(02-19-2020 09:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?

Concerning the original question, I think we know the true answer: David St. has to predict it.

(02-19-2020 09:33 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Has David mentioned Dayton once? He must know of a flaw that holds Dayton from upward mobility for all of eternity.

(02-15-2020 12:23 PM)panite Wrote:  

(02-11-2020 09:18 PM)CoastalVANDAL Wrote:  

(02-11-2020 07:26 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It took 2 national title appearances for Butler to get noticed by the A-10 and then the BE.

What does Dayton have to do to prove that they are worthy?

I think the ACC will quit the special treatment for ND all or nothing.

Notre Dame will then join with true independent in football.

I doubt that the ACC will boot ND. Its a great institutional fit with Wake, NC, Duke, and Virginia. It is also a great fit with other OBE schools Pitt, Syracuse, and BC. ND and the ACC are tied together at the hip for the long run even if it's FB program remains independent which it in all likelihood will.

(02-19-2020 03:45 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 04:44 PM)torch Wrote:  If the ACC/B1G flirt with MSG again in ~2028 and potentially pose a threat, I could see the addition of Dayton’s fan base as a reaction. Outside of that, I don’t see any other immediate cause for their addition. If the BE wants to make their television package more valuable, Saint Louis is the better option. If they want to expand their footprint into a talent-rich state for recruiting, one of the Richmonds is the better option. It all boils down to the (if any) reason for expansion.

That’s an interesting take on Dayton as leverage for fan interest. That type of selection seems to be the path the Big East at least considers. People talk about the rightness of fit for Creighton over Saint Louis and can’t overlook location...have they been to a Creighton game or see how their people travel? The Big East saw that.

I doubt the conference will invest in a “market school” at this point, having opted for Creighton and now UConn. There may be interest in a twelfth school...still guessing that’s the logistics of Gonzaga. This conference wants quality. It doesn’t need an anchor just because of the zip code it brings.

Not good for Dayton either way, I suspect, unless you need a school that brings fans out.

(02-19-2020 09:18 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 09:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?

Concerning the original question, I think we know the true answer: David St. has to predict it.

He's more concerned about making a prediction that Hiram College and Ohio Wesleyan will be making a move up to the FBS.

(02-19-2020 03:07 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Frank the Tank's observation about UCONN's impact for MSG is spot on. It's my understanding that the new Big East has never sold out (all sessions) of the conference tournament since the split.

(02-19-2020 06:52 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:07 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Frank the Tank's observation about UCONN's impact for MSG is spot on. It's my understanding that the new Big East has never sold out (all sessions) of the conference tournament since the split.

2018: "The conference averaged 18,790 fans at the arena for the duration of its conference tournament last week, filling the Garden to nearly 95 percent capacity. Those figures were better than any of the Power Five conference tournaments, even with two others held in New York — including the Big Ten the previous week at MSG...The Big East sold out the Garden three times in five sessions, while the Big Ten had one sellout in seven sessions and averaged nearly 15,200 fans."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/03/16/big-east-beats-power-five-on-conference-tourney-attendance/32988647/

2019: "The 2019 BIG EAST Men’s Basketball Tournament concluded on Saturday night with a 74-72 Villanova victory over Seton Hall, in front of a record sellout crowd of 19,812 – making it the fourth session of the week to post a full sellout.
The four sellouts in five sessions during the championship week are a first for the BIG EAST Conference."

http://www.bigeast.com/mobile/news.aspx?filename=mens-basketball-2019-big-east-championship-caps-banner-attendance-week&file_date=3/16/2019

(02-20-2020 09:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 06:52 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:07 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Frank the Tank's observation about UCONN's impact for MSG is spot on. It's my understanding that the new Big East has never sold out (all sessions) of the conference tournament since the split.

2018: "The conference averaged 18,790 fans at the arena for the duration of its conference tournament last week, filling the Garden to nearly 95 percent capacity. Those figures were better than any of the Power Five conference tournaments, even with two others held in New York — including the Big Ten the previous week at MSG...The Big East sold out the Garden three times in five sessions, while the Big Ten had one sellout in seven sessions and averaged nearly 15,200 fans."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/03/16/big-east-beats-power-five-on-conference-tourney-attendance/32988647/

2019: "The 2019 BIG EAST Men’s Basketball Tournament concluded on Saturday night with a 74-72 Villanova victory over Seton Hall, in front of a record sellout crowd of 19,812 – making it the fourth session of the week to post a full sellout.
The four sellouts in five sessions during the championship week are a first for the BIG EAST Conference."

http://www.bigeast.com/mobile/news.aspx?filename=mens-basketball-2019-big-east-championship-caps-banner-attendance-week&file_date=3/16/2019

Thanks for posting. Impressive.

(02-20-2020 10:38 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The "draw" of Dayton is not necessarily their top-10 program right now (which is great for the school and their program), but rather their passionate and committed fan base that sells out UD Arena (and travels very well to away games). Gaining another passionate basketball fan base could only help the exposure and reach of the Big East (especially with a school like Dayton, that has many alums in BE markets). UConn's addition clearly helps the "top" of the BE; any additional members need to provide value to the middle (and even help elevate the bottom in some way).

I've said it for years, but I do think it is inevitable that both SLU and UD eventually get called-up to the Big East. The conference reorganized and re-established itself from 2013-2019, solidifying itself as a power basketball conference; with UConn coming aboard, it can once again enter a period of growth and expand its reach and perception for the next couple of years (likely until 2024-2025). At that point, expanding once again (and perhaps in increments) to 12, 13 or possibly 14 to maximize its values as the most valuable non-football conference (and one of the best top-to-bottom basketball conferences in the country) seems like a strong possibility.

(02-20-2020 12:00 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 10:38 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The "draw" of Dayton is not necessarily their top-10 program right now (which is great for the school and their program), but rather their passionate and committed fan base that sells out UD Arena (and travels very well to away games). Gaining another passionate basketball fan base could only help the exposure and reach of the Big East (especially with a school like Dayton, that has many alums in BE markets). UConn's addition clearly helps the "top" of the BE; any additional members need to provide value to the middle (and even help elevate the bottom in some way).

I've said it for years, but I do think it is inevitable that both SLU and UD eventually get called-up to the Big East. The conference reorganized and re-established itself from 2013-2019, solidifying itself as a power basketball conference; with UConn coming aboard, it can once again enter a period of growth and expand its reach and perception for the next couple of years (likely until 2024-2025). At that point, expanding once again (and perhaps in increments) to 12, 13 or possibly 14 to maximize its values as the most valuable non-football conference (and one of the best top-to-bottom basketball conferences in the country) seems like a strong possibility.

I guess the question I have is...why is St. Louis, not the school/program, but actual market so important than, say, Richmond, Charlotte, Louisville, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Boston, or any other place not currently housing a Big East school?

For all we know, SLU could face the same hypothetical resistance as Dayton. That schools like Creighton, Butler, Marquette, and DePaul could have no problems drawing from the region for recruiting purposes?

I know SLU is better than programs like Richmond, Davidson, etc., but, I can't not look at how a conference wouldn't want to settle down in an area that bleeds for the sport. Someone closer to Louisville, or in the Carolinas...or, heck, further stockpile in the northeast (east of Ohio).

I look at SLU and UD about the same, I guess. One's definitely a better program, but neither really do ultimately that much more for the conference? Is that wrong or bad to feel?

(02-20-2020 12:00 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 10:38 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The "draw" of Dayton is not necessarily their top-10 program right now (which is great for the school and their program), but rather their passionate and committed fan base that sells out UD Arena (and travels very well to away games). Gaining another passionate basketball fan base could only help the exposure and reach of the Big East (especially with a school like Dayton, that has many alums in BE markets). UConn's addition clearly helps the "top" of the BE; any additional members need to provide value to the middle (and even help elevate the bottom in some way).

I've said it for years, but I do think it is inevitable that both SLU and UD eventually get called-up to the Big East. The conference reorganized and re-established itself from 2013-2019, solidifying itself as a power basketball conference; with UConn coming aboard, it can once again enter a period of growth and expand its reach and perception for the next couple of years (likely until 2024-2025). At that point, expanding once again (and perhaps in increments) to 12, 13 or possibly 14 to maximize its values as the most valuable non-football conference (and one of the best top-to-bottom basketball conferences in the country) seems like a strong possibility.

I guess the question I have is...why is St. Louis, not the school/program, but actual market so important than, say, Richmond, Charlotte, Louisville, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Boston, or any other place not currently housing a Big East school?

For all we know, SLU could face the same hypothetical resistance as Dayton. That schools like Creighton, Butler, Marquette, and DePaul could have no problems drawing from the region for recruiting purposes?

I know SLU is better than programs like Richmond, Davidson, etc., but, I can't not look at how a conference wouldn't want to settle down in an area that bleeds for the sport. Someone closer to Louisville, or in the Carolinas...or, heck, further stockpile in the northeast (east of Ohio).

I look at SLU and UD about the same, I guess. One's definitely a better program, but neither really do ultimately that much more for the conference? Is that wrong or bad to feel?

(02-20-2020 12:41 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  One key reason for the Big East to invite SLU is that it's a Catholic university. Notwithstanding Butler (which has a Methodist history) and UConn, the BE is a Catholic league. And that is one of the main reasons I like it. I strongly favor the BE adding SLU, Dayton and, for example, Duquesne.

For the Big East, I simply prefer 12 over 11 and 14 over 12. But 14 would/should be the max. And I strongly favor future additions being Catholic schools. UConn (for obvious reasons) was an exception, and I understand the Butler add (tremendous history, arena and fan base in a very underrated city with a "basketball culture").

(02-20-2020 03:17 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2020 12:41 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  One key reason for the Big East to invite SLU is that it's a Catholic university. Notwithstanding Butler (which has a Methodist history) and UConn, the BE is a Catholic league. And that is one of the main reasons I like it. I strongly favor the BE adding SLU, Dayton and, for example, Duquesne.

For the Big East, I simply prefer 12 over 11 and 14 over 12. But 14 would/should be the max. And I strongly favor future additions being Catholic schools. UConn (for obvious reasons) was an exception, and I understand the Butler add (tremendous history, arena and fan base in a very underrated city with a "basketball culture").

They've opened their doors to non-Catholic schools. To me, the "Catholic" affiliation thing doesn't mean much.

I mean, if you want to go into other "unclaimed" cities by way of the Catholic school, you have them in Detroit, Pittsburgh, and soon to be in Louisville. The territory mustn't be that important to reach into those cities for such "similar" programs; the programs themselves don't add much to the conference.

Conversely, I think the affiliation with UConn will be the one-time-only thing the conference will do with a public school. Or, it's going to take more than a UMass, VCU, or Wichita State to move that needle any.

(02-20-2020 02:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s say the Big East has 5 teams in the tournament and the ACC has 7. Both conferences got 50% of their schools into the dance but to the casual viewer the ACC’s 7 schools appears to be a far better showing than the Big East’s 5.

For reasons like that I think the Big East is better off as a larger conference than a smaller one. If you can bring other likeminded institutions into the fold that fit the geographic footprint and are consistent performers in basketball you’re going to boost you’re total number of bids and appear more on par with the large 14 member conferences like the ACC, Big Ten, and SEC.

I think Dayton and St Louis can help with that in the Midwest and on the East Coast someone like Richmond, VCU, UMass, or a Catholic school like Duquesne could enhance the overall image of the conference.

Presto! 14 team conference.

(02-19-2020 09:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  What does Dayton, or anyone else, have to do to get into the BE?

Concerning the original question, I think we know the true answer: David St. has to predict it.

(02-20-2020 03:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  SLU really creates a bridge with Creighton (Omaha) for travel purposes (more for Olympic sports).

Quote:Davidson, as a liberal arts college, is too small and not in a big enough city to be seriously considered for the BE, IMO. Most of their home games are between 3k-4k, which is not big enough - and their arena would be by far the smallest default arena in the conference.