(11-16-2020 02:27 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Virus is gonna virus.

(11-16-2020 04:49 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  The survey question asks people if they have worn a mask outside the home in the last 7 days. So if they have worn it at least once, they can answer positively. I think regularly using masks should be the question to ask. I think the numbers would be much lower.

And whatever people thought in May about how this virus would spread, it has changed by now. I certainly am not expecting anything to cause numbers to plummet. I would hope we can make it manageable though. Masks are not the panacea, just a tool in the toolbox.

Quote:More than eight-in-ten U.S. adults (85%) say they have done so all or most of the time over the past month, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted Aug. 3 to 16. When asked the same question in early June, 65% of Americans said they had been regularly wearing masks.

(11-16-2020 04:08 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  There really are no heroes in this affair - - EXCEPT for the folks in the distribution chain (from grocery store shelf stockers to Amazon delivery drivers), who kept our country functioning while everyone else was either attempting to leverage the crisis or being economically and socially sidelined by it.

(11-16-2020 04:55 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 04:49 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  The survey question asks people if they have worn a mask outside the home in the last 7 days. So if they have worn it at least once, they can answer positively. I think regularly using masks should be the question to ask. I think the numbers would be much lower.

And whatever people thought in May about how this virus would spread, it has changed by now. I certainly am not expecting anything to cause numbers to plummet. I would hope we can make it manageable though. Masks are not the panacea, just a tool in the toolbox.

Pew asked the question your way:

Quote:More than eight-in-ten U.S. adults (85%) say they have done so all or most of the time over the past month, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted Aug. 3 to 16. When asked the same question in early June, 65% of Americans said they had been regularly wearing masks.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/27/more-americans-say-they-are-regularly-wearing-masks-in-stores-and-other-businesses/

(11-16-2020 01:52 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 12:03 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  If our leaders do nothing and the virus overwhelms the population to the point that people are turned away from hospitals, then they will be vilified. If they do too much so that people feel isolated and depressed or resistant, then they will be vilified.

A true dilemma. Here's a few things they could have done to alleviate some of it:

1. Don't lie. This is an across-the-board problem. From the WHO flat out covering up for the Communist Chinese government - - to President Trump claiming that he was on top of the problem, which would be fully under control "by Easter" - - to Joe Biden claiming he was an early proponent of stringent travel bans, despite video evidence of him calling the president xenophobic for doing exactly that - - to Dr. Fauci admitting that he'd lied about the importance of masks to avoid a run on medical supplies. Lying to the American people was not the way to approach this situation. Shame on everyone involved.

2. Don't move the goalposts. Despite media denials (these folks truly are shameless), the initial lockdown was very clearly sold to the American population as "15 days to flatten the curve". That's on the Trump administration. They were either too incompetent to know any better, or they were speaking out of their butts and now are unwilling to admit it. That is also on the Democrats, who decided to play this for political advantage - - without caring a whit for the damage they were doing to our economy, to our students and to our society. But, hey, at least they won the election! Whatever faith the American population may have been willing to put in our leaders, they've squandered it. The most recent thing I've seen is a pronouncement by one of Joe Biden's coronavirus experts telling us that we need to lockdown for "four to six weeks". I don't believe it, and will resist (nonviolently) to the best I am able.

3. Knock off the hypocrisy. Churches are super-spreader events, but monument protests and destruction are just fine. Trump rallies are dangerously irresponsible, but Biden celebrations are a needed release for a hurting nation. Masks must be worn at all times, unless you are Governor Northam hoping for a media picture with a supportive black family on the Virginia Beach boardwalk over the Memorial Day weekend.

For leaders who are concerned about being "vilified", they sure seem to be doing everything in their power to deserve it.

(11-16-2020 05:10 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  OK. Not what I'm seeing but I don't have anything to back that up.

(11-16-2020 12:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The problem with the masks mandates is that you cannot argue against them. If cases go down, "Masks work!" if cases go up, "You need to wear MORE masks."

There is literally no argument to which the proponents of masks will listen.

(11-16-2020 07:09 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I can back up Chillie on this one. There are surprising differences in mask usage among the various Norfolk zip codes. For the record, if the place of business says masks required, I wear one.

But this does not displace Coach’s greater point:

(11-16-2020 12:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The problem with the masks mandates is that you cannot argue against them. If cases go down, "Masks work!" if cases go up, "You need to wear MORE masks."

There is literally no argument to which the proponents of masks will listen.

Your 92-year-old grandma needs to be careful, Chillie, as do diabetics, the obese, immuno-compromised, etc.

My assistant’s 8-yr.-old and 11-yr.-old daughters, and my colleague’s middle-school and high-school kids do not need to be careful.

Most important, the “one death is too many” crowd needs to knock it off, and pay some heed to the greater damage they are doing with their unbalanced overreaction to this virus. This is my main beef with masks: they have become a go-to excuse for perpetuating lockdowns by those who seem to think that others should bear the brunt of their fears - - whether real or not. Masks are almost beside the point. It is the needless lockdowns that will destroy us.

(11-17-2020 08:41 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 07:09 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I can back up Chillie on this one. There are surprising differences in mask usage among the various Norfolk zip codes. For the record, if the place of business says masks required, I wear one.

But this does not displace Coach’s greater point:

(11-16-2020 12:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The problem with the masks mandates is that you cannot argue against them. If cases go down, "Masks work!" if cases go up, "You need to wear MORE masks."

There is literally no argument to which the proponents of masks will listen.

Your 92-year-old grandma needs to be careful, Chillie, as do diabetics, the obese, immuno-compromised, etc.

My assistant’s 8-yr.-old and 11-yr.-old daughters, and my colleague’s middle-school and high-school kids do not need to be careful.

Most important, the “one death is too many” crowd needs to knock it off, and pay some heed to the greater damage they are doing with their unbalanced overreaction to this virus. This is my main beef with masks: they have become a go-to excuse for perpetuating lockdowns by those who seem to think that others should bear the brunt of their fears - - whether real or not. Masks are almost beside the point. It is the needless lockdowns that will destroy us.

Like I said, y'all come on out to SWVA and see how compliant people are being with masks.

1 death is too many? We'll be pushing 2,000/ day very soon. We've passed a quarter million already and will likely double that by spring. What greater damage are you referring to? Economic? Depression? Those have remedies. The wildfire that is currently the Covid spread could only be contained by a lockdown. I'm not sure these half measures are worth the trouble though.

(11-17-2020 09:14 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:41 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 07:09 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I can back up Chillie on this one. There are surprising differences in mask usage among the various Norfolk zip codes. For the record, if the place of business says masks required, I wear one.

But this does not displace Coach’s greater point:

(11-16-2020 12:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The problem with the masks mandates is that you cannot argue against them. If cases go down, "Masks work!" if cases go up, "You need to wear MORE masks."

There is literally no argument to which the proponents of masks will listen.

Your 92-year-old grandma needs to be careful, Chillie, as do diabetics, the obese, immuno-compromised, etc.

My assistant’s 8-yr.-old and 11-yr.-old daughters, and my colleague’s middle-school and high-school kids do not need to be careful.

Most important, the “one death is too many” crowd needs to knock it off, and pay some heed to the greater damage they are doing with their unbalanced overreaction to this virus. This is my main beef with masks: they have become a go-to excuse for perpetuating lockdowns by those who seem to think that others should bear the brunt of their fears - - whether real or not. Masks are almost beside the point. It is the needless lockdowns that will destroy us.

Like I said, y'all come on out to SWVA and see how compliant people are being with masks.

1 death is too many? We'll be pushing 2,000/ day very soon. We've passed a quarter million already and will likely double that by spring. What greater damage are you referring to? Economic? Depression? Those have remedies. The wildfire that is currently the Covid spread could only be contained by a lockdown. I'm not sure these half measures are worth the trouble though.

Europe has proven that lockdowns don't work. The virus just came back with a vengeance as soon as the restrictions were lifted. I get that you have a gut reaction telling you somebody has to do something, but the something doesn't work, and it causes massive problems. We shouldn't do something just for the sake of saying we are doing something. Sometimes there just isn't an easy answer that you can fit on a bumper sticker.

(11-17-2020 09:26 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 09:14 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:41 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 07:09 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I can back up Chillie on this one. There are surprising differences in mask usage among the various Norfolk zip codes. For the record, if the place of business says masks required, I wear one.

But this does not displace Coach’s greater point:

(11-16-2020 12:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  The problem with the masks mandates is that you cannot argue against them. If cases go down, "Masks work!" if cases go up, "You need to wear MORE masks."

There is literally no argument to which the proponents of masks will listen.

Your 92-year-old grandma needs to be careful, Chillie, as do diabetics, the obese, immuno-compromised, etc.

My assistant’s 8-yr.-old and 11-yr.-old daughters, and my colleague’s middle-school and high-school kids do not need to be careful.

Most important, the “one death is too many” crowd needs to knock it off, and pay some heed to the greater damage they are doing with their unbalanced overreaction to this virus. This is my main beef with masks: they have become a go-to excuse for perpetuating lockdowns by those who seem to think that others should bear the brunt of their fears - - whether real or not. Masks are almost beside the point. It is the needless lockdowns that will destroy us.

Like I said, y'all come on out to SWVA and see how compliant people are being with masks.

1 death is too many? We'll be pushing 2,000/ day very soon. We've passed a quarter million already and will likely double that by spring. What greater damage are you referring to? Economic? Depression? Those have remedies. The wildfire that is currently the Covid spread could only be contained by a lockdown. I'm not sure these half measures are worth the trouble though.

Europe has proven that lockdowns don't work. The virus just came back with a vengeance as soon as the restrictions were lifted. I get that you have a gut reaction telling you somebody has to do something, but the something doesn't work, and it causes massive problems. We shouldn't do something just for the sake of saying we are doing something. Sometimes there just isn't an easy answer that you can fit on a bumper sticker.

No it didn't. It was controlled through most of the summer and are just now having a fall/winter surge that has taken it out of control. Take a look at some new daily cases graphs. Covid fatigue is likely to blame there as well as it is here. It's about to get real ugly though.

(11-17-2020 09:36 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 09:26 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 09:14 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-17-2020 08:41 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(11-16-2020 07:09 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I can back up Chillie on this one. There are surprising differences in mask usage among the various Norfolk zip codes. For the record, if the place of business says masks required, I wear one.

But this does not displace Coach’s greater point:


Your 92-year-old grandma needs to be careful, Chillie, as do diabetics, the obese, immuno-compromised, etc.

My assistant’s 8-yr.-old and 11-yr.-old daughters, and my colleague’s middle-school and high-school kids do not need to be careful.

Most important, the “one death is too many” crowd needs to knock it off, and pay some heed to the greater damage they are doing with their unbalanced overreaction to this virus. This is my main beef with masks: they have become a go-to excuse for perpetuating lockdowns by those who seem to think that others should bear the brunt of their fears - - whether real or not. Masks are almost beside the point. It is the needless lockdowns that will destroy us.

Like I said, y'all come on out to SWVA and see how compliant people are being with masks.

1 death is too many? We'll be pushing 2,000/ day very soon. We've passed a quarter million already and will likely double that by spring. What greater damage are you referring to? Economic? Depression? Those have remedies. The wildfire that is currently the Covid spread could only be contained by a lockdown. I'm not sure these half measures are worth the trouble though.

Europe has proven that lockdowns don't work. The virus just came back with a vengeance as soon as the restrictions were lifted. I get that you have a gut reaction telling you somebody has to do something, but the something doesn't work, and it causes massive problems. We shouldn't do something just for the sake of saying we are doing something. Sometimes there just isn't an easy answer that you can fit on a bumper sticker.

No it didn't. It was controlled through most of the summer and are just now having a fall/winter surge that has taken it out of control. Take a look at some new daily cases graphs. Covid fatigue is likely to blame there as well as it is here. It's about to get real ugly though.

Or, contrarily, the virus is just going to virus weather you strap a washcloth to your face, close bars at 10pm, vote for a democrat, or anything else short of welding people into their homes. We should place our focus where it matter. Where it has always mattered, the vulnerable.