(01-23-2020 09:42 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 09:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 08:34 AM)zibby Wrote:  

(01-22-2020 06:17 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  This is the beginning of the "New East Coast Conference" comprised of schools in the SunBelt and C-USA.

Couldn't they do this on their own? The C-USA East Division could bail then add App State, Georgia Southern and James Madison. Or another Sun Belt team. Or a C-USA West team.

We wouldn't have an autobid for many years. It seems they're going to create a new conference using the ASUN's continuity that will have the autobid. So why the CCSA? Why would this swimming & diving conference go along with the ASUN's plan? Take a look at it's membership. A lot of CUSA-E and Sun Belt-E teams that have in the past voiced displeasure of the spread out geography. I think Blue Trombone is right, this is the beginning of the east coast FBS conference. Sun Belt and CUSA were never going to sit down and work out swaps so the members had to work out some sort of coup. They may have figured it out. I don't understand the mechanics of it but I don't see any other reason the CCSA is going to go to great lengths to help ASUN expansion.

This makes the most sense of anything I've read so far. Some CUSA-E and Sun Belt-E teams create a new FBS league through this plan. The left behind CUSA and Sun Belt schools would then merge, effectively killing either CUSA or the Sun Belt.

Thus, still leaving a group of 5. AAC, MWC, MAC, A-Sun, and CUSA or Sun Belt.

(01-23-2020 11:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 09:42 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 09:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 08:34 AM)zibby Wrote:  

(01-22-2020 06:17 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  This is the beginning of the "New East Coast Conference" comprised of schools in the SunBelt and C-USA.

Couldn't they do this on their own? The C-USA East Division could bail then add App State, Georgia Southern and James Madison. Or another Sun Belt team. Or a C-USA West team.

We wouldn't have an autobid for many years. It seems they're going to create a new conference using the ASUN's continuity that will have the autobid. So why the CCSA? Why would this swimming & diving conference go along with the ASUN's plan? Take a look at it's membership. A lot of CUSA-E and Sun Belt-E teams that have in the past voiced displeasure of the spread out geography. I think Blue Trombone is right, this is the beginning of the east coast FBS conference. Sun Belt and CUSA were never going to sit down and work out swaps so the members had to work out some sort of coup. They may have figured it out. I don't understand the mechanics of it but I don't see any other reason the CCSA is going to go to great lengths to help ASUN expansion.

This makes the most sense of anything I've read so far. Some CUSA-E and Sun Belt-E teams create a new FBS league through this plan. The left behind CUSA and Sun Belt schools would then merge, effectively killing either CUSA or the Sun Belt.

Thus, still leaving a group of 5. AAC, MWC, MAC, A-Sun, and CUSA or Sun Belt.

Atlantic Sun isn't much of a name. Maybe they hope to kill off the Sun Belt and get that name back.

(01-23-2020 11:46 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:38 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  App St and Liberty just signed a football series in 2025 & 2024. Sure doesn’t sound like they’re going to be conference mates. Some of you are blowing this out of proportion


https://fbschedules.com/appalachian-state-liberty-schedule-football-series-for-2024-2025/

That's easy enough to undo.

We know the ASUN is contemplating creating a new conference. We don't know why. It's a strange development and is going to spur a lot of speculation until more is known.

That's the only hard fact in this situation so far...

(01-23-2020 11:51 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  What makes you guys think this is an FBS conference? The ASUN is mostly a non-football conference, but they've got an agreement with the Big South to let their schools play FCS football there, and they've got one member doing their own thing in FBS. Most ASUN adds have been from Division II, without much regard to football or non-football status. If their footprint is everything from the Mississippi to the Hudson, which 10 schools from the right-ish side of this map are going to be looking for more exposure?: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Cbdii.PNG

(01-23-2020 11:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:09 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:06 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm not sure how well "the Big East is better at basketball than you" would hold up in court when the NCAA set this precedent.

Whether or not teams are good in basketball is absolutely relevant, because the ONLY issue here is basketball tournament money. Without the autobid rules, there’s no restriction at all on the number of autobids.

Also, if the strategy is to get judges to blow up the NCAA’s basketball tournament rules, then blow up all the rules. Get rid of the NCAA rule that requires any Division I team invited to March Madness to either play in the NCAA’s own tournament or no tournament at all. Then Duke, Kentucky, and the other big names can opt out of the NCAA tournament and move to a new tournament where they select the participating teams and those teams split up all the profit, and CBS and Turner can stop paying for the NCAA tournament.

Well according to the ASUN press release this is exactly what they're planning and they reference the C7 directly. Maybe the plan is for CUSA or SB to dissolve in the process. The remaining, mostly western schools probably wouldn't want to leave one or two schools to rebuild another FBS conference and they wouldn't want to pay exit fees or leave their the conferences cash they just collected from the eastern schools leaving. So accept invites to the Sun Belt and vote to dissolve CUSA.

It does sound like what they are planning, but I wouldn't expect the NCAA to green-light it unless the end result is that the number of autobids stays the same.

Even if the idea is to dissolve CUSA or the Sun Belt and effectively take their autobid -- IIRC, both of those conferences turned Liberty down when Liberty wanted in, even when Liberty offered to write an enormous check to get in. So if the theory is that schools who voted against Liberty are now going to pay their current conference an exit fee in order to join Liberty in a different conference, that might not be a solid theory. Maybe they have a list of Sun Belt and CUSA schools who didn't oppose Liberty and those are the schools they are targeting.

(01-23-2020 11:51 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  What makes you guys think this is an FBS conference? The ASUN is mostly a non-football conference, but they've got an agreement with the Big South to let their schools play FCS football there, and they've got one member doing their own thing in FBS. Most ASUN adds have been from Division II, without much regard to football or non-football status. If their footprint is everything from the Mississippi to the Hudson, which 10 schools from the right-ish side of this map are going to be looking for more exposure?: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Cbdii.PNG

(01-23-2020 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:09 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:06 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm not sure how well "the Big East is better at basketball than you" would hold up in court when the NCAA set this precedent.

Whether or not teams are good in basketball is absolutely relevant, because the ONLY issue here is basketball tournament money. Without the autobid rules, there’s no restriction at all on the number of autobids.

Also, if the strategy is to get judges to blow up the NCAA’s basketball tournament rules, then blow up all the rules. Get rid of the NCAA rule that requires any Division I team invited to March Madness to either play in the NCAA’s own tournament or no tournament at all. Then Duke, Kentucky, and the other big names can opt out of the NCAA tournament and move to a new tournament where they select the participating teams and those teams split up all the profit, and CBS and Turner can stop paying for the NCAA tournament.

Well according to the ASUN press release this is exactly what they're planning and they reference the C7 directly. Maybe the plan is for CUSA or SB to dissolve in the process. The remaining, mostly western schools probably wouldn't want to leave one or two schools to rebuild another FBS conference and they wouldn't want to pay exit fees or leave their the conferences cash they just collected from the eastern schools leaving. So accept invites to the Sun Belt and vote to dissolve CUSA.

It does sound like what they are planning, but I wouldn't expect the NCAA to green-light it unless the end result is that the number of autobids stays the same.

Even if the idea is to dissolve CUSA or the Sun Belt and effectively take their autobid -- IIRC, both of those conferences turned Liberty down when Liberty wanted in, even when Liberty offered to write an enormous check to get in. So if the theory is that schools who voted against Liberty are now going to pay their current conference an exit fee in order to join Liberty in a different conference, that might not be a solid theory. Maybe they have a list of Sun Belt and CUSA schools who didn't oppose Liberty and those are the schools they are targeting.

Yes, it would seem to be easier to agree to a swap of teams than to do this. With a swap, nobody pays exit fees. And if they are going to take almost all of them all from one conference (creating a mass that can dissolve the conference and eliminate exit fees), then all you do is basically kick out the western wing of CUSA or Sun Belt.

(01-23-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:38 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  App St and Liberty just signed a football series in 2025 & 2024. Sure doesn’t sound like they’re going to be conference mates. Some of you are blowing this out of proportion


https://fbschedules.com/appalachian-state-liberty-schedule-football-series-for-2024-2025/

That's easy enough to undo.

We know the ASUN is contemplating creating a new conference. We don't know why. It's a strange development and is going to spur a lot of speculation until more is known.

(01-23-2020 12:25 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:43 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:38 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  App St and Liberty just signed a football series in 2025 & 2024. Sure doesn’t sound like they’re going to be conference mates. Some of you are blowing this out of proportion


https://fbschedules.com/appalachian-state-liberty-schedule-football-series-for-2024-2025/

That's easy enough to undo.

We know the ASUN is contemplating creating a new conference. We don't know why. It's a strange development and is going to spur a lot of speculation until more is known.

So you’re going with the NoDak method and believe schools that are planning to be in a conference together are signing contracts to throw people off the scent of the new conference?

(01-23-2020 12:16 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:09 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Whether or not teams are good in basketball is absolutely relevant, because the ONLY issue here is basketball tournament money. Without the autobid rules, there’s no restriction at all on the number of autobids.

Also, if the strategy is to get judges to blow up the NCAA’s basketball tournament rules, then blow up all the rules. Get rid of the NCAA rule that requires any Division I team invited to March Madness to either play in the NCAA’s own tournament or no tournament at all. Then Duke, Kentucky, and the other big names can opt out of the NCAA tournament and move to a new tournament where they select the participating teams and those teams split up all the profit, and CBS and Turner can stop paying for the NCAA tournament.

Well according to the ASUN press release this is exactly what they're planning and they reference the C7 directly. Maybe the plan is for CUSA or SB to dissolve in the process. The remaining, mostly western schools probably wouldn't want to leave one or two schools to rebuild another FBS conference and they wouldn't want to pay exit fees or leave their the conferences cash they just collected from the eastern schools leaving. So accept invites to the Sun Belt and vote to dissolve CUSA.

It does sound like what they are planning, but I wouldn't expect the NCAA to green-light it unless the end result is that the number of autobids stays the same.

Even if the idea is to dissolve CUSA or the Sun Belt and effectively take their autobid -- IIRC, both of those conferences turned Liberty down when Liberty wanted in, even when Liberty offered to write an enormous check to get in. So if the theory is that schools who voted against Liberty are now going to pay their current conference an exit fee in order to join Liberty in a different conference, that might not be a solid theory. Maybe they have a list of Sun Belt and CUSA schools who didn't oppose Liberty and those are the schools they are targeting.

Yes, it would seem to be easier to agree to a swap of teams than to do this. With a swap, nobody pays exit fees. And if they are going to take almost all of them all from one conference (creating a mass that can dissolve the conference and eliminate exit fees), then all you do is basically kick out the western wing of CUSA or Sun Belt.

Don’t have the votes. My guess is that the western schools aren’t as keen on the idea. It was apparently discussed at the CUSA conference meetings last year though. There is definitely official interest in the idea.

(01-23-2020 11:09 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:06 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm not sure how well "the Big East is better at basketball than you" would hold up in court when the NCAA set this precedent.

Whether or not teams are good in basketball is absolutely relevant, because the ONLY issue here is basketball tournament money. Without the autobid rules, there’s no restriction at all on the number of autobids.

Also, if the strategy is to get judges to blow up the NCAA’s basketball tournament rules, then blow up all the rules. Get rid of the NCAA rule that requires any Division I team invited to March Madness to either play in the NCAA’s own tournament or no tournament at all. Then Duke, Kentucky, and the other big names can opt out of the NCAA tournament and move to a new tournament where they select the participating teams and those teams split up all the profit, and CBS and Turner can stop paying for the NCAA tournament.

Well according to the ASUN press release this is exactly what they're planning and they reference the C7 directly. Maybe the plan is for CUSA or SB to dissolve in the process. The remaining, mostly western schools probably wouldn't want to leave one or two schools to rebuild another FBS conference and they wouldn't want to pay exit fees or leave their the conferences cash they just collected from the eastern schools leaving. So accept invites to the Sun Belt and vote to dissolve CUSA.

(01-23-2020 12:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 12:16 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:09 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Well according to the ASUN press release this is exactly what they're planning and they reference the C7 directly. Maybe the plan is for CUSA or SB to dissolve in the process. The remaining, mostly western schools probably wouldn't want to leave one or two schools to rebuild another FBS conference and they wouldn't want to pay exit fees or leave their the conferences cash they just collected from the eastern schools leaving. So accept invites to the Sun Belt and vote to dissolve CUSA.

It does sound like what they are planning, but I wouldn't expect the NCAA to green-light it unless the end result is that the number of autobids stays the same.

Even if the idea is to dissolve CUSA or the Sun Belt and effectively take their autobid -- IIRC, both of those conferences turned Liberty down when Liberty wanted in, even when Liberty offered to write an enormous check to get in. So if the theory is that schools who voted against Liberty are now going to pay their current conference an exit fee in order to join Liberty in a different conference, that might not be a solid theory. Maybe they have a list of Sun Belt and CUSA schools who didn't oppose Liberty and those are the schools they are targeting.

Yes, it would seem to be easier to agree to a swap of teams than to do this. With a swap, nobody pays exit fees. And if they are going to take almost all of them all from one conference (creating a mass that can dissolve the conference and eliminate exit fees), then all you do is basically kick out the western wing of CUSA or Sun Belt.

Don’t have the votes. My guess is that the western schools aren’t as keen on the idea. It was apparently discussed at the CUSA conference meetings last year though. There is definitely official interest in the idea.

Maybe the votes are not there today, but a swap is still far easier than a mass exodus, if an east-west reorganization is the goal.

If the A-Sun/Liberty idea is to force CUSA or the Sun Belt to collapse and lose its conference status, that only works if there are not enough FBS programs left between the two of them to have two FBS conferences.

If there are still a total of 16 FBS teams left among the two combined, they have enough to keep both conferences going. CUSA has 14 and the Sun Belt has 10. Either could add NMSU as a full member if needed to meet the minimum. That means, if the idea is to collapse one of the two or force the two to merge, you'd have to convince at least 10 FBS programs to leave CUSA and/or the Sun Belt, in order to force the two conferences to merge and free up one of their basketball autobids. That's too difficult to pull off.

(01-23-2020 12:57 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 12:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 12:16 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:24 AM)Wedge Wrote:  It does sound like what they are planning, but I wouldn't expect the NCAA to green-light it unless the end result is that the number of autobids stays the same.

Even if the idea is to dissolve CUSA or the Sun Belt and effectively take their autobid -- IIRC, both of those conferences turned Liberty down when Liberty wanted in, even when Liberty offered to write an enormous check to get in. So if the theory is that schools who voted against Liberty are now going to pay their current conference an exit fee in order to join Liberty in a different conference, that might not be a solid theory. Maybe they have a list of Sun Belt and CUSA schools who didn't oppose Liberty and those are the schools they are targeting.

Yes, it would seem to be easier to agree to a swap of teams than to do this. With a swap, nobody pays exit fees. And if they are going to take almost all of them all from one conference (creating a mass that can dissolve the conference and eliminate exit fees), then all you do is basically kick out the western wing of CUSA or Sun Belt.

Don’t have the votes. My guess is that the western schools aren’t as keen on the idea. It was apparently discussed at the CUSA conference meetings last year though. There is definitely official interest in the idea.

Maybe the votes are not there today, but a swap is still far easier than a mass exodus, if an east-west reorganization is the goal.

If the A-Sun/Liberty idea is to force CUSA or the Sun Belt to collapse and lose its conference status, that only works if there are not enough FBS programs left between the two of them to have two FBS conferences.

If there are still a total of 16 FBS teams left among the two combined, they have enough to keep both conferences going. CUSA has 14 and the Sun Belt has 10. Either could add NMSU as a full member if needed to meet the minimum. That means, if the idea is to collapse one of the two or force the two to merge, you'd have to convince at least 10 FBS programs to leave CUSA and/or the Sun Belt, in order to force the two conferences to merge and free up one of their basketball autobids. That's too difficult to pull off.

It'd be easier than negotiating an east/west swap. I'm pretty sure 75% approval is needed to approve membership changes in both conferences. So 8 SB and 10 CUSA teams? (not sure of UAT and UALR voting rights but that would require even more) 18 schools at minimum is NOT going to happen when east/west reorginization is not the goal of a lot of those teams. We just need 3 SB team to jump ship to force them to add and 7 from CUSA. They could add NMSU and some FCS teams to keep them alive but would they?

(01-23-2020 11:54 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 11:51 AM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  What makes you guys think this is an FBS conference? The ASUN is mostly a non-football conference, but they've got an agreement with the Big South to let their schools play FCS football there, and they've got one member doing their own thing in FBS. Most ASUN adds have been from Division II, without much regard to football or non-football status. If their footprint is everything from the Mississippi to the Hudson, which 10 schools from the right-ish side of this map are going to be looking for more exposure?: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7d/Cbdii.PNG

They're creating a new conference. If they want to expand and call up DII schools they don't need to go to so much trouble.

(01-23-2020 01:26 PM)Inkblot Wrote:  The glossary of terms linked near the top of the release (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mIGMoAZk1zfhNMDhMfPwzEeFRzN_ZfYW0hx75Hg7WXw/edit) sheds some light on a few points about the UAC:

1. It will NOT be an FBS conference.

2. It WILL be an FCS conference.

3. It will NOT be a football-only conference.