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+---- Thread: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread (/thread-884622.html)
Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - MonarchManiac - 10-09-2019 01:06 PM
I am normally pretty well-read on these situations but this one I really don't understand all sides of.
Would like for our posters to give me a quick education on the situation in Syria as it relates to US troops, the Kurds, and Turkey.
Why were we there? What was the end game? How do the players fit in? Why should we care? Pros and cons of Trump's actions this week? Now what?
NOT looking for partisan bickering. OK with opinions but don't want this thread to turn into a whatabout thread or your typical liberal/conservative fight.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - stinkfist - 10-09-2019 01:09 PM
![[Image: im-91723?width=620&size=1.5]](https://images.barrons.com/im-91723?width=620&size=1.5)
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - MonarchManiac - 10-10-2019 08:51 AM
nuthin?
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - bullet - 10-10-2019 09:00 AM
We're there to help the Kurds kill ISIS. The Kurds have not been fighting Assad in the Syrian Civil War. They have fought ISIS and sometimes other rebel groups.
ISIS focused more on the other rebel groups. So did Assad. The other rebel groups and ISIS have been pretty much knocked out of the war. Now its Turkish backed rebels fighting Kurds and to a lesser extent Assad.
Assad has done a good job keeping his enemies fighting each other instead of him. With everyone fighting the rebels, the Kurds have quietly created an autonomous region in NE Syria with just a couple of Assad pockets in their territory which is mostly bounded on the South and West by the Euphrates River. They had a region in the northwest around Afrin, but the Turks and their rebels overran it a few months ago, displacing about 300,000 people.
The Kurds are generally communists closely allied with the PKK who are the terrorist/separatist group in Turkey. The Syrian Kurds don't have a great relationship with the Iraqi Kurds.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - Jugnaut - 10-10-2019 09:23 AM
We really went to Syria for regime change. Our Arab gulf allies are aligned against the Iran/Syria axis. Our gulf allies funded various jihadi rebel groups including ISIS to some extent. The other jihadi groups and others formed the Free Syrian Army which sounds a lot better to the public than jihadis. We have no business in this civil war.
Russia, Iran, and Syria are all allies. Russia and Iran refused to let regime change happen. As a result, they intervened. During the conflict ISIS became more powerful so we decided to switch our objective to defeating ISIS. The Kurds helped with this and were reliable allies.
Turkey hates the Kurds and plays both sides. The Kurds want their own state but Turkey will not allow that. Turkey seems to be mainly interested in increasing their power. I suspect they want to steal some territory from Syria.
Now that ISIS is defeated, we have no legitimate reason to be in Syria. Our presence has prolonged the civil war. Russia and Iran could quicky end it if we and our gulf allies weren't supporting the FSA. I don't know why we think regime change works. The Arab spring turned out bad. It seems more beneficial to have dictators in charge instead of Islamists. I do feel bad for the Kurds as they are one of the few good actors in the region. We would have to stay forever to prevent Turkey from attacking them. So that is not a viable option. I just want us to leave completely and wash our hands of the region. We don't need the ME given the shale revolution.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - bullet - 10-10-2019 10:08 AM
(10-10-2019 09:23 AM)Jugnaut Wrote: We really went to Syria for regime change. Our Arab gulf allies are aligned against the Iran/Syria axis. Our gulf allies funded various jihadi rebel groups including ISIS to some extent. The other jihadi groups and others formed the Free Syrian Army which sounds a lot better to the public than jihadis. We have no business in this civil war.
Russia, Iran, and Syria are all allies. Russia and Iran refused to let regime change happen. As a result, they intervened. During the conflict ISIS became more powerful so we decided to switch our objective to defeating ISIS. The Kurds helped with this and were reliable allies.
Turkey hates the Kurds and plays both sides. The Kurds want their own state but Turkey will not allow that. Turkey seems to be mainly interested in increasing their power. I suspect they want to steal some territory from Syria.
Now that ISIS is defeated, we have no legitimate reason to be in Syria. Our presence has prolonged the civil war. Russia and Iran could quicky end it if we and our gulf allies weren't supporting the FSA. I don't know why we think regime change works. The Arab spring turned out bad. It seems more beneficial to have dictators in charge instead of Islamists. I do feel bad for the Kurds as they are one of the few good actors in the region. We would have to stay forever to prevent Turkey from attacking them. So that is not a viable option. I just want us to leave completely and wash our hands of the region. We don't need the ME given the shale revolution.
There are still rebels controlling parts of the Northwest. They are propped up by Turkey.
The rebels would have defeated Assad without his support by the Russians, Iranians and Hezbellah. But Russian planes, Iranian and Hezbellah soldiers defeated the almost all the rebels and a small part of ISIS. Turkey intervened, otherwise, the Iranians and Hezbellah would have overrun the last pockets of rebels in the northwest. Turkey expanded the rebels territory by driving the Kurds out of Afrin.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49973218
BBC always has some good maps.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - bullet - 10-10-2019 10:10 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49998035
Another BBC article with a map of the whole country.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - Kaplony - 10-10-2019 10:57 AM
There is no end game. Even if there is only one branch of Islam left they'll still fight among themselves because of something or another.
Pull our men and women out, sell them all the arms they can afford to buy outside of WMDs and just let them kill themselves until they are no longer a threat to anybody else.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - stinkfist - 10-10-2019 11:08 AM
(10-10-2019 10:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote: There is no end game. Even if there is only one branch of Islam left they'll still fight among themselves because of something or another.
Pull our men and women out, sell them all the arms they can afford to buy outside of WMDs and just let them kill themselves until they are no longer a threat to anybody else.
every dayum bit of ^^^^^^
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - GrayBeard - 10-10-2019 03:28 PM
(10-10-2019 10:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote: There is no end game. Even if there is only one branch of Islam left they'll still fight among themselves because of something or another.
Pull our men and women out, sell them all the arms they can afford to buy outside of WMDs and just let them kill themselves until they are no longer a threat to anybody else.
Negative on the weapons...as they would turn them on Israel.
RE: Syria, Kurds, Turkey, etc. Information thread - stinkfist - 10-10-2019 05:16 PM
(10-10-2019 03:28 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:(10-10-2019 10:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote: There is no end game. Even if there is only one branch of Islam left they'll still fight among themselves because of something or another.
Pull our men and women out, sell them all the arms they can afford to buy outside of WMDs and just let them kill themselves until they are no longer a threat to anybody else.
Negative on the weapons...as they would turn them on Israel.
why....he was clear relative to "WMDs"....
we got Isreal all day long in any scenario....