schools, and Georgia Tech in the Inner Division, everyone else in the Outer Division.
Any permanent crossovers necessary? Any objections?
Clemson and Georgia Tech play each other annually and it's one of their biggest rivalries for both teams.
I think Clemson would trade a yearly game with GT for a yearly OOC with UGA.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Hokie Mark - 03-22-2020 06:33 PM
Possible tweak:
OUTER
Miami, Florida State, GT, Clemson, Pitt, Syracuse, BC
INNER
UNC, Duke, UVA, VT, NC State, Wake Forest, Louisville
Instead of annual crossovers, everyone in INNER plays 2 teams from OUTER, always offset by 4 on the list above:
HOME, AWAY
Miami, Pitt
FSU, Cuse
GT, BC
Clemson, Miami
Pitt, FSU
Cuse, GT
BC, Clemson
Thus, every team plays one of Miami, FSU, GT or Clemson, except one team which plays two of those teams. By the same token, every INNER team will play one of Pitt, Syracuse and BC except one team, which would not play any of those.
Division contenders
OUTER: Miami, FSU, Clemson primarily
INNER: UNC, VT, Louisville primarily
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - schmolik - 03-22-2020 07:01 PM
I have no problem with Louisville in the Inner and Georgia Tech in the Outer, the theory is that UNC/Duke/UVa want GaT in their division (which would be the Inner). If they're willing to let that go, we can have the Virginias, North Carolinas and Louisville in the Inner and everyone else in the Outer and have no protected crossovers as Hokie Mark suggested. If not, we either have the plan of Georgia Tech joining the Virginias and North Carolinas and keeping Georgia Tech-Clemson as a protected rivalry or we can do Old and New if the dividing line is the 1980's.
Old: Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech
New: Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville
Obviously then Virginia-Virginia Tech becomes a protected rivalry. I don't think you need to protect any others then. Here, Clemson is in with all of the North Carolina schools but loses the Florida ones.
RE: Switching Up the ACC's Divisions - Kaplony - 03-22-2020 08:44 PM
(03-22-2020 07:01 PM)schmolik Wrote: I have no problem with Louisville in the Inner and Georgia Tech in the Outer, the theory is that UNC/Duke/UVa want GaT in their division (which would be the Inner). If they're willing to let that go, we can have the Virginias, North Carolinas and Louisville in the Inner and everyone else in the Outer and have no protected crossovers as Hokie Mark suggested. If not, we either have the plan of Georgia Tech joining the Virginias and North Carolinas and keeping Georgia Tech-Clemson as a protected rivalry or we can do Old and New if the dividing line is the 1980's.
Old: Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech
New: Florida State, Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville
Obviously then Virginia-Virginia Tech becomes a protected rivalry. I don't think you need to protect any others then. Here, Clemson is in with all of the North Carolina schools but loses the Florida ones.
So we give up FSU for the useless NC schools and the French? No thanks.
If we were forced to pick one NC school to be stuck with I'd bet good money on it being Wake Forest. They are like the other three and don't travel, but their stadium is one of the nicest in the conference, their fans aren't psychopaths who murder people in tailgates or piss in the stands, and they don't forget about football once basketball tips off.