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D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - Attackcoog - 12-16-2019 12:47 PM
I thought this article was interesting. lol...sounds kinda like "Please Please Please---protect us from ourselves!!
Salary market inefficiency is especially apparent when athletics directors and presidents find themselves renegotiating contracts to retain successful coaches. The non-profit structure creates an odd principal-agent dilemma: It is almost always in the personal job-security interest of athletics directors to pay highly popular coaches whatever it takes to retain them, lest they be blamed by influential constituents for allowing a beloved coach to get away. Agents representing coaches understand this negotiating dynamic, and are thus able to extract exceptional value for their clients. Negotiating circumstances are different in professional sports, where management is closely supported by an owner with a personal incentive to optimize financial efficiency and maximize return on investment.
Off the record, ADs will admit it’s ridiculous that the fourth best coordinator in a conference can earn $1.7 million for a head coach that earns $6 million a year, but, well, you try being the first to draw the line in the sand.
https://footballscoop.com/news/d1-ad-argues-for-congress-to-put-a-salary-cap-on-salaries-in-college-athletics/
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - oliveandblue - 12-16-2019 12:52 PM
A cap on coaching salary would seriously hurt the bottom of the P5 and help the wealthy G5 schools willing to pay maximum salary.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - Captain Bearcat - 12-16-2019 12:54 PM
A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - Frank the Tank - 12-16-2019 01:04 PM
(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
Correct. Unless the coaches choose to form a union and then collectively bargain salaries, then trying to impose a salary cap on them is per se illegal.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - Wedge - 12-16-2019 01:10 PM
This argument from the article is not correct:
Quote:Non-profit organizations in other sectors – for example, religious organizations, hospitals, and food banks – do not encounter a similar competitive dynamic.
Would have taken this AD 15 seconds of googling to find out that the CEOs of many "non-profit" hospitals receive salaries that are right up there with Nick Saban. (The term non-profit is just as bogus in healthcare as it is in college athletics.)
One example:
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/providers/hospital-ceos-get-big-raises-despite-pressure-control-healthcare-costs
Quote:Top executives at six of the nine largest Chicago-area not-for-profit health systems pocketed substantial raises in 2017, recently released data shows. Their average pay hike was 37%, easily outpacing national trends.
Jim Skogsbergh of Advocate Aurora Health was the highest-paid local CEO for the fifth year in a row, taking home $11.7 million in 2017—up 42% from the year prior. He got more than twice as much as Dean Harrison of Northwestern Memorial HealthCare, the second-highest-paid CEO, who collected $5.2 million—up 22% from 2016.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - Mav - 12-16-2019 03:27 PM
(12-16-2019 12:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote: I thought this article was interesting. lol...sounds kinda like "Please Please Please---protect us from ourselves!!It does until you realize that turning down ridiculous salary demands on principle would lead you to getting shipcanned as your rivals are willing to pay those exorbitant amounts for the best talent around. I'm not sure if having your football team go 1-11 so you can "be the change you want to see" is a sound strategy if you want to stay an AD.
Something has to give here.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - Attackcoog - 12-16-2019 03:45 PM
(12-16-2019 01:04 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
Correct. Unless the coaches choose to form a union and then collectively bargain salaries, then trying to impose a salary cap on them is per se illegal.
While true---its also true that we put caps on the players and they dont have a union either. Thus, as the gap between player compensation and coaching compensation continues to grow artificially---you may see some kind of unique solution---especially if the Romney working group in the Senate moves toward player compensation of some sort. Perhaps, you'll see coaching salaries capped at some multiple of player compensation. That wouldnt technically be a true hard cap---but it would stop the gap between player and coach compensation from growing while also acting as a real world economic governor on the spiraling rise of coach compensation.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - JRsec - 12-16-2019 04:43 PM
(12-16-2019 12:47 PM)Attackcoog Wrote: I thought this article was interesting. lol...sounds kinda like "Please Please Please---protect us from ourselves!!
Salary market inefficiency is especially apparent when athletics directors and presidents find themselves renegotiating contracts to retain successful coaches. The non-profit structure creates an odd principal-agent dilemma: It is almost always in the personal job-security interest of athletics directors to pay highly popular coaches whatever it takes to retain them, lest they be blamed by influential constituents for allowing a beloved coach to get away. Agents representing coaches understand this negotiating dynamic, and are thus able to extract exceptional value for their clients. Negotiating circumstances are different in professional sports, where management is closely supported by an owner with a personal incentive to optimize financial efficiency and maximize return on investment.
Off the record, ADs will admit it’s ridiculous that the fourth best coordinator in a conference can earn $1.7 million for a head coach that earns $6 million a year, but, well, you try being the first to draw the line in the sand.
https://footballscoop.com/news/d1-ad-argues-for-congress-to-put-a-salary-cap-on-salaries-in-college-athletics/
Okay, so the likely progressive socialist AD at UC Davis wants to spout off about coaches salaries? Next.
I'll listen when the AD of one of the P5 wants to bellyache about some aspect of college sports because their butts will be on the line. But Mr. Blue can take a hike. When UC Davis actually competes for something wake me up!
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - JRsec - 12-16-2019 04:52 PM
(12-16-2019 01:10 PM)Wedge Wrote: This argument from the article is not correct:
Quote:Non-profit organizations in other sectors – for example, religious organizations, hospitals, and food banks – do not encounter a similar competitive dynamic.
Would have taken this AD 15 seconds of googling to find out that the CEOs of many "non-profit" hospitals receive salaries that are right up there with Nick Saban. (The term non-profit is just as bogus in healthcare as it is in college athletics.)
One example:
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/providers/hospital-ceos-get-big-raises-despite-pressure-control-healthcare-costs
Quote:Top executives at six of the nine largest Chicago-area not-for-profit health systems pocketed substantial raises in 2017, recently released data shows. Their average pay hike was 37%, easily outpacing national trends.
Jim Skogsbergh of Advocate Aurora Health was the highest-paid local CEO for the fifth year in a row, taking home $11.7 million in 2017—up 42% from the year prior. He got more than twice as much as Dean Harrison of Northwestern Memorial HealthCare, the second-highest-paid CEO, who collected $5.2 million—up 22% from 2016.
So true. The United Way actually spends a nickel of every dollar helping the poor, the rest covers the bureaucracy (salaries, buildings, advertising, etc.). But before someone rags on the United Way the average protestant denomination spends around 3 cents of every dollar and the Catholic Church averages a nickel like the United Way. Now you have to dig to find the truth because all of these will show a 1/4 or more of their budget going to mission. It's within that mission budget that you find the buildings, salaries of professional clergy, their health insurance, travel allowances, etc, etc, that goes to support the personnel and structure of the denomination while ~ 3 cents goes to help the impoverished.
When we fix these ills first I'll start listening a little bit more to arguments about coaches salaries. At least the coaches aren't claiming to help the poor. They are just promising to win. And when they don't, well that's when we find their salaries to have been too generous.
BTW: If you want to help the poor there are organizations that deliver well over 50 cents of every dollar and some that deliver as much as 95 cents of every dollar to actually help them. But most importantly the best thing you can do is find someone in need who just needs a boost up to handle things for themselves and give directly to them. Most people transitioning from the working class to poverty get there because of one crisis that they didn't have enough to handle. Those folks are a great investment for one's charity if the return you are looking for is truly helping someone back out of poverty. And it is nearly Christmas, and Hanukkah is just about to get started up. It's a great time to help.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - gulfcoastgal - 12-16-2019 05:47 PM
(12-16-2019 04:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:(12-16-2019 01:10 PM)Wedge Wrote: This argument from the article is not correct:
Quote:Non-profit organizations in other sectors – for example, religious organizations, hospitals, and food banks – do not encounter a similar competitive dynamic.
Would have taken this AD 15 seconds of googling to find out that the CEOs of many "non-profit" hospitals receive salaries that are right up there with Nick Saban. (The term non-profit is just as bogus in healthcare as it is in college athletics.)
One example:
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/providers/hospital-ceos-get-big-raises-despite-pressure-control-healthcare-costs
Quote:Top executives at six of the nine largest Chicago-area not-for-profit health systems pocketed substantial raises in 2017, recently released data shows. Their average pay hike was 37%, easily outpacing national trends.
Jim Skogsbergh of Advocate Aurora Health was the highest-paid local CEO for the fifth year in a row, taking home $11.7 million in 2017—up 42% from the year prior. He got more than twice as much as Dean Harrison of Northwestern Memorial HealthCare, the second-highest-paid CEO, who collected $5.2 million—up 22% from 2016.
So true. The United Way actually spends a nickel of every dollar helping the poor, the rest covers the bureaucracy (salaries, buildings, advertising, etc.). But before someone rags on the United Way the average protestant denomination spends around 3 cents of every dollar and the Catholic Church averages a nickel like the United Way. Now you have to dig to find the truth because all of these will show a 1/4 or more of their budget going to mission. It's within that mission budget that you find the buildings, salaries of professional clergy, their health insurance, travel allowances, etc, etc, that goes to support the personnel and structure of the denomination while ~ 3 cents goes to help the impoverished.
When we fix these ills first I'll start listening a little bit more to arguments about coaches salaries. At least the coaches aren't claiming to help the poor. They are just promising to win. And when they don't, well that's when we find their salaries to have been too generous.
BTW: If you want to help the poor there are organizations that deliver well over 50 cents of every dollar and some that deliver as much as 95 cents of every dollar to actually help them. But most importantly the best thing you can do is find someone in need who just needs a boost up to handle things for themselves and give directly to them. Most people transitioning from the working class to poverty get there because of one crisis that they didn't have enough to handle. Those folks are a great investment for one's charity if the return you are looking for is truly helping someone back out of poverty. And it is nearly Christmas, and Hanukkah is just about to get started up. It's a great time to help.
Hear Hear! And, if funds are tight, spend some time volunteering for these organizations or helping families/individuals in need. If you don't know where to start or want to support local drives, check with area municipalities, churches and schools, they have long lists of those in need.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - dbackjon - 12-16-2019 06:00 PM
(12-16-2019 04:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:(12-16-2019 01:10 PM)Wedge Wrote: This argument from the article is not correct:
Quote:Non-profit organizations in other sectors – for example, religious organizations, hospitals, and food banks – do not encounter a similar competitive dynamic.
Would have taken this AD 15 seconds of googling to find out that the CEOs of many "non-profit" hospitals receive salaries that are right up there with Nick Saban. (The term non-profit is just as bogus in healthcare as it is in college athletics.)
One example:
https://www.modernhealthcare.com/providers/hospital-ceos-get-big-raises-despite-pressure-control-healthcare-costs
Quote:Top executives at six of the nine largest Chicago-area not-for-profit health systems pocketed substantial raises in 2017, recently released data shows. Their average pay hike was 37%, easily outpacing national trends.
Jim Skogsbergh of Advocate Aurora Health was the highest-paid local CEO for the fifth year in a row, taking home $11.7 million in 2017—up 42% from the year prior. He got more than twice as much as Dean Harrison of Northwestern Memorial HealthCare, the second-highest-paid CEO, who collected $5.2 million—up 22% from 2016.
So true. The United Way actually spends a nickel of every dollar helping the poor, the rest covers the bureaucracy (salaries, buildings, advertising, etc.). But before someone rags on the United Way the average protestant denomination spends around 3 cents of every dollar and the Catholic Church averages a nickel like the United Way. Now you have to dig to find the truth because all of these will show a 1/4 or more of their budget going to mission. It's within that mission budget that you find the buildings, salaries of professional clergy, their health insurance, travel allowances, etc, etc, that goes to support the personnel and structure of the denomination while ~ 3 cents goes to help the impoverished.
When we fix these ills first I'll start listening a little bit more to arguments about coaches salaries. At least the coaches aren't claiming to help the poor. They are just promising to win. And when they don't, well that's when we find their salaries to have been too generous.
BTW: If you want to help the poor there are organizations that deliver well over 50 cents of every dollar and some that deliver as much as 95 cents of every dollar to actually help them. But most importantly the best thing you can do is find someone in need who just needs a boost up to handle things for themselves and give directly to them. Most people transitioning from the working class to poverty get there because of one crisis that they didn't have enough to handle. Those folks are a great investment for one's charity if the return you are looking for is truly helping someone back out of poverty. And it is nearly Christmas, and Hanukkah is just about to get started up. It's a great time to help.
the United Way is a little misleading since they have a national and local. 79% of local goes to charities. The National is an umbrella arm that sends the money downstream.
As for churches, another reason as to why they shouldn't be tax-deductible or considered a charity - they really aren't. When you have these surveys of % to charities, payments to churches need to be filtered out to get REAL charitable giving.
Your other advice is 100% sound. Give to organizations with as little overhead (and local) as possible. Local Food Bank, shelters etc. Even taking the time to find the local agency that GIVES people good quality used clothing (instead of just dumping at Goodwill, where it is resold).
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - bullet - 12-16-2019 06:31 PM
(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
Would be a California AD and a "Dr."
They already lost a lawsuit on caps on salaries for lower level coaches. Guy should be fired for not understanding that. Congress can't just circumvent the Constitution.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - bullet - 12-16-2019 06:33 PM
(12-16-2019 03:45 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:(12-16-2019 01:04 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
Correct. Unless the coaches choose to form a union and then collectively bargain salaries, then trying to impose a salary cap on them is per se illegal.
While true---its also true that we put caps on the players and they dont have a union either. Thus, as the gap between player compensation and coaching compensation continues to grow artificially---you may see some kind of unique solution---especially if the Romney working group in the Senate moves toward player compensation of some sort. Perhaps, you'll see coaching salaries capped at some multiple of player compensation. That wouldnt technically be a true hard cap---but it would stop the gap between player and coach compensation from growing while also acting as a real world economic governor on the spiraling rise of coach compensation.
Still unconstitutional. They could maybe tax the difference, but they can't outlaw it.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - EigenEagle - 12-16-2019 07:52 PM
(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
It would definitely be illegal for government to do it. For the NCAA to do it is another thing.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - chess - 12-16-2019 08:42 PM
How silly. Hospitals are non-profits. The NCAA is a non-profit. Non-profit does not mean "no-revenue".
If you put a cap on coaches' salaries the benefits will escalate.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - bullet - 12-16-2019 08:48 PM
(12-16-2019 07:52 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.
What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.
It would definitely be illegal for government to do it. For the NCAA to do it is another thing.
The NCAA already did. They lost in court. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-05-05-9805050078-story.html
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - arkstfan - 12-16-2019 10:57 PM
There is a simple fix.
Quit being a dumb*** when you hire.
Most coaches hired to multi-million dollar deals in the Power 5 would accept significantly less if that were the offer.
Arkansas hired Chad Morris at $3.5 million, Pittman came in for less. AState hired Harsin and Anderson for less than what they paid Malzahn.
Most schools think if you fire a $3 million coach you need a $4 million coach this time even though the hiring pool is going to look very similar.
Mizzou paid $4 million to hire Eli Drinkwitz. I like Eli, he's great guy loved visiting with him at AState but he went 12-1 with a squad that went 11-2 under Scott Satterfield and still has the bulk of production coming back next year. Without ever having recruited a full class as head Drink gets a $3.2 million raise.
You can easily out-pay any G5 and most any G5 can easily out-pay an FCS but don't freaking spend millions because you can or because your fans are wondering why you paid $3 million when your rival is paying $6 million. There are tons of good coaches out there who will gladly take a nice raise and bonus laden contract that rewards success.
Most contract bonus provisions are so small in proportion to the salary that they appear to be after thoughts thrown in for the sake of the fans. Hey look he gets $100k for making the playoff, that's some nice juice, yeah to you and me, guy making $120,000 every two weeks? He's less likely to notice.
Anyone who thinks Gus Malzahn would have said no thanks when Auburn called him at AState if they had offered to double his salary instead of offering to triple it is badly mistaken.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - CougarRed - 12-17-2019 02:54 AM
It's not illegal to refrain from guaranteeing contracts regardless of performance. The "If we fire you, we still have to pay you" nonsense.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - ken d - 12-17-2019 10:39 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing a limit placed on the number of years' salaries that can be guaranteed. And I'd start that clock with the initial contract, with no guarantees on extensions. Buyouts have gotten ridiculous. But if you are asking a coach to leave a current job where he has been successful, you need to compensate him for that risk.
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries - MWC Tex - 12-17-2019 11:04 AM
Well...does it make a difference that coaches in the vast majority of cases are state employees?
Also, there should be a cap on professer salaries also. That is the biggest costs of tuition increases even if some are endowed.