(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:13 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Liberty let students come back and not surprisingly they got sick. Maybe experts need to force us to act right to save lives?

You can have that country. I'll keep my Constitutional Republic.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

And thats fine. My country will have more people alive.

Are you sure about that? Seems a bit shortsighted. COVID is not the only cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:13 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Liberty let students come back and not surprisingly they got sick. Maybe experts need to force us to act right to save lives?

You can have that country. I'll keep my Constitutional Republic.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

And thats fine. My country will have more people alive.

Are you sure about that? Seems a bit shortsighted. COVID is not the only cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

(04-09-2020 06:55 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:37 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  You can have that country. I'll keep my Constitutional Republic.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

And thats fine. My country will have more people alive.

Are you sure about that? Seems a bit shortsighted. COVID is not the only cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

If you want the government to control everything you do, move to a communist country. The trend I've seen among the majority of these posts is this, your opinion of this virus and how to combat it, is solely rooted in your political affiliation.

Some want Trump to lock everything down and give an executive order mandating this.

As soon as this happens some would be bitching saying hes abusing his power like we've heard numerous times before.

Why can no one speak of this virus without pointing blame at someone else. No one cares what your political affiliation is. Last time I checked every American was in this together. Shame on the ones still looking to cast blame.

Id love to see some of you bright souls try to run a country.

(04-09-2020 07:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 06:55 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 04:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  And thats fine. My country will have more people alive.

Are you sure about that? Seems a bit shortsighted. COVID is not the only cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

If you want the government to control everything you do, move to a communist country. The trend I've seen among the majority of these posts is this, your opinion of this virus and how to combat it, is solely rooted in your political affiliation.

Some want Trump to lock everything down and give an executive order mandating this.

As soon as this happens some would be bitching saying hes abusing his power like we've heard numerous times before.

Why can no one speak of this virus without pointing blame at someone else. No one cares what your political affiliation is. Last time I checked every American was in this together. Shame on the ones still looking to cast blame.

Id love to see some of you bright souls try to run a country.

Im a republican. If you real think its has anything to do with politics, your clouded.

I dont want the government to control everything I do. I want them to control people for a summer to keep me and my loved ones safe from the worst strain of virus we've ever seem.

(04-09-2020 07:25 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 07:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 06:55 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Are you sure about that? Seems a bit shortsighted. COVID is not the only cause of death.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

If you want the government to control everything you do, move to a communist country. The trend I've seen among the majority of these posts is this, your opinion of this virus and how to combat it, is solely rooted in your political affiliation.

Some want Trump to lock everything down and give an executive order mandating this.

As soon as this happens some would be bitching saying hes abusing his power like we've heard numerous times before.

Why can no one speak of this virus without pointing blame at someone else. No one cares what your political affiliation is. Last time I checked every American was in this together. Shame on the ones still looking to cast blame.

Id love to see some of you bright souls try to run a country.

Im a republican. If you real think its has anything to do with politics, your clouded.

I dont want the government to control everything I do. I want them to control people for a summer to keep me and my loved ones safe from the worst strain of virus we've ever seem.

Not clouded at all. One simply has to read through the 28 pages of "opinions" on this topic.

(04-09-2020 09:00 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 07:25 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 07:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 06:55 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

If you want the government to control everything you do, move to a communist country. The trend I've seen among the majority of these posts is this, your opinion of this virus and how to combat it, is solely rooted in your political affiliation.

Some want Trump to lock everything down and give an executive order mandating this.

As soon as this happens some would be bitching saying hes abusing his power like we've heard numerous times before.

Why can no one speak of this virus without pointing blame at someone else. No one cares what your political affiliation is. Last time I checked every American was in this together. Shame on the ones still looking to cast blame.

Id love to see some of you bright souls try to run a country.

Im a republican. If you real think its has anything to do with politics, your clouded.

I dont want the government to control everything I do. I want them to control people for a summer to keep me and my loved ones safe from the worst strain of virus we've ever seem.

Not clouded at all. One simply has to read through the 28 pages of "opinions" on this topic.

I think you're seeing the "NeverTrump" responses, that are democrats, basically blaming everything on him at every turn regardless. You're extrapolating that to mean all democrats must want the economy to crash to blame it on Trump or are completely ok with the Fed Gov dictating and running their lives. The old joke "Not all people with mustaches are pedophiles, but all pedophiles have mustaches" comes to mind.

This event has my Facebook feed all jacked up. Compassion, fear, and empathy don't stop at political lines. I've got hard core far right family (Obama was a Muslim and hated America types) and friend republicans that are screaming for people to stay at home and making masks and doing what they can to help. And some extremely liberal friends thinking we over reacted and this feels like federal overreach. Quite honestly it might be what we need to jog our views of each other a little bit and be more civil and listen a little more our discourse. Because party lines don't mean anything at the end of the day. Everyone will take care of their family and neighbor without hesitation. Unless you borrowed a tool and didn't return it. Then you're on your own, Steve! =] And the sooner we can get back to debating our politics and stop the ad hominem and identify politics the soon we CAN make America great again.

Love with your heart, use your brain for everything else. (Credit: Captain Disillusion)

(04-09-2020 09:00 AM)bit_9 Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 07:25 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 07:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 06:55 AM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Yeah, Im 100% sure a lot more people would die if we let people roam free in the streets.

If you want the government to control everything you do, move to a communist country. The trend I've seen among the majority of these posts is this, your opinion of this virus and how to combat it, is solely rooted in your political affiliation.

Some want Trump to lock everything down and give an executive order mandating this.

As soon as this happens some would be bitching saying hes abusing his power like we've heard numerous times before.

Why can no one speak of this virus without pointing blame at someone else. No one cares what your political affiliation is. Last time I checked every American was in this together. Shame on the ones still looking to cast blame.

Id love to see some of you bright souls try to run a country.

Im a republican. If you real think its has anything to do with politics, your clouded.

I dont want the government to control everything I do. I want them to control people for a summer to keep me and my loved ones safe from the worst strain of virus we've ever seem.

Not clouded at all. One simply has to read through the 28 pages of "opinions" on this topic.

I think you're seeing the "NeverTrump" responses, that are democrats, basically blaming everything on him at every turn regardless. You're extrapolating that to mean all democrats must want the economy to crash to blame it on Trump or are completely ok with the Fed Gov dictating and running their lives. The old joke "Not all people with mustaches are pedophiles, but all pedophiles have mustaches" comes to mind.

This event has my Facebook feed all jacked up. Compassion, fear, and empathy don't stop at political lines. I've got hard core far right family (Obama was a Muslim and hated America types) and friend republicans that are screaming for people to stay at home and making masks and doing what they can to help. And some extremely liberal friends thinking we over reacted and this feels like federal overreach. Quite honestly it might be what we need to jog our views of each other a little bit and be more civil and listen a little more our discourse. Because party lines don't mean anything at the end of the day. Everyone will take care of their family and neighbor without hesitation. Unless you borrowed a tool and didn't return it. Then you're on your own, Steve! =] And the sooner we can get back to debating our politics and stop the ad hominem and identify politics the soon we CAN make America great again.

Love with your heart, use your brain for everything else. (Credit: Captain Disillusion)

(04-09-2020 09:21 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  LOL, we screwed up as a country (who cares what political lines you are). Why would we not place blame? Should we just ignore that we screwed up? It was a total failure. We are all in this together, but that doesn't absolve us from our mistakes.

Place blame where you want to place blame but we have a death rate that is 3x what it should be. Hopefully we all get out of this in the next 6 weeks and learn to take things serious next time.

(04-09-2020 09:51 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 09:21 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  LOL, we screwed up as a country (who cares what political lines you are). Why would we not place blame? Should we just ignore that we screwed up? It was a total failure. We are all in this together, but that doesn't absolve us from our mistakes.

Place blame where you want to place blame but we have a death rate that is 3x what it should be. Hopefully we all get out of this in the next 6 weeks and learn to take things serious next time.

That "total failure" has taken the expected fatality number from like 2M in the early days to flu territory. If there was a massive failure, it was committing to one, obviously flawed, model and then wrecking the entire economy based on those wild assumptions.

I know, you will say it is just evidence that social distancing worked, but those assumptions that were 4x the current prediction (which is probably still high at 60K) supposedly accounted for social distancing. The reality is that the models blew it, which nobody will ever admit. They built those models on available data, and did not even allow for the possibility that the models were a mess because the data they had was useless. Why was the data obviously useless?

1. It was based on number of confirmed cases, not actual cases. We know that because it took time for testing to ramp up, confirmed cases were a more severe subset of the total number of cases. That makes the fatality rate look much higher.

2. The numbers were distorted by the worst hotspots. With a lack of widespread data, the vast majority of confirmed cases were coming from densely populated areas in China, Italy, and NYC because that is where the virus was/is spreading. The models weighted the situation in those areas far more than the data for normal cities. This is obvious if you look at cases/fatalities on a locale by locale basis. The models look a lot more accurate when you apply them to NYC than when you apply them to VB.

3. The models relied heavily on data from China because that was the data that was available early in the process. We know that data is not accurate.

(04-09-2020 10:00 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The 2 million estimate was based on doing nothing as a country. Maybe total failure is strong bc we did better than "nothing."

So we have a death rate that is 3x what it should be based on percentage of population, we are stuck at home, and the economy has tanked. Should this be considered anything other than a failure?

Granted, social distancing measures are needed right now and have been done. Thats because we are paying for our sins in December, January, and February.

(04-09-2020 10:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-09-2020 10:00 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The 2 million estimate was based on doing nothing as a country. Maybe total failure is strong bc we did better than "nothing."

So we have a death rate that is 3x what it should be based on percentage of population, we are stuck at home, and the economy has tanked. Should this be considered anything other than a failure?

Granted, social distancing measures are needed right now and have been done. Thats because we are paying for our sins in December, January, and February.

I don't believe this, but I don't understand how you cannot... If 2M is the estimate based on doing nothing, and we have brought that number down to 60k, which in reality, probably ends up being more like 30K if you consider the fact that every model that ever models anything seems to be wrong in the same direction... too high, then how can you say we have been a total failure?

Your "based on percentage of population" assertion is a really basic way of looking at things. I think we can agree that the situation was handled poorly in NY. If you take one city out of the mix, your assessment would need to change dramatically. Your method also does not account for differences in the ways that countries apply cause of death. We know that Italy has gone back and determined that as few as 12.5% of the deaths they originally attributed to COVID, were not in fact COVID caused deaths. We are beginning to see the same questions raised here. We do know that we see a significant reduction in Pneumonia attributed deaths this year, which tends to indicate that we are attributing too many deaths to COVID at this time. It just isn't an apples to apples way to assess the numbers at all.

(04-09-2020 10:35 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Maybe it's a matter of perspective. Virginia cases are at 4,000. Honestly, if that number was 5x and was sitting at 20,000 with 500 deaths, I'd still be wondering if it made sense to shut down the entire state economy over this.

(04-09-2020 10:37 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  On top of that, the "based on percentage of population" assertion requires believing the Chinese numbers since that skews the data significantly. If you look at it country by country, we are doing better than almost everyone with believable data. And the only believable country that has 1/3 our death rate per million is Canada and the vast majority of Canada is either mountainous or tundra with little travel.