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Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - UTSAMarineVet09 - 07-10-2019 11:37 AM
Quote:The future of the Affordable Care Act was thrown into limbo again on Wednesday, when a panel of three federal appeals court judges seemed poised to uphold a lower-court ruling that a pinnacle of the health care law – the requirement that Americans have health insurance – is unconstitutional.
Buh Bye Oblundercare!
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Kaplony - 07-10-2019 11:43 AM
Sorry leftists!
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - SuperFlyBCat - 07-10-2019 11:47 AM
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/8AQFoVvd68TGU/giphy.gif)
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Ohio Poly - 07-10-2019 05:02 PM
Winning the Obamacare Suit Would Be a Disaster for Republicans
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-10/winning-the-obamacare-lawsuit-would-be-a-disaster-for-the-gop
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - UofMstateU - 07-10-2019 05:11 PM
(07-10-2019 05:02 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote: Winning the Obamacare Suit Would Be a Disaster for Republicans
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-10/winning-the-obamacare-lawsuit-would-be-a-disaster-for-the-gop
How is it the republicans fault that the democrats passed a sh*tty unconstitutional bill? Keep in mind, the democrats control the house right now.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Attackcoog - 07-10-2019 07:25 PM
(07-10-2019 05:11 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:(07-10-2019 05:02 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote: Winning the Obamacare Suit Would Be a Disaster for Republicans
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-10/winning-the-obamacare-lawsuit-would-be-a-disaster-for-the-gop
How is it the republicans fault that the democrats passed a sh*tty unconstitutional bill? Keep in mind, the democrats control the house right now.
lol. AOC logic.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - solohawks - 07-10-2019 07:28 PM
An immediate collapse of Obamacare via judical fiat would be very chaotic. It needs to be done legislatively
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Hambone10 - 07-11-2019 12:56 PM
(07-10-2019 05:02 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote: Winning the Obamacare Suit Would Be a Disaster for Republicans
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-07-10/winning-the-obamacare-lawsuit-would-be-a-disaster-for-the-gop
This is a dumb/uninformed opinion
By definition, anyone who currently has insurance doesn't have an 'uncoverable' pre-existing condition. All they need to do is keep their insurance up.
What this means is that people with long term health problems but also some resources can't pay the miniscule fine and sit on their asses waiting for it to be a major problem and then buy insurance a day later and not pay more for their care.
It's called personal responsibility.
It also would allow insurers to do what I have suggested and decline to cover (or at least charge a higher copay) for accidents/illnesses of choice
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Hambone10 - 07-11-2019 12:58 PM
(07-10-2019 07:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: An immediate collapse of Obamacare via judical fiat would be very chaotic. It needs to be done legislatively
This wouldn't happen. Insurance contracts are annual at worst. People could drop their coverage if they chose to, but nobody could cancel them unless they didn't pay their premiums which is already the law.
Eliminating the individual mandate doesn't eliminate the insurance, nor the mechanisms currently in place to subsidize healthcare.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - solohawks - 07-11-2019 01:36 PM
(07-11-2019 12:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:(07-10-2019 07:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: An immediate collapse of Obamacare via judical fiat would be very chaotic. It needs to be done legislatively
This wouldn't happen. Insurance contracts are annual at worst. People could drop their coverage if they chose to, but nobody could cancel them unless they didn't pay their premiums which is already the law.
Eliminating the individual mandate doesn't eliminate the insurance, nor the mechanisms currently in place to subsidize healthcare.
If the subsidies are eliminated in the middle of the year people could be dropped unless they began paying full price, which they wouldn't be able to afford.
It would be very chaotic for people getting subsides via the exchange not to mention people could be kicked off Medicaid overnight. Policy wise Obamacare sucks, but it is here and active. Ripping it away mid year with no plan would have devastating real world effects on many people who are just trying to play by the rules they are given
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - VA49er - 07-11-2019 01:53 PM
(07-11-2019 01:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:(07-11-2019 12:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:(07-10-2019 07:28 PM)solohawks Wrote: An immediate collapse of Obamacare via judical fiat would be very chaotic. It needs to be done legislatively
This wouldn't happen. Insurance contracts are annual at worst. People could drop their coverage if they chose to, but nobody could cancel them unless they didn't pay their premiums which is already the law.
Eliminating the individual mandate doesn't eliminate the insurance, nor the mechanisms currently in place to subsidize healthcare.
If the subsidies are eliminated in the middle of the year people could be dropped unless they began paying full price, which they wouldn't be able to afford.
It would be very chaotic for people getting subsides via the exchange not to mention people could be kicked off Medicaid overnight. Policy wise Obamacare sucks, but it is here and active. Ripping it away mid year with no plan would have devastating real world effects on many people who are just trying to play by the rules they are given
Even if they are already under contract for the year at the before contracted rate?
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - solohawks - 07-11-2019 02:29 PM
If you dont pay your monthly premium you lose your policy. If the government is paying a sustainal portion of your premium but that goes POOF, the insurance company will still want that portion to keep the policy active. If you dont pay because its ridiculously expensive you lose your policy due to lack of premium payment
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - VA49er - 07-11-2019 02:37 PM
(07-11-2019 02:29 PM)solohawks Wrote: If you dont pay your monthly premium you lose your policy. If the government is paying a sustainal portion of your premium but that goes POOF, the insurance company will still want that portion to keep the policy active. If you dont pay because its ridiculously expensive you lose your policy due to lack of premium payment
But that monthly price is contracted for the remaining part of the year. It would be a mess but seems the company would go after the govt for not paying and not the individual and wouldn't cancel the policy. Not saying the company would be successful. Not sure how any of that would work out but it seems canceling the policy all together would be drastic.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Hambone10 - 07-11-2019 03:09 PM
Solo.... You're conflating arguments
The courts deciding that the individual mandate is not legal does not change the law or financing providing subsidies for insurance. You're presuming that it does. That would have to be done legislatively, just as you suggested.
Someone deciding that they don't wish to pay their portion of the now no longer mandated (because it is Unconstitutional) purchase of insurance is not without consequences....
but the solution to such a thing is NOT to violate a citizens Constitutional rights in order to force them to keep something they have specifically decided they don't want.
I'm not saying the SCOTUS is going to agree with this (mandate Unconstitutional)... remains to be seen... but they shouldn't fail to uphold the Constitution just to keep people with the Constitutionally protected freedom to make choices from making 'poor' ones. That's completely antithetical.
The ONLY question at issue is whether or not the government can FORCE you to buy insurance... something they couldn't do for many decades before the ACA
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - solohawks - 07-11-2019 05:19 PM
If all of Obamacare is thrown out as unconstitutional that means the government subsides people have been getting to make their monthly payments, which they may not even be aware they are getting, will go bye bye.
That means that when BCBSNC doesnt get the full $800 in September from Johnny Tarheel and/or the Feds for the Tarheel family's health insurance, the policy will be at risk of cancelation due to lack of payment of premium. It doesnt matter that up until then the Tarheel family's portion was only $100, they will now be liable for an extra $700 or else the policy can be terminated. That means little Suzie Tarheel wont get the surgery she needs to walk like a normal child.
If Obamacare is just ended in the middle of the year with no planning, people will not be able to afford the policies they have had all year. That is red meat to the liberals who have never met a crisis they couldnt exploit for political gain. Not too mention the fact states that expanded Medicaid will now be on the hook for a whole lot of money and will either have to cut funding to Jimmy Buckeyes school or throw Johnny Hawkeye off the expanded Medicaid role. More liberal red meat.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Hambone10 - 07-11-2019 10:24 PM
(07-11-2019 05:19 PM)solohawks Wrote: If all of Obamacare is thrown out as unconstitutional that means the government subsides people have been getting to make their monthly payments, which they may not even be aware they are getting, will go bye bye.
There is nothing unconstitutional about the government providing financial support to those whom they deem need it. Medicaid and Medicare, not to mention EMTALA would have to be declared Unconstitutional, which isn't at issue and obviously isn't going to happen as it's been the law for decades.
The ACA robs from the healthy by forcing them to buy insurance that they don't need/use. It imposed a tax to force compliance.
Certainly Republicans COULD decide to end subsidies, but that would be a legislative, not a judicial decision... just as you required.
You don't hear anyone worried that this decision could mean a return to paper charts etc etc, because subsidies for EMR were part of the ACA as well.
NOBODY is really concerned about this, except people making ridiculous stretches of logic for political purposes. I mean, theoretically, this decision could cause monkeys to fly out of my ass... but it's pretty unlikely. The supreme court has NEVER overturned 20,000 pages of legislation because one small part is illegal.... and the mandate isn't a requirement of the subsidy. It's not like one can't exist but for the other
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - solohawks - 07-11-2019 10:52 PM
The whole point of this case is trying to use Chief Justice Solomon's logic against him. He ruled in the beginning that the mandate was the crux of the law and if it was ruled unconstitutional then the house of sand that is Obamacare collapses. He then ruled it constitutional as a tax thus the whole law was constitutional.
If they deem the tax being set to $0 equals the mandate being unconstitutional then based on precedent the entire law can be deemed unconstitutional including the sudisides. If the subsidies and expanded Medicaid funds to the states are the baby that gets thrown out with the bath water than Congress would need to reauthorize those funds and Trump sign off in order to keep the money flowing.
If the money stops flowing there would be a lot of trouble
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Owl 69/70/75 - 07-12-2019 01:13 AM
Republicans: Hire somebody to translate the French (or Dutch or Swiss) Bismarck law into English, pass it in the senate, and have it ready to go in the house if Obamacare gets thrown out. Otherwise you have the perfect storm that democrats can use to cram single-payer or single-provider down our throats. Create a crisis, then don't let it go to waste, the democrat way. I have always maintained that Obamacare was designed to fail and create a crisis in which single-payer or single-provider could be crammed down our throats. I just didn't expect it to come quite like this.
Republicans have no brains and no balls. And they are all that stands between us and the socialist/communist/collectivist democrats. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, but I wish my enemies had better enemies.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Attackcoog - 07-12-2019 01:43 AM
(07-11-2019 10:24 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:(07-11-2019 05:19 PM)solohawks Wrote: If all of Obamacare is thrown out as unconstitutional that means the government subsides people have been getting to make their monthly payments, which they may not even be aware they are getting, will go bye bye.
There is nothing unconstitutional about the government providing financial support to those whom they deem need it. Medicaid and Medicare, not to mention EMTALA would have to be declared Unconstitutional, which isn't at issue and obviously isn't going to happen as it's been the law for decades.
The ACA robs from the healthy by forcing them to buy insurance that they don't need/use. It imposed a tax to force compliance.
Certainly Republicans COULD decide to end subsidies, but that would be a legislative, not a judicial decision... just as you required.
You don't hear anyone worried that this decision could mean a return to paper charts etc etc, because subsidies for EMR were part of the ACA as well.
NOBODY is really concerned about this, except people making ridiculous stretches of logic for political purposes. I mean, theoretically, this decision could cause monkeys to fly out of my ass... but it's pretty unlikely. The supreme court has NEVER overturned 20,000 pages of legislation because one small part is illegal.... and the mandate isn't a requirement of the subsidy. It's not like one can't exist but for the other
The way I understand it, the entire law would be struck down because the mandate is not a small inconsequential part of the 20,000 page bill--it is effectively the financial backbone of the bill. What the court is saying is that without the mandate, the bill is so financially irresponsible and unworkable---that it no longer represents anything remotely similar to what Congress voted on.
When you say there is a legislative fix----your right. It can be fixed legislatively---which is really all the judge is doing. He's saying you passed a bill that relies on something that is unconstitutional. The bill cannot function as reasonably intended without that financial underpinning of the mandate and likely would have never passed without that mandate---thus it is struck down in its entirety and its up to the legislative and executive branch to fix what they broke. He's simply saying this is not something the judicial branch can fix quickly by striking down just a small part of the bill and letting the rest stand. Striking that part down would gut the central premise of the bill and makes it unworkable.
RE: Future of ObamaCare in doubt after latest appeals court hearing - Kronke - 07-12-2019 03:05 AM
Everything solo has said in this thread is correct.